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  1. #1
    Deltology Graduate niceasey's Avatar
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    Barbell squats and Dorian Yates

    I read today that yates didn't do BB squats from 1986 onwards due to a hip injury.

    As one of his alternatives he did smith machine squats!

    I've read a lot of articles by Pro's recentrly and they all seem to use the smith machine for something or other but the general opinion on here is that it's not a good idea.

    Why?
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  2. #2
    Banned hyp3r3xt3nsion's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Five
    The difference between the smith machine and a free weight bench press is significant in terms of overall gains. There are several important neurological factors at play here:

    balance proprioception: In every exercise you do there is an element of balance, or to put it more technically a feedback loop that constantly adjusts recruitment of agonist, antagonist and synergists in order to maintain the desired output. This is a facet of the CNS, so it's centrally controlled and can be improved by using primarily free weight exercises, and even more so by using CKCE exercise, closed kinetic chain exercises. Squats on the smith machine would be a very seriously bad idea, as squatting is THE exercise which improves balance proprioception to the greatest extent. For bench press it's less of a concern, but it's still a concern.
    Other than the effect on the CNS, the fact is that using EMG study and simply common sense, a free weight bench press recruits more muscle fibres it's as simple as that. The body does not and cannot hypertrophy on the scale of an individual muscle, the synergists of that muscle must also hypertrophy or the body would be in a constant state of imbalance and injury.

    force proprioception: force proprioception is another attribute that operates both peripherally and centrally, and boils down to this, how heavy does an exercise feel and in what is the specific adaption required to deal with that force? Many people erroneously think that the squat is the king of exercises because of hormone release, which obviously is completely wrong, the actual amount or change in hormone release whilst squatting is insignificant. If you want to release a lot of test go to bed, if you want to release a lot of GH go do some endurance training. The real power of squatting is that as a load bearing exercise is has an extremely strong effect on the force proprioception of the CNS.
    Although you may be able to apply a RPE (rating of percieved effort) of 100% to both smith bench and free weight bench, or in other words you will be pushing with everything you have for both exercises. The actual response of the body will be quite different given the demands of the exercise. It just isn't true that load is load is load no matter what the source is, the body can tell a cable from a free weight from a machine.

    In terms of injury I don't believe that it matters, it's not WHAT you do it's HOW you do it that determines injury rates. The body can adapt to cope with almost anything.
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  3. #3
    Banned Barchetta's Avatar
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    Re: Barbell squats and Dorian Yates

    Originally posted by niceasey
    I read today that yates didn't do BB squats from 1986 onwards due to a hip injury.

    As one of his alternatives he did smith machine squats!

    I've read a lot of articles by Pro's recentrly and they all seem to use the smith machine for something or other but the general opinion on here is that it's not a good idea.

    Why?
    Because pro bbers for the most part are very nonfunctional(weak). Do you want to be nonfunctional?
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  4. #4
    Banned hyp3r3xt3nsion's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Barbell squats and Dorian Yates

    Originally posted by Barchetta
    Because pro bbers for the most part are very nonfunctional(weak). Do you want to be nonfunctional?
    peek-a-boo- i see you Henry
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  5. #5
    Sleepy moderator scott_donald's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Barbell squats and Dorian Yates

    Originally posted by hyp3r3xt3nsion
    peek-a-boo- i see you Henry
    hehe...

    thats a great post by five.. i would have said the same in about 20 words...
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  6. #6
    Squats traps to grass Defiant1's Avatar
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    The pros have MAJOR concerns about tendon/ligament injuries due to the type/amount of drugs they use. The muscle basically out strips the tendon/ligament strength; while the drugs make the tendons/ligaments weaker.

    I think this explains their exercise choice a lot.
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  7. #7
    Banned hyp3r3xt3nsion's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Defiant1
    The pros have MAJOR concerns about tendon/ligament injuries due to the type/amount of drugs they use. The muscle basically out strips the tendon/ligament strength; while the drugs make the tendons/ligaments weaker.

    I think this explains their exercise choice a lot.

    that, plus it's cool to load up like 10+ plates on a machine for a photo shoot
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  8. #8
    Banned Barchetta's Avatar
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    Originally posted by hyp3r3xt3nsion
    that, plus it's cool to load up like 10+ plates on a machine for a photo shoot
    Not all made of iron
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  9. #9
    Banned Barchetta's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Defiant1
    The pros have MAJOR concerns about tendon/ligament injuries due to the type/amount of drugs they use. The muscle basically out strips the tendon/ligament strength; while the drugs make the tendons/ligaments weaker.

    I think this explains their exercise choice a lot.
    Bingo!!!!!!!!!
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  10. #10
    <3 Tea Zensuji's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Barchetta
    Not all made of iron
    lol
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  11. #11
    Registered User JamesBarlow's Avatar
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    Re: Barbell squats and Dorian Yates

    Originally posted by niceasey
    I've read a lot of articles by Pro's recentrly and they all seem to use the smith machine for something or other but the general opinion on here is that it's not a good idea.
    Emphasis on "HERE".

    Go to another site and you'll get another opinion.

    The real funny part is everyone thinks there right even though they disagree.

    Smith squats worked for him, along with many other non-pros. Try them and decided for yourself.
    "Pain is a state of MIND -
    - Mass is a state of BEING"
    This one is my own.
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  12. #12
    Trying to defy gravity typicalmale1978's Avatar
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    It all depends on what you feel works the best for you. Don't let others tell you how to workout if you feel these things work for you. It all takes time to figure out what's good and bad for you.. trial and error... in my case I was born with a spinal defect which when I squat down even without weight it's impossible for my back to stay straight or I will fall over backwards as funny as it sounds... the smith machine is a godsend for me..
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  13. #13
    Banned hyp3r3xt3nsion's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Barchetta
    Not all made of iron
    heh
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  14. #14
    Banned Barchetta's Avatar
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    Originally posted by hyp3r3xt3nsion
    heh
    Shhhhhhhhhhh.....don't tell you know who. His ego can't take it.
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