NOOOoooo..... Not Gyno!

**MurphMan** · 05-06-2002, 02:15 PM

This thread is dedicated to all who suffer from or may expirience Gyno. Here is my story. Thanks to Younggunz for giving me the courage to create this thread.
-------------------------------------------

Repost from Vitex thread:

I got Gyno in puberty. I went to a doctor when I was 13 and he said " Well, its not uncommon to have a bit of budding in the breast area due to the raging hormones oin my body." Well to this day I still hate that doctor. My budding turned into a couple of titties. Combined with my drinking as a young man, it turned out pretty bad. I was totally self conscious. They showed through my T-shirts and I always wore another shirt to hide them. It was a real bummer.

Last year I started working out and lost alot of weight, 54 pounds in 14 weeks. But my titties were still there. I've done a couple of PH cycles, which did not make it any worse fortunately. During my ONE cycle I did notice an increase of puffyness ( is that a word?

). Anyway, I read on this board that Vitex can help with Gyno, so I gave it a try. To say the least.... THANK GOD FOR VITEX!!!!! My Gyno has started to reverse well past the extra puffyness from ONE. I can now wear a Tshirt without worry.

This has been very hard to deal with, and extremely embarassing. Its hard even now to admit it to you all over the Internet. But I want to share my expirience with those who may be going through the same thing.

Thanks to all my good Bro's here at BB.com! Not to be a sissy, but I love you all!!!

Peace

...oh, and I've been taking 1500mg's per day for two weeks.

**MurphMan** · 05-06-2002, 02:22 PM

I've no idea whether my Gyno was due to Estrogen or Progesterone simply because I don't know if Progesterone is at all present, at significant levels, in the male body during puberty. My suspicion is it is from Estrogen.

Something in 1-Test aromitizes (sp) as I expirienced quite a bit of water retention. As for the extra puffy nipples, who knows if it is Estrogen or Progesterone.

Originally posted by Younggunz
I really wouldn't think it would be progesterone that would cause gyno in your situation, seeing as progesterone is produced in the Corpus Luteum in women (men do not have this of course). I really don't know if there is a possibilty of aromatization of any male hormones to progesterone. I could be wrong and have just never heard of it. I'm an idiot when it comes to chemistry truthfully.

**Antonio** · 05-06-2002, 02:29 PM

I'm glad to hear your gyno is going away.

Do you know how vitex is in comparison with viratase?
Also you say you take 1500 mg a day but how do you split the doses?
Just wondering. thanks

**MurphMan** · 05-06-2002, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Antonio
I'm glad to hear your gyno is going away.

Do you know how vitex is in comparison with viratase?
Also you say you take 1500 mg a day but how do you split the doses?
Just wondering. thanks

500mg capsules. I pop all three with my morning protein drink. But now that you mention it, I wonder if it may be a good idea to break it up into 500mgs breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Anyone?

**can_o_whoop_ass** · 05-06-2002, 02:42 PM

well Murphman, you and I must be made of the same stuff, your experience is almost identical to mine. I've always had a little extra 'tissue' in the lower chest/nipple area and my cycles of tren-x and One did seem to aggravate the condition somewhat, to an extent i cut my cycle short to only 3 weeks,however in this time i gained 12 (mostly) quality pounds and had my most productive ever period of training.
I also have been using Vitex to alleviate the symptoms to great effect, and relief i might add, and because the puffiness on reflection appears to be only water, I will do another cycle of One in a couple of months time,with a little more confidence. Even though it seems I can't perhaps use this product to its full potency as most others can, it's given me a real opportunity to get where i want to be without A.S.
Hats off to Par!

**Antonio** · 05-06-2002, 02:45 PM

Murphman, do you have to cycle vitex? is it any kind of prohormone?

Thanks

**MurphMan** · 05-06-2002, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Antonio
Murphman, do you have to cycle vitex? is it any kind of prohormone?

