What's the deal with my calorie intake??

[ZXman]

I've been lifting for years, and have tried to watch what I eat, but never counted calories or anthing like that. I haven't been making the progress that I've wanted- I seem to gain fat easily and lose muscle easily and can't cut down without losing muscle and remaining the same shape.

So lately I've begun counting calories and measuring all my meals, trying to eat 6 meals per day. My plan was to cut down by eating 500 calories less than my maintenance level. I'm 5'10, about 180 lbs and it says I need 2924 calories a day to maintain my weight and 2424 calories to cut down.

Here's the really weird part- With my new "cutting" diet plan, I am eating WAYY more than I was before. I counted the calories of the usual food that I was eating, and I was only taking in about 1500 calories per day, if that. I used to eat 3 or 4 small meals a day and I'd feel pretty full. Now I'm focusing on eating 6 times a day, with each meal being about 400 calories. Problem is that by the 2nd meal, I'm not even hungry and I have to stuff the food down. 3rd meal is even harder. I don't think I've eaten this much food in a LONG time. If I wasn't counting calories I'd never think of eating this much!

So what's the deal? How come I was maintaining my weight on under 1500 calories a day, even while running, and now when I want to "cut" I'm eating much more than I ever have, almost 1000 cals a day more? I can't even eat my last meal of the day, I'm stuffed after have eaten about 2000 calories today, 900 below my "supposed" maintenance level.

Is this normal? Has anyone else encountered something similar?

[Squatman]

Don't jump straight from 1500 calories to 2500. Slowly increase your intake by 100-200 calories a week. You have to give your body time to adjust.

[Strieder]

Eating 1500 cals a day you were probably starving yourself, and causing your body to store fat.. thats what happened to me (used to eat a lot less than I do now, and I weighed a lot more)

[Nainoa]

I'm 90% sure that you are wrong about the 1500 calories! 1500 cals is nothing, for a grown man... Who's getting exercise... You would have wasted away.

So I'm sure you mis-calculated... If not give me a sample of a day of what you ate in a day on the 1500 cals.

It does take a while to get your body and digestive system used to eating multiple meals... Heck it took me a little over 4 months to truly get used to eating 7-8 meals a day... So do it gradually.

And food compostion makes a big difference... A stomach full of peanut butter and a stomach full of Jello, while feeling like the same volume have a SUPER MASSIVE calorie difference.

[Nainoa]

I'm 90% sure that you are wrong about the 1500 calories! 1500 cals is nothing, for a grown man... Who's getting exercise... You would have wasted away.

So I'm sure you mis-calculated... If not give me a sample of a day of what you ate in a day on the 1500 cals.

It does take a while to get your body and digestive system used to eating multiple meals... Heck it took me a little over 4 months to truly get used to eating 7-8 meals a day... So do it gradually.

And food compostion makes a big difference... A stomach full of peanut butter and a stomach full of Jello, while feeling like the same volume have a SUPER MASSIVE calorie difference.

[ZXman]

Originally posted by Nainoa
I'm 90% sure that you are wrong about the 1500 calories! 1500 cals is nothing, for a grown man... Who's getting exercise... You would have wasted away.

So I'm sure you mis-calculated... If not give me a sample of a day of what you ate in a day on the 1500 cals.

It does take a while to get your body and digestive system used to eating multiple meals... Heck it took me a little over 4 months to truly get used to eating 7-8 meals a day... So do it gradually.

And food compostion makes a big difference... A stomach full of peanut butter and a stomach full of Jello, while feeling like the same volume have a SUPER MASSIVE calorie difference.

I'm pretty sure I'm accurate on my numbers. Here's an example:

One day last week I had a bowl of oatmeal when I got up (245 calories, I had another bowl of oatmeal for lunch (245 calories), I had chicken and rice for dinner (400 calories) and then a snack later on at night of leftover chicken and rice (400 calories). So for that day I had 1290 calories. This is about a normal day for me. On another day during the week last week, there was nothing good to eat here so I had oatmeal all day, breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snack. Also had 2 scoops of protein powder. That's a about 1200 cals. On most days my diet is like this. I don't eat sugar or pasta (because I'll most likely fall asleep 20 mins later), and I don't eat too much fat either.

I also need lots of sleep, 8-10 hours a day. I had 9.5 last night.

