What routine for cutting? Easy answer!

[RipStone]

As we all know, the weather is hot, the beaches are open and we all want to look good. So inevitably, shedding some fat to look our best is a goal this time of year. Great! Or not so much....

I have seen so many threads asking pretty much the same thing--"What routine is best for cutting?"--that it is driving me nuts, haha Why? Cutting is mainly a function of diet, not altering your workout program. Let me say that again...

WHEN YOU CUT, CHANGE YOUR DIET, NOT YOUR TRAINING PROGRAM.

Granted, though that your training program is already working well for YOU (ie; adding weight to the bar on a consistent basis) there is very little reason to change your training routine.

[quickups]

Cool! Thanks for the info!

[jwright715]

The title of this thread should be in capital letters and ALWAYS on the first page. It would cut down on forum clogging threads, and makes Rip's job of moderating here much more manageable.

[RipStone]

Bump

[just_ace]

so if your bulking and your routine doesnt involve cardio, you would not add cardio to your training routine aswell as dieting, when cutting?

[RipStone]

Originally Posted by just_ace

so if your bulking and your routine doesnt involve cardio, you would not add cardio to your training routine aswell as dieting, when cutting?

No, I did not say that.

I am talking about your lifting routine. Keep your lifting routine pretty much the same while cutting. If anything, maybe lower the volume a tad.

It's fine to add some cardio though.

[RipStone]

mod bump

[MATT 022206]

you dont think bumping your own unpopular thread 2 times is a little excessive??

BUt when im cutting I like to throw in exercises liek 21's and thing that I will use lighter weight with but I will get more of a cardivascular benefit out of it.

[verbatim9]

Also adding some isolation exercises for improving muscle separation wouldn't be bad.

[ThickAsABrick]

Originally Posted by RipStone

If anything, maybe lower the volume a tad.

Some actually tend to add more volume, almost like it was GPP.
More work = more calories burned, with less cardio = less of a chance of losing muscle (for natty guys)

[ThickAsABrick]

Additionally, other natty guys I know increase intensity when cutting because they say that they're less likely to lose size when they're still moving heavy weights (see JLC's old comp journal).

Point is, some guys that compete do change their routines when cutting.

Does the avg joe who doesn't need his BF levels low enough to step on stage need to change much?
Guess it depends on body type and how lean you want to be.
I'm sure there are guys more experienced/knowledgeable than I am in this area that could weigh in.

[shiner_man]

I'm sorry but not changing your workout routine for a cut just doesn't make sense especially in my case. Do you think doing a 5x5 with 3 minutes rest between each set is going to burn as many calories as a high intensity or high volume program?

[r_graz]

Originally Posted by shiner_man

I'm sorry but not changing your workout routine for a cut just doesn't make sense especially in my case. Do you think doing a 5x5 with 3 minutes rest between each set is going to burn as many calories as a high intensity or high volume program?

I don't think the point of the original post was to try to get you to burn more calories through your lifting. The assumption is that you've reduced calories in your diet, and possibly (probably) added or upped your cardio levels to burn the calories. I think the idea with not changing your lifting program is to keep the strength and muscle under the fat you're trying to burn.

Maintaining (or even upping) the intensity to encourage the muscle and strength to stick around, while possibly lowering the volume so you can handle it while in a caloric deficit, makes some sense.

The competitive bodybuilder may have to go to greater lengths due to their very, very low BF requirements, but for the average lifter trying to drop some fat I don't see how this is a bad plan.

[shiner_man]

Originally Posted by r_graz

I don't think the point of the original post was to try to get you to burn more calories through your lifting. The assumption is that you've reduced calories in your diet, and possibly (probably) added or upped your cardio levels to burn the calories. I think the idea with not changing your lifting program is to keep the strength and muscle under the fat you're trying to burn.

Maintaining (or even upping) the intensity to encourage the muscle and strength to stick around, while possibly lowering the volume so you can handle it while in a caloric deficit, makes some sense.

The competitive bodybuilder may have to go to greater lengths due to their very, very low BF requirements, but for the average lifter trying to drop some fat I don't see how this is a bad plan.

