Afraid of gaining too much fat while putting on mass

[amyfit]

Hi everyone!! It's been a long time since I've been on here, but a friend asked me not too long ago if I had been. So I figured I'd give this question a go at you all.
I'm on a mass program. Have been since I came off my first comp. back in Oct. I went to that comp weighing 98lbs at 5'1" with 6%bf. While I was proud to get that low in bodyfat, there was a girl there who was the same height as me, but came in weighing 5 lbs more. She looked AWESOME!!! In fact, she won overall. Now I know everyone is different and that I'll never look just like her, but I was amazed at what 5lbs more of muscle can to for somebody!!
So, I decided that I want to pack on muscle. Easily said, not so easily done. I'm going to give you all a run down of my week and hope you all can tell me if I'm doing everything ok, or what needs to be tweaked. Ok, here goes.

MON: walk/run intervals 30min a.m. Chest, shoulders, tris, abs, and forearms p.m.

TUES: walk 30min a.m. Legs, Back, Bi's, abs and calves p.m.

WED: walk or aerobics 30min a.m.

THURS: Repeat Mon. Cardio and weights

FRI: Repeat Tues. Cardio and weights

SAT: Walk or walk/run 30min a.m. (depending on how my legs feel)

SUN: walk or walk/run (depending on what I didn't do the day before

This week was a little different I did complete rest on Thurs and today (Sun.) I don't if I was stressed with the whole holiday thing or what, but I felt I needed more rest.
My calories are usually around 1500-200/day in a 40-30-30 split (or as close as I can get. Sometimes it more of a 50-30-20 or a 50-20-30 Carbs/protein/fat). I've been gaining a 1/2lbs a week steadily, except for this week. I gained a pound. Currently, I'm at 105lbs and 10%bf.
So here's the question. Am I eating too much, too little? Is my cardio too much or too little?? I like my weights the way they are, I've been able to increase my poundage by 5lbs every week. I've already met the goal I set for myself to meet by Feb. So I'm upping my goal(DUH). Any suggestions on my routine would be great. Also I don't want to gain a lot of fat (Already feel I have. I know that's just the rebound from seeing myself at comp time, but boy does it suck!!) Anything I can do to make sure I don't balloon up too much? Thanks for any help!!

Amyfit

P.S. Msfit, how's it going?? Also I'd like your opinion on this too. Thanks!!

[MsFit]

Hey lilfit Nice to see you again. Congratulations on your placement in your recent show. You've been bitten by the competition bug I see. I hit that damn bug with a fly swatter this year.

Well Amy, if you want to add muscle you need to decrease cardio. I know you're probaly still lean and hard and want to keep it that way, but in order to put on muscle you need to stop burning it with all that cardio. If you absoluately must do cardio, limit it to 3 times a week for about 20 minutes.

I still think that you are over training. It takes a muscle 7-10 days to fully recover naturally. Training the same bodypart with in a few days will not produce growth. You know this!! Amyfit, train each muscle group only once a week hard, heavy and intense and briefly. More is not always better.

Don't stress over you diet so much, just eat enough protein and carbs with each meal and you'll be fine. I know you don't go overboard. Keep it at 5-6 meals a day with a lot of water.

TRAIN, EAT, REST = GROW
MsFit

[Rebecca95833]

Amyfit, I have a similar problem in keeping size. I've been trying since April to balance my thighs a bit. I put on size upper body pretty easily, but can't seem to get the size I'd like in the thighs. My goal for the past six months was to try to get 3 to 4 lbs of lean mass on my legs.

I found an answer similar to Misfits. I really like doing cardio, and don't feel right when I'm not doing at least 45 min cardio sessions, but had to cut down the cardio to about 25 minutes three days a week to keep any weight on. This was the easiest for me, as I really don't like to mess with the diet too much. It's too difficult to get back on the right track with diet when I start messing with it. I just worked the diet a bit, and found that my body needed a higher percentage of complex carbs to put on weight.

So far I've been able to cycle back on about three lean pounds, but I had to do it in stages. Put on three or four pounds, pump the cardio up again and take off two, and then all over again. The problem is that every time I get the weight by three or for pounds, I get a little paniced and start back with the heavy cardio again and then suddenly I'm back where I started, so I have to keep really complete logs to find out what I'm doing right and/or wrong.