Thanks

Well, Vitex is the common name for the herb Chasteberry. I think they just dry it and grind it up into a powder and capsule it. As far a cycling it, my opinion is that with anything you put in your body, after time the body gets acclimated to it. Therefore you may not get the same results you got in the beginning. RockECU takes it and he says he cycled it. Maybe he has something to offer. I've been taking it for 2 weeks so I don't know. I guess I'll stop taking it when I don't see anymore improvement.

**RockECU** · 05-06-2002, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Antonio
Murphman, do you have to cycle vitex? is it any kind of prohormone?

Thanks

no.. it's an herb... and i don't believe cycling is needed... i used it 2-3 (may have said 1-2 in other post) months before coming off... it is not a hormone, thus i wouldn't believe it would have to be cycled.. refer to the vitex thread..

**hitmeoff** · 05-06-2002, 02:58 PM

Yeah, how does Vitex compare to Viratase?

Also, what brand of Vitex did you use? I did a search for it in BB.com but didnt come up with a pure Vitex formula.

MurphMan, I also doubt that aromatization in 1-Test cause the slight water retention. It may just be something in Pars formula that makes you retain water where you apply it. Lipoderm certianly doesnt make you store fat, but many people experiance some water rentention in the area applied for a few weeks

**Antonio** · 05-06-2002, 02:59 PM

Thanks guys.

Does anyone know how effective vitex could be in comparison with viratase?

**RockECU** · 05-06-2002, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by hitmeoff
Yeah, how does Vitex compare to Viratase?

-what ingredients are in viratase?
-I hate to harp a biotest supplement, but their M product contains it... but you'd pay an arm and a leg for it...

Also, what brand of Vitex did you use? I did a search for it in BB.com but didnt come up with a pure Vitex formula.

refer to Vitex thread

**MurphMan** · 05-06-2002, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by hitmeoff
Yeah, how does Vitex compare to Viratase?

Also, what brand of Vitex did you use? I did a search for it in BB.com but didnt come up with a pure Vitex formula.

MurphMan, I also doubt that aromatization in 1-Test cause the slight water retention. It may just be something in Pars formula that makes you retain water where you apply it. Lipoderm certianly doesnt make you store fat, but many people experiance some water rentention in the area applied for a few weeks

I've never used Viratese so I have now idea regarding the comparison.

I didn't have slight water retention. I blew up all over. You could see it in my face, I started to get a double chin. In fact I've retained absolutely zero weight from that cycle, however my strength has NOT decreased. Go figure.

And I don't know what the hell your talking about regarding Lipoderm. I was simply making a joke as to whether or not rubbing Lipoderm on my chest will help to mobilize the stored fat in my titties if the Vitex doesn't get rid of the Gyno completely.

**hitmeoff** · 05-06-2002, 03:07 PM

RockECU,

Viratase is quite different from Vitex, Viratase is simply a weak verision of 5-AA....not really strong enough to illicit an anabolic/androgenic effect, but still works to block estrogen receptors. Ive heard great things about it, used it for about a week myself (cut my PH cycle short due to extreme lethargy from 1-AD).

So I was just wondering how its effectiveness compared to Vitex

**RockECU** · 05-06-2002, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by MurphMan

I've never used Viratese so I have now idea regarding the comparison.

I didn't have slight water retention. I blew up all over. You could see it in my face, I started to get a double chin. In fact I've retained absolutely zero weight from that cycle, however my strength has NOT decreased. Go figure.

And I don't know what the hell your talking about regarding Lipoderm. I was simply making a joke as to whether or not rubbing Lipoderm on my chest will help to mobilize the stored fat in my titties if the Vitex doesn't get rid of the Gyno completely.

even though you were joking, that may possibly prove to be beneficial.

**hitmeoff** · 05-06-2002, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by MurphMan

I've never used Viratese so I have now idea regarding the comparison.

I didn't have slight water retention. I blew up all over. You could see it in my face, I started to get a double chin. In fact I've retained absolutely zero weight from that cycle, however my strength has NOT decreased. Go figure.

And I don't know what the hell your talking about regarding Lipoderm. I was simply making a joke as to whether or not rubbing Lipoderm on my chest will help to mobilize the stored fat in my titties if the Vitex doesn't get rid of the Gyno completely.

Well I didnt know you blew up all over the place. You had originally said that you had some water rentention.