Well I agree with this in theory so I guess I will stick with my current 5x5 for this cut. The only thing I'm worried about is increasing the weight week by week. I think I may find it harder to do so with a caloric/carb deficit but I'll do it anyway and see how it goes.

[r_graz]

Originally Posted by shiner_man

Well I agree with this in theory so I guess I will stick with my current 5x5 for this cut. The only thing I'm worried about is increasing the weight week by week. I think I may find it harder to do so with a caloric/carb deficit but I'll do it anyway and see how it goes.

You most likely *will* find it harder to increase the weight. If you're doing madcow2's Bill Starr Int. 5x5, you'll see in the write-up that he says (paraphrased) that bulking acts as a tailwind to weight progression, and cutting acts as a headwind.

I've been on a caloric deficit for about 2.5 months now, and I can tell you that strength gains are much, much harder to come by. Don't expect to get a lot stronger while you're at a significant caloric deficit, but do what you can to maintain the strength you have.

[romeyjdogg]

Originally Posted by MATT 022206

you dont think bumping your own unpopular thread 2 times is a little excessive??

BUt when im cutting I like to throw in exercises liek 21's and thing that I will use lighter weight with but I will get more of a cardivascular benefit out of it.

No, its not excessive man, chill out. Mods should do more things like this so clueless people will finally realize cutting doesn't call for the "light weight and high reps" chant. How many calories do you think doing 21's is going to burn, not many I would say If you want to do a high rep "cardio" lift, go with high rep deads or squats. If you really want to burn cals, thats what cardio is for.

Originally Posted by verbatim9

Also adding some isolation exercises for improving muscle separation wouldn't be bad.

Isolation exercises don't "seperate" anything. This is the same song and dance as high reps, low weight. The whole point of this thread is to show that you don't need to do anything with your routine! You want to continue adding weight to the lifts, in addition to diet change, and cardio if you need, that's it.

Originally Posted by ThickAsABrick

Some actually tend to add more volume, almost like it was GPP.
More work = more calories burned, with less cardio = less of a chance of losing muscle (for natty guys)

The point is that when you are in a caloric deficit, you probably won't be able to move more tonnage. I guess I hear what you're saying, but it doesn't sound like the best choice to me. Moderate intensity cardio seems like it would sacrific less muscle if the diet and timing was correct. Interesting approach though

[romeyjdogg]

Originally Posted by shiner_man

I'm sorry but not changing your workout routine for a cut just doesn't make sense especially in my case. Do you think doing a 5x5 with 3 minutes rest between each set is going to burn as many calories as a high intensity or high volume program?

You burn those calories with cardio, not with your strength program. How many people strength train for cardio...probably not many. As I said above, the more you are in a calorie deficit, the less energy you have, thus the harder it will be to do a high volume program, like you suggested

[ThickAsABrick]

The fact still remains that many people change their routines when cutting.
Depending on the scenario, it can be a viable option.
It isn't black and white enough to say "do" or "don't."
Body type plays a huge role.

[romeyjdogg]

Originally Posted by ThickAsABrick

The fact still remains that many people change their routines when cutting.
Depending on the scenario, it can be a viable option.
It isn't black and white enough to say "do" or "don't."
Body type plays a huge role.

Just because some people change doesn't mean that they wouldn't have a successful cut if they didn't change their routine.

Guys who do need to change know exactly what they need to do because they will be at a much higher level than the trainee who doesn't know the first thing about a cut, except with his "strong" frat brother told him

[Dave76]

Originally Posted by romeyjdogg

You burn those calories with cardio, not with your strength program. How many people strength train for cardio...probably not many. As I said above, the more you are in a calorie deficit, the less energy you have, thus the harder it will be to do a high volume program, like you suggested

Good points. This thread is intended to dispel those myths. Weight training is not intended to directly burn calories. That's what the cardio does.

On a cut, weight training is intended to try to maintain your muscle mass. When you maintain the muscle mass, your metabolism stays up. The higher metabolism helps to keep burning calories. Weight training burns the calories in an indirect way.