[amyfit]

Thanks for the advice guys!! I appericate it! Ok, I'll cut down my cardio. You know, it's kinda' hard to change a mindset. You concentrate on staying thin almost all your life, then you see what the body COULD look like with more muscle, and although you want that muscle, all those old habits and insecurities kick in. "WHAT?!?!?" GAIN weight?!?!?" My mind screams. Are you nuts?" I see my abs and definition vanishing and it's little scary.
I want to compete again, and I want to come in bigger. I know you can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. These processes must be cycled. How have you all dealt with your mind taunting you and the mirror telling you, that you're gaining fat.
I mean let's face it. That's NOT what society has taught us as women to do.
Any advice on how to help ease my mind and body into all of this WITHOUT panicking would be great.
Thanks again for the advice. I'll cut back.

Realizing my dreams.....
Amy

[Rebecca95833]

Amy, I know exactly how you feel. It doesn't take more than just a few pounds to notice the difference in your body. For me, I have really good veins in my arms, and they get smoothed out real quick with only a a few pounds, but with the additional weight, I notice the additional size, and I like the look.

I know what you mean about a mindset. It seems so much easier to contemplate keeping your weight and bodyfat at a certain level. I had my bodyfat down at between 6% and 7% for a long while. Finally, I had a close friend who is also a competitive bodybuilder and very successful personal trainer corner me in the gym one day...."you need to eat more!!!!" I thought he was nuts, until I took his advise, and saw the difference in the way I looked. I'd gone way to far with keeping my weight down, and when I actually looked at myself objectively, he was correct. I'd gotten to a point that I had a stringy look (don't know how else to describe it).

Let's face it, we will never be 100% pleased with our entire body. I know where the extra 2% bodyfat goes and it bugs the hell out of me, but overall, with the extra weight I actually look better and I lift heavier and better.

If you are like me and are a bit of an endorphin and/or endurance nut, and you need the cardio, just limit it to three days. Sometimes I'll skip cardio (other than a 15 or 20 minute warm up) Mon through Thurs (the four days a week that I weight train), and then hit it hard on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

[amyfit]

I have found that ever since I've started increasing my food intake my weight that I lift becomes more and more. I LOVE that feeling!! I guess you could say it's a trade off. More food better lifts, less food, less bodyfat.
I'm going to stick this out, as I really do want to get bigger. It's kinda' fun, my husband is having trouble spotting me, because he's struggling to get the weight onto my back. He he he!
Actually I more of a sprinter at heart. I'm good with bursts of high intesity cardio with lower intensity. The only thing I really have endurance for is step aerobics. One of my favorite forms of cardio.
I think I'll try doing cardio on my non leg days along with one day over the weekend. That would mean, Mon, Thurs, and probably Sun. Think that'll do?

Amy

[Rebecca95833]

Amy, try it. I never do cardio on leg day, as legs are my weakest area, and I always hit them hard, I don't have the stamina to do any form of cardio (or even abs) on leg day. <laughing>. Tweak both your cardio and diet, but keep very accurate logs (don't fudge with the calorie counts). I started by bumping my daily intake by 200, and then ended up adding another 150 or so, when 200 wasn't adequate. It's actually kind of hard to add 350 calories a day to your diet, if you are used to eating clean.

[amyfit]

I'll give it a try and let you know how it goes. What's your intensity like on your cardio days?? I was thinking, one interval, one low, and one high. Too much?

[Rebecca95833]

Amy. That's kind of a difficult question to answer, as I do several different types of cardio. First off, I love in-line skating, so when the weather permits, I usually try to skate a couple of days a week, and although I usually plan for about an hour, I often can't make myself go home for a couple of hours. This is my light cardio. On Saturdays there is a group of us that do a "Boot Camp" type of workout. We go to a local school track and kill ourselves. Usually it's joggins for a couple of miles, running bleacher stairs for approx 14 to 20 trips up and down. We usually do about 1/2 hour of different exercises (squats, pushups, jumping jacks), and then we do about 10 Fifty to 100 yard sprints. This is a very intense cardio day. Occasionally, I'll do a spin class. Mostly when I'm just doing regular cardio, I will pick different equipment (the crosstrainer and rowing machine are my favorite) and I work from between 80% and 100% max Target Heart Rate. I prefer my cardio workouts at between 40 and 45 minutes, but only do one of those a week in addition to Boot Camp. I will usually do a couple of cardio workouts at about 25 minutes two days a week.

