too much protein bad for you? -- but a twist...

[bigredlemon]

wait wait wait.... i haven't gone bonkers yet--hear me out.

A long long time ago, we weren't eating very much processed sugar, and thought it was healthy to do so. Sugar used to be a highly thought-after commodity. Now it's the devil people try to avoid.

Will the same happen with protein?--or more specifically, heavily processed protein like whey? As society discovers the benefits of a high protein diet, and the benefits of whey specifcally, it's likely that we could reach a stage where all the softdrinks are filled with whey, and it becomes the new sugar? People could over do the health benefits and be downing 1000 g of protein a day or something... almost exclusively from whey or other isolated proteins?

And what are the ramifications of a world like that... say in a 100 years from now?

[LIFT2beHUGE]

Its a thought, but I wouldn't worry about it - PROTEIN is the building block of muscle, we need it. But 'tis true the saying, "too much of anything can kill you" Only I think your stomach would burst and be the cause of death before overly abundant protein consumption.

[triplewhammy]

yeah, good try dude...

[Rokk]

You think too much.

[stabmaster]

Frisbeanism is the belief that when you die your soul goes on the roof and gets stuck.

[bigredlemon]

Originally posted by stabmaster
Frisbeanism is the belief that when you die your soul goes on the roof and gets stuck.

that sounds made-up

[Your Ad Here]

Your original point is off. There was never a time when sugar was though to be "good" and protein wasn't considered important. Protein in Latin means "first importance."

What's ironic is that people think dextrose is important. Dextrose is sugar. Plain old sugar. Nothing more.

[meathead198]

Originally posted by Your Ad Here
Your original point is off. There was never a time when sugar was though to be "good" and protein wasn't considered important. Protein in Latin means "first importance."

What's ironic is that people think dextrose is important. Dextrose is sugar. Plain old sugar. Nothing more.

I agree with the 1st paragraph, but dex is not normal sugar.

Sugar=Sucrose=1 glucose, 1 fructose
Dextrose= 2 glucose

[pu12en12g]

**** dextrose ! That's my opinion.

[meathead198]

Originally posted by pu12en12g
**** dextrose ! That's my opinion.

What? What do you have against dextrose? Its not exactly expensive.

[pu12en12g]

Originally posted by meathead198
What? What do you have against dextrose? Its not exactly expensive.

insulin response = good
insulin spike = bad

Spread the word:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=170643

http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=3235

I can't stress the importance of the PRE-workout meal too highly. Pre-workout nutrition is essential in keeping the body from entering into a catabolic state and then the need for a post workout insulin spike is diminished. By using carbs such as oatmeal post-workout, blood sugar increases at a steadier rate, and insulin levels stay somewhat stable. This then leads to a continuous anabolic period post-workout, even though anabolism takes a few more minutes to take place.

After years of training, I have come to the conclusion that the slight benefit from the insulin spike created by Malto/Dex post workout is not worth the tradeoff in fat accumulation.

The pattern of muscle glycogen synthesis following glycogen-depleting exercise occurs in two phases. Initially, there is a period of rapid synthesis of muscle glycogen that does not require the presence of insulin and lasts about 30-60 minutes... this is then followed by a slower insulin dependent rate of synthesis. this phase can last for several hours.

..glycogen synthesis can be enhanced with the addition of protein and certain amino acids. Furthermore, the combination of carbohydrate and protein has the added benefit of stimulating amino acid transport, protein synthesis and muscle tissue repair.

Carbohydrate nutrition before, during, and after exercise.

Costill DL.

The role of dietary carbohydrates (CHO) in the resynthesis of muscle and liver glycogen after prolonged, exhaustive exercise has been clearly demonstrated. The mechanisms responsible for optimal glycogen storage are linked to the activation of glycogen synthetase by depletion of glycogen and the subsequent intake of CHO. Although diets rich in CHO may increase the muscle glycogen stores and enhance endurance exercise performance when consumed in the days before the activity, they also increase the rate of CHO oxidation and the use of muscle glycogen. When consumed in the last hour before exercise, the insulin stimulated-uptake of glucose from blood often results in hypoglycemia, greater dependence on muscle glycogen, and an earlier onset of exhaustion than when no CHO is fed. Ingesting CHO during exercise appears to be of minimal value to performance except in events lasting 2 h or longer. The form of CHO [carbohydrate] (i.e., glucose, fructose, sucrose) ingested may produce different blood glucose and insulin responses, but the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis is about the same regardless of the structure.