As I said, I definitely was not mis-counting my calories, because for the past 2 days when I have been *trying* to eat 2400 calories a day, I just can't. It's too much food and I feel overstuffed all day. I failed last night, I could only fit in 5 of the 6 meals in, so about 2000 calories and I was feeling STUFFED.

[ZXman]

Originally posted by Strieder
Eating 1500 cals a day you were probably starving yourself, and causing your body to store fat.. thats what happened to me (used to eat a lot less than I do now, and I weighed a lot more)

That must be what's happening. Because I'm trying to eat an amount of food that's considered a "cutting" amount, and I just can't do it- it's too much food.

I struggled to take down 2000 calories yesterday, and I failed to get down 2400. There is no way that I can eat 2900 calories a day, let alone the 3400 calories that would be considered a bulking amount. The type of food I'm eating isn't any different, I've been eating clean foods for the past couple of years, but the amount and frequency of each meal was different.

Each 400 calorie meal that I'm eating is what I'd consider a very large meal, and I only used to eat 3 or 4 of those meals before.

[ZXman]

Damn, I'm having even more trouble eating all those calories today. I'll have to work my way up there.

[CalyxRai]

I always wondered, after frequenting this board, why people said to gradually up or cut your calories. When I first started doing CKD about 11 weeks back and eating 6 meals a day, I did have trouble but now I have no trouble housing down the food.

Does it cause you to gain fat changing your caloric intake drastically at once (if increasing cal's)? According to Harris-Benedict I should be taking in 2923-3253 (either 1.55 or 1.725 against my BMR of 1885.8) and that seemed alot - until this week I was ingesting roughly 2200 cals a day. So I as well was not seeing the ripped physique I wanted (approx 12% Bf) so hopefully this will do the trick - upping my cal's some....

Rai //
www.FarewellRadiance.com

[ZXman]

I don't get it... today I tried to stick to my recommended amount, and I just can't do it. At 1800 calories I'm full and dont' want to eat anymore.

How the hell am I supposed to LOSE weight stuffing my face eating 2400 calories when before I had trouble maintaining my weight eating 1500 calories a day?

How do these "experts" know what my metabolism is supposed to be like? Isn't it entirely possible that my natural metabolism is much slower than average and that I can't eat as much as a normal person without getting fat?

[CalyxRai]

Originally posted by ZXman
I don't get it... today I tried to stick to my recommended amount, and I just can't do it. At 1800 calories I'm full and dont' want to eat anymore.

How the hell am I supposed to LOSE weight stuffing my face eating 2400 calories when before I had trouble maintaining my weight eating 1500 calories a day?

This may not be the best analogy so bear w me lol ...but think of your body as an engine. Btwn this rpm range (lowest point of range) and this rpm (highest point of range), you car runs incredible - all parts are in sync, you're burning fuel at the most efficient rate the engine will allow. Sure it'll run fine before x rpm and fine after - but it runs best at x designated range.

It's kinda like that w your body - it works, burns fuel most efficiently btwn x calorie and y calorie (highest and lowest) -going back to the egine analogy, stray from this range and you don't burn fuel as efficient, or your car doesn't burn enough fuel to keep up w the fuel you are putting in. Hope it helps and just didn't confuse lol....good luck man and try gradually increasing your calorie intake (at least that is what I have read on these boards).

Rai //
www.FarewellRadiance.com

[as0l0]

Originally posted by ZXman
Each 400 calorie meal that I'm eating is what I'd consider a very large meal, and I only used to eat 3 or 4 of those meals before.

can you please provide details / descriptions of two or three of your 400 cal meals? you should include the food type and the weight/measure.

it may be that your having an issue counting cals.

[CalyxRai]

Question (not to hijack the thread) - is it important if the claroic intake each meal is roughly the same? I focus mainly on if i'm getting enough grams of what I need (P,F,C) and making sure my ratios are where I want them at.

Rai //
www.FarewellRadiance.com

[ZXman]

Originally posted by as0l0
can you please provide details / descriptions of two or three of your 400 cal meals? you should include the food type and the weight/measure.

it may be that your having an issue counting cals.

I cleaned up my eating a couple of years ago and don't eat foods with lots of sugar. I like to keep things very simple.

I ate my typical meal of chicken, brown rice, and broccoli. I always ate that anyway so I figured I'd keep doing it.