As far as the Lipoderm goes, actually, I didnt know you even mentioned it. I mentioned it becasue many people were repoting some water retention the first few weeks on Lipoderm, and I was thiking maybe the same agent that cause water rentention in Lipoderm might be present in ONE since they are both transdermals and both made by Avant. I was thinking maybe the chemical that transports the substances through ther skin might be the same.

**MurphMan** · 05-06-2002, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by hitmeoff
MurphMan,

How does one know if its Gyno and not just fat? I, like you have always carried an extra amount of fat in my chest area. Last year, I trained to loose fat, and while I lost 40lbs in 3 months, I still had a large amount of fat in my chest (as well a large amount in my love handles, no belly though).

THe tissue isnt lumpy or hard, its soft, feels jus tlike fat, but an unprotionately large amount of fat. I do notice a decrease in the size whenever I loose fat, but the deposits are still unproportinately high as compared to the rest of my body.

Originally posted by MurphMan

Well for me, when the Gyno started in puberty, I had normal nipples. But I noticed a small ball forming in my right nipple. After the Gyno was full blown the ball seemed to go away but the nipples, I believe they are referred to as the Areola or something like that, were pushed out. I see fat guys with kinda saggy breasts, but for me it is contained within, or just outside the nipple. Now if I feel around it just feels like fatty tissue. If I go into the water and get hard nipples you don't even notice it. After my nipples return to normal then the Gyno is noticeable. It realy sucks. When I go to the beach I have to keep going for a swim every twenty minutes or so unless its a bit windy, then my nips stay hard. God this is embarrasing to talk about! Hope that helps.

**hitmeoff** · 05-06-2002, 03:23 PM

Short of surgery what can I do or take to lower the amount of fat there?

I was thinking maybe Viratase to block estrogen receptors. Maybe Vitex (though not sure how it helps), or maybe Lipoderm to burn off fat in that particular area.

Any suggestions?

**WHOSYOURDADDY02** · 05-06-2002, 03:23 PM

Man, I got titties too... I wouldnt call it Gyno but there is definitely some fat around the nipples...I think its just genetic in my case... the more I cut , the more It should go away...which obviously wouldnt be associated with true gyno

**MurphMan** · 05-06-2002, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by RockECU

even though you were joking, that may possibly prove to be beneficial.

You are right, what do I have to lose except my titties?

**zeke** · 05-06-2002, 03:56 PM

Great thread Murphman. I also have a slight case of gyno and can totally relate to your swimming description. I never would have though of using any kind of OTC to reverse it. I always thought the only solution was surgery. I think I'll give it a try for 3 or 4 weeks and see what happens.

Funny you should mention the Lipoderm idea. I'm going to be using it in a few weeks on my stomach and was considering using it on my chest if it worked. I figured this might give me a better idea of how much is really fat and how much is actually gyno.

**MurphMan** · 05-06-2002, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by zeke
Great thread Murphman. I also have a slight case of gyno and can totally relate to your swimming description. I never would have though of using any kind of OTC to reverse it. I always thought the only solution was surgery. I think I'll give it a try for 3 or 4 weeks and see what happens.

Funny you should mention the Lipoderm idea. I'm going to be using it in a few weeks on my stomach and was considering using it on my chest if it worked. I figured this might give me a better idea of how much is really fat and how much is actually gyno.

Cool zeke! Keep us all informed on the Lipoderm test. I myself am very interested in what your results will be.

**Par Deus** · 05-06-2002, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by hitmeoff

MurphMan, I also doubt that aromatization in 1-Test cause the slight water retention. It may just be something in Pars formula that makes you retain water where you apply it. Lipoderm certianly doesnt make you store fat, but many people experiance some water rentention in the area applied for a few weeks

Yohimbine, the active ingredient in LipoDerm, is what causes water retention. I think 1-test must be slightly progestenic or something, because it is not supposed to aromatize.

