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  1. #1
    Very Old Member RippedUp's Avatar
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    SHBG, Libido, and Insulin

    As a few might know, I have been following a diet void of simple carbs for 2 years, where the majority of them was coming from oatmeal, (and no cheat meals whatsoever) - i.e. a diet where blood sugar was always kept almost constant, with no ups and downs.
    A while ago, I started noticing a small decline in my libido.

    After numerous blood tests, I could not understand what the problem was because my total test was always in the higher end of the spectrum (between 700 and 800 ng/dL), but OTOH free test was on the lower spectrum.
    Estradiol has also always been quite low. I knew there was hence something more complex to look at.

    I tried a few supplements, of which TongKat Ali, tribulus, and Avena Sativa - all of which did little to improve the situation.
    I also reduced my training and cardio frequency, thinking that I was maybe overtraining.


    Later on, I read a study somewhere, where they showed a significant correlation between insulin and SHBG - the more insulin you secreted, the less SHBG you had.
    So after 2 years of controlling insulin via diet, I decided to take the plunge and started using dextrose for post-WO nutrition.

    After one month of doing so, I feel like a 17 y.o. again, wanting to do all women around..
    I will do another blood test soon; it will probably confirm my feelings with a much increased value for free test.

    This experience of mine showed that diet has indeed a very important role to play in the HPT axis and other factors controlling sex hormones.

    I know a few of you have adopted the "no malto/dextrose" approach to your nutrition that we have been preaching for quite a while, so this was just to give another critical view of it.

    I am not saying that you should start replacing all complex carbs with sugar, but it could be beneficial to use some for post-WO nutrition.
    The body is such a complex machine, where finding the perfect balance is often more complicated than we think - even when eating what we believe is the "best" and "cleanest" diet, we still discover later on that it is important to keep an open view to the whole science behind human physiology.

    We always want to look for drugs/supplements to help us cure a certain problem, whereas there could most definitely be an easy and natural solution to it. Just a question of digging some.


    I might have expanded a bit too much and went off-topic. Sorry about that.

    Thanks.
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  2. #2
    E-Town Concrete ballbags1's Avatar
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    very informative post, thanks bro...I've always been a fan of maltodextrin and dextrose and not afraid to supplement with em' I've always found that the GI index isn't much help b/c I end up mixing the malto with other macronutrients such as protein, flax, fiber etc and it delays the absorption of maltodextrin.
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  3. #3
    very concerned w/ mTOR's An Inconvenient Bro's Avatar
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    was your previous diet void of fresh fruits as well?
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    Very interesting post. This is something to keep in mind. Does anyone have any similar experiences?
    reply of the month:
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  5. #5
    Very Old Member RippedUp's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Customizer
    was your previous diet void of fresh fruits as well?
    Yes, almost. Maybe 3 portions of fruit per week at most.
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  6. #6
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    Originally posted by RippedUp
    Yes, almost. Maybe 3 portions of fruit per week at most.

    But fructose doesn't release insulin to the same degree as other simple sugars. That's why it was thought to be better. But fructose causes its own problems.

    Interesting evaluation though. Just goes to show you -- nothing is bad in moderation and anything extreme is usually no good for you. I used avena sativa and PF's Unleashed and my free testosterone did come back higher so I think there's something to it. Then again, tongkat Ali did nothing for me.
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  7. #7
    very concerned w/ mTOR's An Inconvenient Bro's Avatar
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    fructose has some issues but they are mostly related to the bastardized use of HFCS and strained fruit juices, whole fruits aren't bad IMO and should not be avoided
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  8. #8
    Moderator pogue's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Customizer
    whole fruits aren't bad IMO and should not be avoided
    I agree. With the added fiber in fruit, it slows the absorption of the fructose, so its a more stable release, instead of a large spike and drop off.
    I don't neg/infract/ban if you disagree with me in a civil discussion on any topic. I don't claim to be an expert on any subject and can always be proven wrong. But good luck trying ;)

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  9. #9
    Very Old Member RippedUp's Avatar
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    Here's some interesting points about SHBG.
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  10. #10
    Registered User Tian's Avatar
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    Unleahsed

    Ripped Up, you mention on a tread that disappeared that you were trying Unleashed. How did that go? I am feeling practically nothing on it.
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  11. #11
    Very Old Member RippedUp's Avatar
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    Tian

    Yes, I have a bottle of Unleashed with me that I received ~3 weeks ago.