This week I have been measuring the amounts I ate, and I used 1 cup of brown rice, 4 oz of chicken breast, and 1 cup of broccoli. I never use sause or salt/pepper, never have so I have no reason to start. Just by looking at the food on my plate and by *trying* to eat it, it's more than obvious that this is much more than I'm used to eating. The food I ate hasn't changed, the proportions have. I cannot eat 1 cup of rice, 4 oz of chicken and 1 cup of broccoli at one sitting. That would be the typical dinner.

My typical breakfast/lunch would be a packet of quaker oats oatmeal with a 1/4 cup of old fashioned quaker oats. Can't really go wrong there. I'd always eat this in the morning and again at lunch.

So the portion size is larger now, and I eat those portions more often, 6 times now compared to 3 or 4 times before.

[ZXman]

With this day over, I can tell you what I ate today.

Wake up, breakfast- 1 baggie of quaker oats, 1/4 cup quaker old fashioned oats, 1/4 cup milk in it, 1 scoop protein powder- 401 calories

second meal, lunch- 4 oz chicken, 1 cup brown rice, 1 cup broccoli. 418 calories

In between, I have an extra 4 oz piece of chicken I have left over from cooking- 200 calories

third meal, dinner- same thing as lunch (I boxed them up yesterday) 4 oz chicken, 1 cup brown rice, 1 cup broccoli- 418 calories.

I go to the gym, work out and then have a protein shake with protein powder which they say has 400 calories.

Now I get home and I'm ready to sleep. Today's total is 401 + 418 + 200 + 418 + 400= 1837 calories, and I'm full and ready to sleep.

I ate more than I'm used to eating, but it's still considerably lower than what it's supposed to be.

[rycbaby]

Just add more calorie densed foods into your diet...For instance, 2 tbsp of PB will give you close to 200 extra calories...Or better yet, munch on a couple of handfuls of nuts...They are good for you plus, it takes longer to get full off of nuts than PB (imo)...So that will really rack up your calories there.

[Squatman]

I'll repeat again, slowly increase your intake over a few weeks.

If you've been eating small portions and small amounts, your body gets used to it. Although the physical size of your stomach doesn't change, the amount it effectively holds does. If you have been feeding it small amounts, when you eat it will be expecting that amount and you will full once you eat that much. This is why you feel so full and think that you can't possibly eat over 2000 calories.

If you gradually increase the amount you eat, the stomach will start to get used to the larger anounts. You will eventually get to the point where your body will be looking for 2000 calories and anything less will make you feel hungry. But it doesn't happen overnight.

It's like if you've been benching 180lbs for the last 6 months and then one day you decide you're going to bench 200. It ain't gonna happen. But if you increase your weight by 5 lbs every week to get to 200, it's much more realistic.

[Nainoa]

Okay... I'm going to throw in a different analogy... No offense to the Engine Analogy.. I got the jist of it, but I already knew what you were saying, otherwise, the wording would have confused me...

Think of your body as a wood stove... The fire in the wood stove is you metabolism... The foods you put in you is the wood.

There are all kinds of wood... Wet wood with high fats, Moldy wood, like Junk food... Big Logs like huge meals, and small sticks like healthy snacks of cottage cheese, or a can of tuna.

For years now your body has gotten used to you simply tossing three big logs in each day, onto a small fire... Thus it takes those logs forever to actually burn... So when you go to put Log number two in, Log Number one is still in their smoldering.

You get left with chunks that are only slightly burned, that sit in the back of the wood stove, and go unburned (Turning into fat)

What you need to do, is stop eating 3 logs... Instead, eat 6-8 bundles of kindling/sticks... It burns hotter, it burns faster... So when you go to put the next couple bundles of sticks in, there's plenty of room. And there's nothing un-burned... Thus no fat to store... Thus your workout, and daily cal expenditures are reducing your fat level.

Now the best way to keep your wood stove burning, without having to re-light it, is to build up a good coal bed, of embers that sit in their ready to roar to life and spark up a new fire, when the sticks are put in. Getting used to this style of eating, is what builds the coal bed. And it takes time for a coal bed to build up...

I hope that made sense?

*But I still think there's something wrong with your calorie calculation somewhere along the line... I mean 1500 calories is what 130 pound women who are doing cardio put in to lose fat. If you have been putting only 1500 cals in per day, your body must be just chowing on your muscle tissue like a lion eating a wounded gazelle.
I mean I put in 1500 calories by the end of Lunch! 3800-4000 daily, and I still have a 4 pack... Granted my BMR is a lot higher. But still.

