Calling Dr P on eGFR Results.

[tombstone3@cox.net]

Anyone with a medical degree please,

I have been training supplement-free now since December 28th and have only had moderate protein intake lately. My current weight is 180 pounds (lost 20 pounds in the last 5 months). My blood pressure is 128/70. I had a standard blood workup done and something came up wrong in my creatinine levels and eGFR results.

I don't have diabetes or any type of hypertension. I excercise regularly. Last year I ran a heavy course of bodybuilding supplements which included creatine, protein powder, tribulus, and 3 cycles of superdrol with all the supporting supps along with proper PCT with Tamoxifen.

Now, I do remember near the end of each SD cycle having some minor mid back-aches which subsided after the cycle. Could the SD have been hurting my kidneys? Just wanted to run this by the forum.

No Hemolysis detected.
No Lipemia detected.
No Icterus detected.

Sodium 142 MEQ/L (totally normal)

Gluscose 85 MG/DL (well within normal)

Calcium 9.8 MG/DL (normal and indicates normal kidney function is this area)

Potassium is 4.4 MEQ/L (which is normal and indicates no poor kidney function as it relates to this electrolyte)

Alkaline Phosphatase 116 U/L (normal range and indicates no problems either)

BUN is 15 MG/DL (again normal and indicates protein levels are normal, not high, which again indicates kidney function is normal for this reading)

BUN/Creatine Ratio is 10.0 (which is on the low end but still within normal parameters which should indicate decent kidney function)

The creatinine is at 1.5 mg/DL and the eGFR is at 57 ML/MIN/1.73M2. (normal score is 90-120, mine is 57).

Blood Colesterol levels are perfect scores.

The doctor didn't looked panicked but he asked me to come back in a month and re-test.

My total testosterone is 461 NG/DL, which is normal.

My Hematology was perfect across the board with all scores within normal range.

The eGFR score is worrying me though. Does anyone have any data on just what I can expect from a score of 57? I'm not having an easy time finding info on the web about it. It shows that the score is considered stage 3 in kidney condition for CDK (Chronic Kidney Disease). I don't want to jump the gun and think I have a serious problem but can a score of 57 be an abberration or a fluke? Or is it a sure sign that my kidneys aren't doing too well for a 34 year old?

[DRP7]

Anyone with a medical degree please,

I have been training supplement-free now since December 28th and have only had moderate protein intake lately. My current weight is 180 pounds (lost 20 pounds in the last 5 months). My blood pressure is 128/70. I had a standard blood workup done and something came up wrong in my creatinine levels and eGFR results.

I don't have diabetes or any type of hypertension. I excercise regularly. Last year I ran a heavy course of bodybuilding supplements which included creatine, protein powder, tribulus, and 3 cycles of superdrol with all the supporting supps along with proper PCT with Tamoxifen.

Now, I do remember near the end of each SD cycle having some minor mid back-aches which subsided after the cycle. Could the SD have been hurting my kidneys? Just wanted to run this by the forum.

No Hemolysis detected.
No Lipemia detected.
No Icterus detected.

Sodium 142 MEQ/L

Gluscose 85 MG/DL (well within normal)

Calcium 9.8 MG/DL (normal and indicates normal kidney function is this area)

Potassium is 4.4 MEQ/L (which is normal and indicates no poor kidney function as it relates to this electrolyte)

Alkaline Phosphatase 116 U/L (normal range and indicates no problems either)

BUN is 15 MG/DL (again normal and indicates protein levels are normal, not high, which again indicates kidney function is normal for this reading)

BUN/Creatine Ratio is 10.0 (which is on the low end but still within normal parameters which should indicate decent kidney function)

The creatinine is at 1.5 mg/DL and the eGFR is at 57 ML/MIN/1.73M2. (normal score is 90-120, mine is 57).

Blood Colesterol levels are perfect scores.

The doctor didn't looked panicked but he asked me to come back in a month and re-test.