    I just used a few capsules before intercourse - and not on a continual basis. It did enhance the whole experience some.

    The bottle is still more than half full.
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  12. #12
    Registered User Tian's Avatar
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    Ripped Up

    Wow! That really surprises me. After 2 weeks I feel practically nothing on Unleashed. After 4 weeks I felt almost nothing on Vitrex and Biotest. The only thing I felt something on was Endotest and it worked for 2 bottles and then completely stopped. I'm not quite sure what to think.
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  13. #13
    Moderator pogue's Avatar
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    Re: Tian

    Originally posted by RippedUp
    Yes, I have a bottle of Unleashed with me that I received ~3 weeks ago.

    I just used a few capsules before intercourse - and not on a continual basis. It did enhance the whole experience some.

    The bottle is still more than half full.
    I think it would only work if used daily. I suspect the effect would be minimum if only used before sex.
    I don't neg/infract/ban if you disagree with me in a civil discussion on any topic. I don't claim to be an expert on any subject and can always be proven wrong. But good luck trying ;)

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  14. #14
    Registered User Tian's Avatar
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    Progue

    Funny thing is that after the 3rd serving of Unleashed, I felt a boost, but after the 6th I didn't feel anything. So, I guess that I can somewhat understand Ripped Up's post.

    The question is why would the effect go away for me. I was willing to think that Unleashed had no affect at all and that what I experienced early on was placebo. Now, I just don't know what the hell is happening.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Progue

    Originally posted by Tian
    Funny thing is that after the 3rd serving of Unleashed, I felt a boost, but after the 6th I didn't feel anything. So, I guess that I can somewhat understand Ripped Up's post.

    The question is why would the effect go away for me. I was willing to think that Unleashed had no affect at all and that what I experienced early on was placebo. Now, I just don't know what the hell is happening.
    I doubt it is anything you would feel. Over time it would work to reduce SHBG and slighty increase testosterone levels though.
    I don't neg/infract/ban if you disagree with me in a civil discussion on any topic. I don't claim to be an expert on any subject and can always be proven wrong. But good luck trying ;)

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  16. #16
    Registered User rufus 20 4 7's Avatar
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    RippedUp, do you use a combo of oats and dextrose post work out or just dextrose? I have taken Alan Aragon's advice, as many others have, in his thread on proper workout nutrition. I now use oats and dextrose along with whey and creatine post workout. I wanted to see how you feel about this combo since you mentioned you made the switch from oats and low gi carbs to dextrose.
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  17. #17
    Very Old Member RippedUp's Avatar
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    Rufus,

    Dextrose only.

    I eat a wholesome meal ~75 minutes later.
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  18. #18
    Under your bed Z3R0-CooL's Avatar
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    good for u RippedUP...

    Finally dextrose once again proves to be a better choice for PWO not only absorbtion and digestion-wise but also from a hormonal prospective..

    i hope that more ppl with realize that and stop that non-sense PWO oatmeal.. which not only is hard to digest thus slow, but it has also 8gr of fat which make the absorbtion of nutrients, both carbs and protein slower...

    and i dont need all the BS studies that that guy posted on that thread about PWO nutrition...