Hope that helped

Nainoa

[ZXman]

Total for today came to a little over 1800 calories. I checked, re-checked, measured, re-measured... I am 100% certain that I counted right.

I can only finish 4 meals, I can't eat the full 6. Too much food.

[Nainoa]

It's going to take time to get your body used to it... You've been in starvation mode for a really long time...

It's like guys that go on a Fast... If they stop fasting and suddenly eat a Whopper, they get bloated, sick, and puke.

There's a part of the brain/process... I can't remember what it's called off hand... But it controls your feelings of hunger... Often times it's the thing that's off kilter with people who have an eating disorder... It takes time to reprogram your brain to eat properly, and be hungry accordingly.

To get your cals up, try some calorically dense foods... Such as a Natty Peanut Butter sandwhich.

Bottomline you've got to power up your digestive system, and metabolic mechanics... Your metabolism is so slow because you've essentially been starving yourself.

I wouldn't doubt that your choice to "Eat Healthier" way back when, and your subsequent super low cal lifestyle is in someway related to the early symptoms of an eating disorder, or a body dismorphic disorder.

Not saying that you have a disorder... I'm just saying that there's probably a common factor, between your mind-metabolism connection and those disorders etc...

Just keep working on stoking up that metabolic fire, and little by little you'll get your body out of starvation mode... So your body will stop storing fat, thinking you're in a famine... You'll probably actually have to put on some fat on the way to an efficient/healthy metabolism... But then the principles of Caloric deficit will apply, and you'll be able to cut down.

Regardless if you're bloated at 1500-1800 cals... You won't be able to truly "Cut". You just can't feasibly go down to like 1000 cals... Heck my friend who's 5'1" weighs 98 pounds, eats 1200+ cals, and does cardio!

[ShadowRydr]

Might I ask a question? How old are you?

Age, I am finding as i grow older (43) now, plays for me at least, a significant difference in the amount of calories I require to maintain my weight and musculature. It seems to be decreasing each year. The older you are, the slower your metabolism becomes, fact of nature I beleive.

[Nainoa]

Good point... But a slower metabolism due to age is going to show up more in sedentary people than active people who work out...
But I totally concur that age could play a factor... I merely assumed that ZXman was in his 20's.

Though even my 66 year old sedentary father (Who walks 3 miles a day) is dropping fat on a 2100 calorie diet. Granted he's currently 6'2" and weighs 208 pounds down from 230 pounds 1.5 years ago... So there shouldn't be a 300 cal difference between someone who I'm assuming is in their 20's, 2 inches shorter and 20+ pounds lighter.

For me, as I've gotten older, and more fit, my cal levels now are higher than they were when I was growing like mad and working out for football and track at 13-15...

I noticed an easier tendency to build up fat around 25... But otherwise I think you've got to get into your 30's before you start seeing a massive swing?

[ZXman]

Thanks for the input guys. I think you're right that I have to eat more food, more often to get my metabolism back in line.

I'm 28, btw.

[Nainoa]

Yeah Bro... I think you've just got to try to up the number of meals, in small portions... Get to six or so a day... Then try to up the cals of those meals a little... Then to seven a day... etc...

Eventually you'll hit a point where you'll just feel your metabolism get "Jacked UP!" I mean you'll notice... For me it was like a light switch being flicked.

But yeah... I mean I'm not THAT much bigger than you, I turn 28 in 29 days... And twice the cals it takes you to feel bloated, is barely above my maintence level! (3300-3400)

Id reccomend calorically dense snacks, like some peanuts etc... Having skim milk with every meal... And a Can of tuna, is good lean protein, and a small enough portion size that it should be manageable!

Good Luck Bro!

[Nainoa]

Yeah Bro... I think you've just got to try to up the number of meals, in small portions... Get to six or so a day... Then try to up the cals of those meals a little... Then to seven a day... etc...

Eventually you'll hit a point where you'll just feel your metabolism get "Jacked UP!" I mean you'll notice... For me it was like a light switch being flicked.

But yeah... I mean I'm not THAT much bigger than you, I turn 28 in 29 days... And twice the cals it takes you to feel bloated, is barely above my maintence level! (3300-3400)

Id reccomend calorically dense snacks, like some peanuts etc... Having skim milk with every meal... And a Can of tuna, is good lean protein, and a small enough portion size that it should be manageable!

Good Luck Bro!