**Rufus88** · 05-06-2002, 05:22 PM

i kinda got the same thing..i looked up the vitex on this site and came up with M and three other things with the exact same ingredients, by the same company..it may be an error but i think il buy it when i figure out which is which...

this stuff is allowed in canada right?,.or at least will clear the customs.?

thanx

**jambo** · 05-07-2002, 03:22 AM

Hey guys, you might have seen my posts before. I suffered natural gyno from age 10 or so. It never went away. The condition has totally ruined my life, I am now 19 and had surgery at 18. That was not successful, so I had it again, and I still need it again. It has been so stressful. The thing is, as far as I know, ther is no supp that can remove it. Once its there, you need surgery. My chest is seriously deformed now, and I still cannot wear a t-shirt, even though my breast is now half the size.
Murphman! Did you have real gyno? And did this Vitex actually remove it, if so where can I get it, and will it actualy solve my problem?
I am ready to take Ph's cos I really wanna get big now, and gt cut, but I am gona need help from you guys as to which is the best for size and strength without estrogen effects.
Please advise anyway possible

**CyberGod** · 05-07-2002, 04:25 AM

while using Vitex, did you cut or continue bulking??? In other words, did you lose extra bodyfat while using that supp???

**can_o_whoop_ass** · 05-07-2002, 04:38 AM

Jambo,
think long and hard man before you try ANY form of ph or steroid, I don't think there is a product out there that can be considered free from any form estrogenic type effect IMO.
It's purely down to the level of side effect that YOU are prepared to tolerate.
read everything you can, in the end the decision is yours.Try some 1-test and see how you get on, it's probably your best choice.

**Geoff274544** · 05-07-2002, 07:43 AM

BUMP!

**Irishman** · 05-07-2002, 08:34 AM

Great post, murphman! I just ordered 3 bottles of Vitex (300 pills at 400mg/pill) - should last 100 days at 3/day. Cost me $18 for all 3 bottles + the s/h...not too shabby!!!

**CyberGod** · 05-07-2002, 08:42 AM

thanks murphman, I will try to find some of that Vitex (Chasteberry??) ANyone knows where i can find that supplement in canada???

Murph, I read your post in the vitex thread, and it seems that we have the exact same problem. I have some fat tissue under my LEFT nipple (right seems okay), and like you, if i go swim in the water or take a cold bath, it's not noticeable.

Got a question for you: Did you go through a cutting cycle while using the Vitex??

Also, you said you took 1500mg per day, is that one time per day or separated throughout the day???

Thanks.

**MurphMan** · 05-07-2002, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by jambo
Hey guys, you might have seen my posts before. I suffered natural gyno from age 10 or so. It never went away. The condition has totally ruined my life, I am now 19 and had surgery at 18. That was not successful, so I had it again, and I still need it again. It has been so stressful. The thing is, as far as I know, ther is no supp that can remove it. Once its there, you need surgery. My chest is seriously deformed now, and I still cannot wear a t-shirt, even though my breast is now half the size.
Murphman! Did you have real gyno? And did this Vitex actually remove it, if so where can I get it, and will it actualy solve my problem?
I am ready to take Ph's cos I really wanna get big now, and gt cut, but I am gona need help from you guys as to which is the best for size and strength without estrogen effects.
Please advise anyway possible

It is/was most definately Gyno, cuased from puberty. My nips are about twice as large as they were before puberty. My drinking as a late teen and early adulthood contributed quite a bit to my condition. Since I stopped drinking and started taking Vitex my Gyno has decreased by more than 50%. I don't have saggy breasts like a fat guy. The nipples are large and round and tend to appear pushed out, unless they get hard from the cold or from sex.

Vitex is the common name for Chaste Berry, some kind of herb. It can be found at most health food stores. My brand is made by Great Earth Vitamins.

And as to the suggestion of taking 1-Test for your cycle, I wouldn't do it. It aggravated my condition. Maybe taking Vitex the whole time you are on 1-Test will help but I've no expirience with that. IMHO I would stick with something like 5Alpha. Possibly adding Viratase will help as well. After I'm done with the Vitex, I'm gonna rub some Lipoderm on themand take some Viratase at the same time to see if that helps anymore. But the Vitex is continuing to help. I can now wear a T-shirt without having my nips show through.

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