[amyfit]

It give me a better idea of how I can structure a cardio routine for me. I'm still gaining away. I gained another 1/2lb this week and my boss said, " Wow Amy, you're really getting bigger!" Made my week, so I guess I'm on the right path, eh?
Thanks again!!

Smy

[joehagyHH]

amy, read my article at www.teenbodybuilding.com/hagy the one talking about eating clean and whole foods compared to processed foods.... it even gives examples of the two and compares and shows the strenghts of eating clean, whole foods.

[amyfit]

Thanks for the heads up on your article! I do try my best to eat whole foods, but I do supplement with a protein shake and a bar everyday. Easier to eat/drink at work. I'm taking a break this week. Felt I was slipping into an overtrained state. I haven't taken a week off since April. I feel it's time. Next week I start a new rotation, hopefully I'll shock my muscles into more growth.
I'll keep eating clean as much as possible and hopefully gain that muscle I so desperately want!
Thanks again!!
Amy

[joehagyHH]

glad i could help... you seem to know the basics and are knowledgable( supplimenting, changing routines, eating clean, taking some time off if you feel like your overtraining, etc.). good luck!

[amyfit]

Right back at ya'! Keep Growing! I check my weight and bodyfat tomorrow, hopefully, there'll be an increase in weight w/o the fat.
Hey, how often do you check measurements? When I was cuttin up, I'd check every week, but now, I'm thinking every 2 weeks would be better when checking for size gains. Yes?
Amy

[joehagyHH]

i would say check them about every 4-8 weeks or so. its a good idea to take some pictures too every 4-8 weeks to visually see your progress. as for me personally, i usually will check my measurements at the end of my bulking phase. since im still bulking i dont know my current measurements, but my old ones( at the end of my bulking phase in april,2001) are at www.teenbodybuilding.com/hagy. im bigger, but i dont know how much bigger. currently i am 255 at 6'2" with a 13% bodyfat, and i turned 18. on the old page it should say 245 at 15% with me being 17. i usually get my bf checked around ever month, along with cholestoral, bp, all that good stuff.

but your right, when your cutting i would definatly check every week, maybe even more than that to make sure you didnt lose any muscle. during cutting, you should only lose 1-2 lbs a week and no more. any more and its all muscle.

[amyfit]

This is just curiosity(sp?), but, how come you get your cholesterol and all that checked every month?? Are you on the keto diet thing?
I'll get film for my camera for the pics, but man, this body image thing is killer. Also, it's only been one day and I'm already missing working out. Think it'd be ok, to resume training maybe on Thurs. Instead of Mon.?

Amy

[joehagyHH]

lol.. no, no keto for me. i need my carbs. lol. but i just get it checked out just to make sure my levels stay in the healthy range even though i am bulking... to me bodybuilding is about being healthy, not gaining freaky mass and putting your body in danger by doing that.....although lots of muscle is nice! if those levels start to get high, then i will suppliment with more lean sources of protein and cut out some of my fat sources and suppliment with natural sources of EFA's( eventhough i already do that). if you feel like your overtraining, take as mcuh time off as you need, a week is probably enough.... you dont want to burn your body out!

[amyfit]

Me too!! I love, love, love my carbs! Getting all that check is a great idea. You are one health orientinted person!! I think that's great! I'll listen to my body, and let it tell me when to go back, not my mind screaming that I should be doing it.

Thanks Joe,
Amy

[joehagyHH]

your welcome amy... if you ever need help and just want to talk about training, my email is joehagy@hotmail.com

[Nicole]

Hey Amy

I am new here but I am in the same position you were after your contest. The only problem is that I was getting ready for a show this summer before my wedding and they cancelled it 4 weeks out. After that my midset was totally messed up. I ha no idea where to go from there. Part of me wants to gain but there is that other evil half that wants to stay at 10% bodyfat in the off-season. I am just really confused. One day I will eat really clean and do an hour of cardio plus lifting and the next day I will eat way too much and the circle just continues. I am just not sure exactly what I want to do yet. It sounds like you were struggling with the same kinds of things. Any advice you can give me? I am thinking about doing a show in April so it is about 4 months away. That means I only have about a month to remain in the "bulking" phase. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[amyfit]