My total testosterone is 461 NG/DL, which is normal.

My Hematology was perfect across the board with all scores within normal range.

The eGFR score is worrying me though. Does anyone have any data on just what I can expect from a score of 57? I'm not having an easy time finding info on the web about it. It shows that the score is considered stage 3 in kidney condition for CDK (Chronic Kidney Disease). I don't want to jump the gun and think I have a serious problem but can a score of 57 be an abberration or a fluke? Or is it a sure sign that my kidneys aren't doing too well for a 34 year old?

just repeat the test. no need to be extremely worried at the moment. I guess that eGFR= creatinin-clearence, right? did you have to collect your urine for 24 hours and to give a blood sample?
these creatinine-clearence tests can sometimes give false results, especially when urine collection is not 100% accurately done.

and yes, SD can affect kidney function, there was this paper last year that described a glomerulonephitis associated with SD consumption (I attached the pdf file). intersingly, if you google for superdrol + glomerulonephritis you will find quite a lot of anecdotal reports of kidney problems in SD users.

my advise is to redo the test and to switch to a very kidney-friendly nutrition / diet / supplementation. Even if your kidney function should be impaired, there are good chances that things will improve when you give your kidneys a chance to regenerate.

best regards

[Guard_Pass_old]

Dr. P is a good guy

[tombstone3@cox.net]

just repeat the test. no need to be extremely worried at the moment. I guess that eGFR= creatinin-clearence, right? did you have to collect your urine for 24 hours and to give a blood sample?
these creatinine-clearence tests can sometimes give false results, especially when urine collection is not 100% accurately done.

and yes, SD can affect kidney function, there was this paper last year that described a glomerulonephitis associated with SD consumption (I attached the pdf file). intersingly, if you google for superdrol + glomerulonephritis you will find quite a lot of anecdotal reports of kidney problems in SD users.

my advise is to redo the test and to switch to a very kidney-friendly nutrition / diet / supplementation. Even if your kidney function should be impaired, there are good chances that things will improve when you give your kidneys a chance to regenerate.

best regards

No, I didn't have to collect any urine. I suppose that will be the next thing my doc has me do if my results show the same next time around. The result I got was from a blood test alone and there is a lot more evaluation to come from what I've read on the web "if" I test the same 3 months in a row.

That's a relief. However, I can't say I ever remember an eGFR test being performed in my life so, I can't be sure this hasn't been a silent, on-going problem for years without symptoms. Remember, it took what normally is a routine test to catch this, but over the years I haven't gotten any tests done at all, so there is no way to know without a more complete testing history.

I hope you are right that kidney function can come improve, however I've been on a rather good diet now for nearly 6 months and that bears out in the fabulous results in all the other areas of the blood workup. Why wouldn't my kidneys have improved by now? That's why I'm kind of pessimistic about this. In my early 20's I did misuse over the counter ibuprofen and took it for years for the slightest aches. Now I feel like this could be my past ignorance of medication catching up to me. I know better now and research my intake of everything carefully.

My bet is the SD didn't likely cause it but rather helped it get a bit worse than it already was. I'm am in fine health otherwise and fit with a good diet so this likely shouldn't get worse.

[DRP7]

No, I didn't have to collect any urine. I suppose that will be the next thing my doc has me do if my results show the same next time around. The result I got was from a blood test alone and there is a lot more evaluation to come from what I've read on the web "if" I test the same 3 months in a row.

That's a relief. However, I can't say I ever remember an eGFR test being performed in my life so, I can't be sure this hasn't been a silent, on-going problem for years without symptoms. Remember, it took what normally is a routine test to catch this, but over the years I haven't gotten any tests done at all, so there is no way to know without a more complete testing history.