    We all know the benefits of simple sugars(glucose/dextrose) PWO farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr outweigh the 1 negative that exists(supposedly promotes fat storage)...

    what i personally find ridiculous is that how can one suggest that, when after training glycogen stores in both liver and muscle are depleted....

    anyways.. i hope that the nonsense with oats PWO will stop now that someone with 6000+ posts said so.....
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  19. #19
    Very Old Member RippedUp's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
    Finally dextrose once again proves to be a better choice for PWO not only absorbtion and digestion-wise but also from a hormonal prospective..
    This is the only valid reason IMO.
    If it weren't for the hormonal perspective, the oatmeal option is still preferred.


    Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
    i hope that more ppl with realize that and stop that non-sense PWO oatmeal.. which not only is hard to digest thus slow, but it has also 8gr of fat which make the absorbtion of nutrients, both carbs and protein slower...

    It is not nonsense. The reasoning behind the low GI option is quite solid.


    Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
    We all know the benefits of simple sugars(glucose/dextrose) PWO farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr outweigh the 1 negative that exists(supposedly promotes fat storage)...
    Not really. Dextrose is the emptiest of all source of calories.


    Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
    what i personally find ridiculous is that how can one suggest that, when after training glycogen stores in both liver and muscle are depleted....
    Weight training does not deplete glycogen like cardiovascular exercise does. Replenishing them after training is overrated.


    Originally posted by Z3R0-CooL
    anyways.. i hope that the nonsense with oats PWO will stop now that someone with 6000+ posts said so.....
    No. It is important to keep an open mind and question everything.
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  20. #20
    Registered User Kaner's Avatar
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    What if I take in sugars at other occasions?
    I'm talking about cheat meals, birthday party cakes, etc.
    I usually stick to the lowest GI carbs and low-moderate around the workout, and only eat sugars when I "have to", or from fruits.
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  21. #21
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    Re: SHBG, Libido, and Insulin

    Originally posted by RippedUp
    I feel like a 17 y.o. again, wanting to do all women around..
    I do.
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    Registered User rufus 20 4 7's Avatar
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    I have a few more questions. Do you suggest a whole meal such as oats pre workout then a dex, whey combo post work out? Is adding milk to either of these helpful? Also, should I treat HIIT like I would weight training in terms of pre and post workout nutrition?

    Sorry about this, but these are the three questions that I always see 100 different opinions on.

    Thanks.
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    In persuit of perfection. The Shizzy's Avatar
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    i use oats post-workout.. nice lean gains, but i have noticed a decrease in sex drive now that i think about it ..
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    Very Old Member RippedUp's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rufus 20 4 7
    Do you suggest a whole meal such as oats pre workout then a dex, whey combo post work out?
    Yes, that is fine. Some people prefer eating protein and fat before a workout rather than protein + complex carbs. Depends how you feel.


    Originally posted by rufus 20 4 7
    Is adding milk to either of these helpful?
    I would avoid it post-WO though.


    Originally posted by rufus 20 4 7
    Also, should I treat HIIT like I would weight training in terms of pre and post workout nutrition?
    Not necessarily. You could have oatmeal and protein post-HIIT.
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    Registered User rufus 20 4 7's Avatar
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    That's what is confusing me though. If lifting does not deplete glycogen and HIIT does, why should I take dex post workout for lifting and slower digesting carbs after HIIT?
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    Very Old Member RippedUp's Avatar
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    There is more potential at burning fat with slow digesting carbs after HIIT than with dextrose.
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    Registered User Kaner's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RippedUp
    There is more potential at burning fat with slow digesting carbs after HIIT than with dextrose.
    That's what I always thought...
    I don't see how dumping a ton of insulin into your system helps the fat burning process in any way, even after you deplete yourself (which I don't think you do after only 15-20 minutes).
    I can't eat right after HIIT anyway. I usually wait a while before I do.
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    Registered User rufus 20 4 7's Avatar
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    That makes sense. I am bulking right now, is milk/oats/banana/whey shake good for post HIIT? Also, is it okay to combine creatine with a shake like this or should I use it at another time?
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