[romeyjdogg]

Originally Posted by Dave76

Good points. This thread is intended to dispel those myths. Weight training is not intended to directly burn calories. That's what the cardio does.

On a cut, weight training is intended to try to maintain your muscle mass. When you maintain the muscle mass, your metabolism stays up. The higher metabolism helps to keep burning calories. Weight training burns the calories in an indirect way.

Amen, good follow up

[ThickAsABrick]

How many people in this thread have actually done a serious cut and gotten the results they were after?

[GoJu]

I agree with both ThickasBrick and Ripstone, I don't really think it's necessary to change your routine for a cut (depends on the severity) I also don't think it's necessary to lower volume either, TAB was right IMO when he said more work = more calories burned. And of course Ripstone was obviously right when he said if you're going to go on a cut all that really needs a change is diet, the only thing I would change about my routine really might be shorter rest periods between sets and exercises and making scheduling adjustments for extra cardio (something I'm working on doing now).

[Dave76]

Originally Posted by ThickAsABrick

How many people in this thread have actually done a serious cut and gotten the results they were after?

*raises hand*

Not that my results would be acceptable to you! But for what I was after, I was happy.

[porterror]

Over the past 2.5 months i've gone from:

Height: 6'
Weight: 200
Bodyfat: Omicron (26%) - Calipers 6-point (29%)

to

Height: 6'
Weight: 184
Bodyfat: Omircron (16%) - Calipers (20%)

All I did was lower my caloric intake by around 600 and added in jogging/HIIT on my 2 off days.

I changed my routine about 1 month ago to HST instead of 5x5 as well. HST seemed like a better option on a lower caloric intake, I'm not trying to improve my PR as quickly as I would be on a 5x5, but i'm still doing some good compound exercises.

[ThickAsABrick]

Perhaps we are all talking about different things then.
No disrespect to anyone who has shed a lot of BF and gotten great results (I think that's awesome), but I'm thinking more people who are leaner to begin with that are trying to get to single digit BF. It's a little different for some when you have less to cut starting out. Not saying everyone needs to change their program either, just that I know some that have because cutting cals alone wasn't getting it done.

[LSU1]

Originally Posted by RipStone

No, I did not say that.

I am talking about your lifting routine. Keep your lifting routine pretty much the same while cutting. If anything, maybe lower the volume a tad.

It's fine to add some cardio though.

as per the bold, only IF you are having issues with recovery. if you do five exercises with four sets each (like me), you could dial down the later exercises to three sets

[romeyjdogg]

Originally Posted by ThickAsABrick

Perhaps we are all talking about different things then.
No disrespect to anyone who has shed a lot of BF and gotten great results (I think that's awesome), but I'm thinking more people who are leaner to begin with that are trying to get to single digit BF. It's a little different for some when you have less to cut starting out. Not saying everyone needs to change their program either, just that I know some that have because cutting cals alone wasn't getting it done.

True, true. I guess I wouldn't have thought of doing things that way. I would have just added more cardio. Valid option though.

[Dave76]

Originally Posted by ThickAsABrick

It's a little different for some when you have less to cut starting out. Not saying everyone needs to change their program either, just that I know some that have because cutting cals alone wasn't getting it done.

Point taken.

Getting to 12% is easy.

Getting to 8% is hard.

Getting to 5% is damn near impossible.

Agreed that different methods will be needed to reach each level. (I got to the easy 12% level.)

[Screamin]

Originally Posted by MATT 022206

you dont think bumping your own unpopular thread 2 times is a little excessive??

BUt when im cutting I like to throw in exercises liek 21's and thing that I will use lighter weight with but I will get more of a cardivascular benefit out of it.

You must be sporting 18" bicepts cut like diamondz with those kinds of exercises! Jacked fibras yo!

/end off-topic

IMHO, you should try and work to your limit when cutting. You're already depriving your muscles of some food that they need for repair. Why would you additionally deprive them of growth stimulus?

Cutting diet + lowered volume = greater chance of muscle loss