Yep, we sound alot alike! Since your contest is only 4 months away, I have 2 suggestions for you. Since you are already pretty low in bodyfat, I would suggest a sort of transistional phase. Where you don't really try to lose or gain, but rather slowly start increasing the intesisty of your workouts and getting off the eating cycle of clean one day bad the next, to mostly clean. After a month of easing your body into this with the transistion cycle, you'll be ready for precomp dieting.
If you're really wanting to bulk for the next month, then maybe just REALLY watch your fat intake and bodyfat while doing it. This is NOT the time to increase your bodyfat!! I really don't think one month will make a huge difference, I could be wrong since this is my first bulking phase, but you probably could, then transistion after that for maybe two weeks and then start precomp dieting at 8-10 weeks out.
This is really exciting!! Will you keep me posted on how you are ding?!? Hope I helped ya' some, but please remember, I'm a rookie myself. If anybody else has better advice, I'm sure they'll gently correct me.
Good Luck!!
Amy

[Nicole]

Hey Amy

Thanks for the info! It's always good to get another perspective. This will be my third show in 4 years. I took a couple of years off after my last show to put on some more muscle. I just think I got too caught up in trying to keep my bodyfat low for so long that I would binge every now and then. I think that messes with your mindset. I can tell I have definately put on some mass. For my last precontest season I was 11% bodyfat and still weighed 115. I am about 5'3". The scale would always freak me out but that isn't the most accurate way to check your progress. I was happy with my progress but then they cancelled the show and I was left hanging there. I don't know how I would have done but it would have been interesting. If it's not too much trouble, could you jot down a sample of your diet for the day? I am having a lot of trouble with this right now.

I will give you an example of what I am eating.

Meal 1
5 egg whites
fat free cheese
Oatmeal

Meal 2
Protein bar

Meal 3
chicken
vegetable (salad, green beans, etc)
yogurt

Meal 4
Protein shake
orange

Meal 5
Pork loin
baked potato
salad

Sometimes as a snack I will eat lowfat popcorn or some pretzels every now and then. I also drink about a gallon of water a day and take creatine, HMB, multi-vitamin, calcium, vit. C, and chromium picolinate.

Let me know what you think!

Thanks a lot!
Nicole

[Rebecca95833]

A person first starting out in a weight program will add muscle and burn excess fat that is stored, but once you get to a certain lean mass, you muscle growth will come to an end. In order to gain mass you need to consume more calories than you use, if you are not getting EXCESS calories, you body will not change. You will need to adjust your food intake vs. your body's requirement in order to grow. A body that has a lot of muscle mass needs more food to sustain itself and if you are trying to add mass you will need to eat more, then lean back out for competition.

Most of the girls I train with are fitness competitors, and hence, they don't really "bulk", but may gain five or so pounds to allow themselves to train harder. The one other bodybuilder I train with is, like me, in the Master's category. Although years ago, I would bulk up to 30 lbs extra in the off season (and most male bodybuilders I know will do likewise), as I got older I had the problem of when dieting down being left with a lot of loose skin. As I age, my skin just doesn't bounce back as rapidly. This time around, I started training very thin (not the same as lean), and then I got about as lean as I could go. Actually an experiment that didn't work too well. I've had problems with balance and training, and have spent the last eight months cycling weight back on.

I will be competing in April, and am right now about 4 lbs over where I will be for competition. I've gotten some good balance in my thighs, which has left more weight on my mid-section and glutes that I would like, but hope this will come off when I start reducing bodyfat.

I work with a trainer who is a very successful natural bodybuilder, and he has advised me that the emphasis right now on female competition is a big focus on the lats, so I plan to keep the additional calorie consumption up for probably a couple more months to work heavy towards developing the lats. Through trial and error, I found what works best for me is to keep the cardio low while slowly dieting down (give yourself pleanty of time to do so), and then towards the end to increase the cardio to lean out.

Of course, giving advise is always so subjective, as we all tend to react differently. I probably gave you information you were already aware of, but who knows. Good luck, both of you.

I'm having more trouble right now with the psychological aspect to competing this time (haven't done it in a few years), being half naked in front of people is easier when I was under 40. Now I'm afraid I'm intimidated by all the younger bodies. Geeze, the things we worry about. <laughing>.

[Nicole]

thanks for the info Rebecca

I am always greatful for any advice. As for competing in the Master's I think it is awesome! To tell you the truth, us younger women are intimidated by the women over 35 since you can get thinner skin and get more ripped. The over 35 always kick butt!