Using tracer methods, insulin stimulates muscle protein synthesis in vitro, an effect not seen in vivo with physiological insulin concentrations in adult animals or humans.

Suggestions have been made that carbohydrate availability is the main limiting factor for glycogen synthesis. A large part of the ingested glucose that enters the bloodstream appears to be extracted by tissues other than the exercise muscle (i.e. liver, other muscle groups or fat tissue) and may therefore limit the amount of glucose available to maximise muscle glycogen synthesis rates.

Determinants of post-exercise glycogen synthesis during short-term recovery.

Jentjens R, Jeukendrup A. Human Performance Laboratory, School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.

Speed is not the key, in terms of glucose. There is no evidence sating that increased glycogen storage equals a greater rate of synthesis. In fact it states the opposite in that you can have a large quick spike or a slower spike and the rate stays the same. Its aminos that are the trigger and key to increased rate of synthesis, not insulin.

^^^^^ pre and post workout protein shake

Conventional thinking helped by numerous marketing ads tell us we need to replenish glycogen as fast as we can and we need to creat a large spike to accomplish this. They are totally wrong. They have zero studies supporting this. The studies they use say there is a greater glycogen replenishent (whic DOES NOT increase the RATE) with high GI and that is it. THey conclude in no way that the rate of protein synthesis is increased and just recently studies have shown that aminos, NOT insulin, are what triggers protein synthesis. THe point is that a large spike, or faster spike, is NOT needed.

Exercise induces sensitivity meaning that a lower GI carb will have a more pronounced insulin spike BECAUSE of the sensitivity. A high GI source will have the saem effect. Since there is an insulin INDEPENDENT stage and studies clearly show that not all glucose is being utlilized by the exercise (study clearly states that as well) the need for such a large spike is not needed. Insulin, even hyperinsulinemia, post exercise does not cause a significant increase in protein synthesis (study clearly states).

High G.I. carbs work great and most of what Berardi says is correct. But what he may not understand himself (as he is a writer first and a lifter second), is that low G.I. is the better choice, accomplishing the same goal (anabolism) while leaving rollercoaster ride of up and down blood sugar levels in the past.

[meathead198]

Ah, ithink we have had this conversation before

I have tried low and high GI post workout, and can't say I have noticed a difference either way.

[Danik]

High GI may be important to those who have problems eating throughout the day, since it isupposedly creates less of the sensation of fullness, and over a shorter period of time.

[bigredlemon]

i for one am glad some good came out of this thread

[ryanG]

yeah i've been told by several people i know that a lot of protein is bad for you....though funny thing is..they where all about 50lbs overweight and new nothing about diet and exerciese...go figure

[bigredlemon]

Originally posted by ryanG
yeah i've been told by several people i know that a lot of protein is bad for you....though funny thing is..they where all about 50lbs overweight and new nothing about diet and exerciese...go figure

too much protein is too bad for you... the million dollar question is how much

100g? 200g? 400g? 1000g? 5000g? 100,000?

[INsaNE_BB]

i have read somewhere, that too much protein putrifies in your intestines. so i believe that too much protein may not be good for intestinal health.

[stabmaster]

Originally posted by INsaNE_BB
i have read somewhere, that too much protein putrifies in your intestines. so i believe that too much protein may not be good for intestinal health.

what is putrifies? your intestinal lining regenerates every 1-3 days and nothing sticks, grows, or recirculates.

[Tiggis]

i have read somewhere, that too much protein putrifies in your intestines. so i believe that too much protein may not be good for intestinal health.

Uh no.

What you prob. read was that some red meat lays in your bowels for a period of time. The average American has about 2 pounds of it at 30. This is also highly questionable science. The idea was put out in 1985 by some swedish vegan. I will look for a link, but dont expect to find it.

Protein from sources like whey either get absorbed or get passed out.


Now can you OD on protein, sure.. you can OD on water.. but how much? .. Way more than anyone ever considers eating. Way Way more. But at some extreme level even protein will become toxic.. but as I said its prob in the realm of 50 grams per pound for a month or something.

[Kharnal]

In response to the middle of this thread:

Won't a high GI PW shake be stabilized by a PW meal 1 hour later?

And yes, I agree; high GI carbs will lead to crashes...which isn't good.