I hope you are right that kidney function can come improve, however I've been on a rather good diet now for nearly 6 months and that bears out in the fabulous results in all the other areas of the blood workup. Why wouldn't my kidneys have improved by now? That's why I'm kind of pessimistic about this. In my early 20's I did misuse over the counter ibuprofen and took it for years for the slightest aches. Now I feel like this could be my past ignorance of medication catching up to me. I know better now and research my intake of everything carefully.

My bet is the SD didn't likely cause it but rather helped it get a bit worse than it already was. I'm am in fine health otherwise and fit with a good diet so this likely shouldn't get worse.

you are right that it is almost impossible to catch the cause for the reduced GFR. in the case that the re-test should confirm the first test, you doc will surely do some additional test (e.g. ultrasound of the kidneys / MRI etc) in order to find the reason. but again: these GFR tests do sometimes give nonsense-results, so it could easily turn out that everything is fine.

PS: a "good" diet is not necessarily good for the kidneys. bodybuilders have usually very good diets, but overlaoded with proteins and other stuff that lets the kidneys work very hard.

[in10city]

tombstone3@cox.net, you were experimenting with sodium bicarbonate weren't you? That wouldn't have any influence would it?

[tombstone3@cox.net]

tombstone3@cox.net, you were experimenting with sodium bicarbonate weren't you? That wouldn't have any influence would it?

I haven't read anywhere of side effects of sodium bicarbonate. And I only went with that supplement for about 3 months before cutting out supplements altogether to clean out my system and go more natural for a while and losing excess fat. I was thinking about eventually rebulking cleanly with an anabolic like SD but now this test result has derailed that notion. My health is a hell of a lot more important than looking extra muscular. I hope this result is a fluke and things read out more normal so that I can go back to pursuing my goals.

[floridabrit]

Hi, I am a clinical scientist working in a reference clinical lab. eGFR is a new calcualted pararemter, used as only a guide and is not 100% accurate.

eGFR is an ESTIMATED glomerular filtration rate. It is NOT measured.

In clinical practice however, creatinine clearance is used to measure GFR. Creatinine is an endogenous molecule, synthesized in the body, which is freely filtered by the glomerulus (but also secreted by the renal tubules in very small amounts). Creatinine clearance is therefore a close approximation of the GFR. The GFR is typically recorded in milliliters per minute (ml/min).

Example: A person has a plasma creatinine concentration of 0.01 mg/ml and in 1 hour he excretes 75 mg of creatinine in the urine. The GFR is calculated as M/P (where M is the mass of creatinine excreted per unit time and P is the plasma concentration of creatinine).

GFR = 75mg/60 mins / 0.01 mg/ml

[tombstone3@cox.net]

Update!

Good news. A test this past week showed a creatinine of 1.0 instead of the old 1.5 and this leaves an egfr score of just over 90 which means it was a false alarm. My kidneys are functioning normally. A great relief.

For the past two months I've eaten more fresh vegatables and fruits and less protein and less red meat while consuming more tuna fish and chicken breast. A fantastic salad before dinner 4 times a week along with a trail mix of nuts and dried fruit as my daytime snack instead of the chocolate granola bars and potato chips I was snacking on intermittently like the cheater I am.

The earlier test result scared me into eating a very healthy diet and I have to admit I feel great now.

Okay, I laid off from the weight lifting for 7 months now and only have done light pushups, situps, and treadmill and not even consistently at that. The diet has been very healthy.

Now I want to get back into the gym but my lower back is still bothering me with pain. I was considering going to a p90x program to increase flexibility and athleticism before going back to deadlifts and squats. I just don't think it's a good idea to launch back into lifting full force if my back is still having stiffness and light aches.

What do you guys suggest I do to get back into lifting and protect my back while still getting strong results? Are there any old-timers in here with some advice? Is my idea on the p90x stretching/cardio/dumbell 90-day fitness routine a good start to help get my back feeling better before going back to deads and squats?

[B P Spin]

My kidneys are functioning normally. A great relief.

I can imagine, tombstone.

For the past two months I've eaten more fresh vegatables and fruits and less protein and less red meat while consuming more tuna fish and chicken breast.