I guess I will have to reassess my goals and just maintain until I start dieting. Right now I am about 130lbs and 16% bodyfat thanks to the upcoming holidays! I am 5'3" and last competed at 113 lbs and 8%. I was only 21 at the time and I can really tell a difference in my body 3 years later. I still had a lot of "baby" fat but I am a lot fuller now and I think I can get more ripped.

[Rebecca95833]

My last post sounded so much like "preaching", which wasn't my intention....those are those things I have to often remind myself. Thanks for your words of encouragement.

[amyfit]

First off, I have to say, I agree with Nicole 100%!! I keep seeing women 35 and over who are awesome!! I can't wait for that kind of muscle maturity!! You got me thinking though Rebecca, how do I know if I'm eating the right way? I pharsed that wrong. Here, let me give you a rundown of what I'm going through.
On Oct.27, I was in the best shape of my life. 6% bodyfat is low, and I loved it! However, when I saw that woman with her muscles, I knew I wanted that even more. I've been steadily gaining, I'm at 107 with 15% bodyfat. And I see myself as overweight now. Rationally, I know I'm not. I weighed 106 when I decided to do my comp. I'm eating 1gr of protein per pound of bodyweight. Some days a little more, but never over 150 gr a day. My cals are between 1500-2000. My mac. split is usually 50-30-20 carbs-protein-fat. All I see is fat. My boss says I'm getting bigger, muscle wise, but this is difficult for me. I've always focused on being thin. Now my focus has changed. What if I can't lose the weight again for the next comp I want to enter??
I've gained 9lbs and 9% bodyfat in less than 2 months. Is this all fat?? How to you determine if it's fat or muscle??
Also, I have not begun to start my periods again yet. Is this normal? How long does it take for that to start back up? Not that I'm complaining....... He he he!
Thanks!!
Amy

[Rebecca95833]

Diet, diet, diet....I'm not sure where to go with advice, as every single girl I train with has to adjust their diet differently. I'll tell you what work for me later.

First off a couple of points. 6% bodyfat is dangerously low, especially if you maintained it for any length of time. I kow, I was there and had it preached to me adnauseam. For most women your period will stop when you bodyfat drops below 12%. This is due to the fact that women store hormones in fat. This doesn't happen to me, so I know this isn't carved in stone. Usually, if you have your bodyfat back above 12% for around three months, this should return, if not, it is advised you see your doctor for some progestrine (hope spelled correctly). Second point of interest is how you measuring bodyfat. I've actually had mine measured three different ways in one week and come up with as much as a 5% difference. I've been told by a reliable source that calipers are not at all accurate for most white women (although I have no idea if you fit in this category. ha ha). The explanation I got was that it has to do with the way we store water under the skin. You can probably get a better feel for where your bodyfat is just by the look of your body. For me, if my viens smooth out, and I can actually wear a bra, I'm probably over 12% (although it's difficult to find a Wonder Bra in a 38A. 6% body fat for a women is rediculous (I can't believe the judging, they want us to be lean and mean and have breasts). I have a very good friend who is a competitive natural (pro now) bodybuilder and this summer we did 3 competitions over a 5 month time span. His lowest bodyfat was between 5 and 6% and even he recognized that he had reached the unhealthy place. He said he would never do that again. He proceeded to gain 15 lbs in the first month after final competition.

Diet! You really need to figure out what works for you. First off, I have a bodybuilder's build. Wide chest and back, pretty big arms, but not much waist and no hips (it's why I work so hard to get a little size on my thighs (illusion). My workout partner is very young (and like Nicole spoke of, still has some babyfat). She is a fitness competitor, and has the classic female form (you know boobs and hips). She has been tweeking her diet every two week for months, and what works best for her is 8 small meals a day, with about equal carbs/protein and very low fat. For me, I eat probably about 45/45/10. I stay competely away for all sugars and when possible simple carbs. If I'm dieting or maintaining I find it works best to keep my complex carb consumption to earlier in the day. I work out every day at 3 or 4, and try to eat most of my carbs before workout. If I'm trying to gain, I find that adding more complex carbs after workout helps. I have adjusted my calories to about 2000 a day, which includes one protein shake a day made with whole milk (I prefer the small amount of fat to the sugar in low fat), and one protein shake a day made with water. I stay away from bars for the most part, look at the contents, they are loaded with both fat and sugar. I get a better boost from a half peanut butter sand on whole wheat or a handful of almonds and dried fruit. I don't drink sports drinks for the same reason, and I get pleanty of salt on my food. I will drink a bottle filled with half orange or grapefruit juice and water along with water during workout. I've actually been into nutrition for years, so I read the contents of everything I buy. For the most part, I prefer fresh, not packaged foods. Both my teenagers are also into weight training. My daughter is a dancer, so uses it to enhance her appearance as well as performance. My son is a tall skinny kid, and has been using it to put on some size. It makes it interesting trying to buy and prepare food for all these types. We eat fish at least three times a week, red meat at most twice a week. I keep cooked chicken and turkey available all the time for salads, snacks, or meals. We eat high fibre carbs, (oatmeal, brown rice, yams, red potatoes, wheat germ, soy, lots of fresh vegetables, dried and fresh fruit and nuts). My son was joking with a friend on the phone the other day and I heard him say that if he asks his mother to guy Cocoa Puffs, I bring home high-fibre chocolate nuggets!!! I eat a lot of salad and lean meat and fish, and it works very well for me, but I know girls who won't eat much salad, as they claim it puffs them up...the same with yogurt...so that's what I mean when I say everyone is different.

Actually, this is an interesting thread, it really made me think about how I've had to adjust my diet to put on a bit more mass. For me, it has mostly been about increasing calorie intake by about 300 a day, but trying to do it with more of the same foods, eating the carbs later in the day helps. But adjusting the cardio is the best way that I control my weight gain.

I mentioned before that I keep very accruate workout and diet logs. Another thing that I started keeping track of was sleep, and the quality of that sleep. It was a tremendous eye opener for me. We are told repeatedly that "sleep" is one of the main incredients, but although we will be very consistent with exercise and diet, if are going to fudge, it's usually with sleep. Since I started keeping track of sleep, I noticed how much it affects both my training.

[amyfit]

Man!!! You are a wealth of knowledge!! Ok, first off, I know 6% is dangerous, but when you've never seen yourself like that before, WOW!! Let's just say, I was amazed!! I actually do my bf% two way. Bioelectrical Impedence, and calipers, then I average the two. When I was at comp time theywere within 1% of each other. Now, well, it's a different story.
I think I'm going to try to tweak my diet too. I start a new rotation tomorrow, maybe tweaking my diet along with it, I'll finally hit the nail on the head. I like the idea of tweaking it every couple of weeks, although, is that enough time to tell??
He he he, Iknow what you mean about the bra thing!! Before I started all this I was at a 34A, when Idieted down it was like, "Where'd they go?!?!" He he he! They came back, but still.....
About using my body as a guide, I feel I'm at more than 15%. To be honest, I feel big and soft! Although, the veins in my forarms are still quite promident.
I know it's supposed to be one or the other, gain muscle, or cut up. I just don't want to go overboard, ya' know?
I'm going to tweak the diet, maybe to a 50-35-15 split and see how that works. We do a lot of the stuff the same. Two protein shakes/day one with milk, one with water. I love yams, chicken, oatmeal, tuna, and lots of salad!! However, I'm going to start reading labels more. I'll let you know how it goes. And please, if you have anymore info for me, bring it on! I'm like a sponge right now, soaking up all the knowledge I can get!!
Thanks again!
Amy

[Nicole]

That was some great information. That is the problem with bodybuilding. It is not an exact science. There are too many variables in each individual body. I think it is a matter of trial and error and finding what works best for you. I have yet to find out what works best for me but I am hanging in there! I feel I have made great gains by keeping my protein higher and staying away from simple carbs and unnecesary fat such as butter, fried eggs, bacon, etc. There are just certain foods I will not eat any more.

I have a question for any one who has competed. After your contest and after you have a cheat meal or so after the show, have you ever experienced pain in your muscles the next day? That happened to me after every show. I would eat pizza or something like that and then the next day I would be sore all over. Kind of like my muscles were bruised. I was wondering if this had anything to do with water retention or toxins or something?

[amyfit]

you were giving it you all while posing. Posing can make you sore. You're up there competing and giving it all you've got. Now This is just my HO, but sounds to me like you're just a fierce competitor doing everything you should be doing! Keep it up!!
I've yet to find what works best for me too. Like you, I'm hangin' in! We'll find our groove one of these days! He he he!

Amy