Did you lose a lot of fat? I'm curious because I've drastically changed my
diet and I was expecting dramatic changes in energy and size of lovehandles.

I'm not familiar with p90x, but I am familiar with nagging injuries.
Stretching and light dumbbel work sounds like an excellent course of action.

For my back injuries, the best medicine was heat/ice therapy and massage.

[tombstone3@cox.net]

Did you lose a lot of fat? I'm curious because I've drastically changed my
diet and I was expecting dramatic changes in energy and size of lovehandles.

I lost a little fat. Mostlty lost muscle due to the lower protein intake. The touble spots like the pouch at the base of my belly and the love handles are still slightly hanging on. I'm losing fat mostly on my chest, rib-cage, arms and legs. I'm beginning to think I either need a velcro compression on the tummy/love handles to squeeze it tighter or I'll need liposuction if I want the perfect abs. Damn cursed genetics! How do these guys get six packs and no fat while staying muscular? I'm sure I would have still lost muscle even with elevated protein and if I kept lifting. I just would have lost less muscle. This won't stop me from trying but next time harder and smarter.

[Estopell]

Interesting thread. My eGFR came back 59. Caused me to search and I came upon this thread. I do have relatively controlled hypertension. I'm hoping I have the same luck you've had. Two questions, should I decrease protein intake and cut out creatine all together?

[IntensityX]

Dr. P is a good guy

Yeah but it's going to shock people when they find out he's really a dishwasher at Denny's j/k

[DRP7]

Yeah but it's going to shock people when they find out he's really a dishwasher at Denny's j/k

haha. lol.

but seriously, I have said it so often: never trust anybody at the internet. regardless whether he is an alleged noble prize winner or a supposed "dishwasher".

P.S: who is "Denny"?

[IntensityX]

haha. lol.

but seriously, I have said it so often: never trust anybody at the internet. regardless whether he is an alleged noble prize winner or a supposed "dishwasher".

P.S: who is "Denny"?

You never eaten there before

[DRP7]

You never eaten there before

unforunately not. I live in Europe and I suppose that there is no Danny's, right? I mean, we have McDonalds, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, and Starbucks, but I have never seen a "Danny".

EDIT: But for your information: When I was in school (8th grade) I actually used to work as a dishwasher in a fiver-star hotel in order to improve my pocket-money.

[steve_81]

unforunately not. I live in Europe and I suppose that there is no Danny's, right? I mean, we have McDonalds, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, and Starbucks, but I have never seen a "Danny".

EDIT: But for your information: When I was in school (8th grade) I actually used to work as a dishwasher in a fiver-star hotel in order to improve my pocket-money.

Are you really an MD?

[IntensityX]

unforunately not. I live in Europe and I suppose that there is no Danny's, right? I mean, we have McDonalds, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, and Starbucks, but I have never seen a "Danny".

EDIT: But for your information: When I was in school (8th grade) I actually used to work as a dishwasher in a fiver-star hotel in order to improve my pocket-money.

Ah ok didn't know you were in Europe well it's a very big restaurant chain here in the states famous for their grand slam breakfasts but you can order breakfast,lunch and dinner anytime(open 24/7).

[DRP7]

Are you really an MD?

I refuse (and always have refused) to answer this question because it doesn't matter. at an anonymous internet forum you can never trust anybody, regardless whether he is a real MD or a dishwasher.

never trust people you don't know personally.

[steve_81]

I refuse (and always have refused) to answer this question because it doesn't matter. at an anonymous internet forum you can never trust anybody, regardless whether he is a real MD or a dishwasher.

never trust people you don't know personally.

I'll take that as a no.




J\K!

[DRP7]

I'll take that as a no.




J\K!

take it as whatever you like.

the only thing that counts are the peoples' statements. check them if they are logical, coherent and in accordance to professional state-of-the-art. people's statements do tell more about the person than the person could ever tell about itself.