Power/Hang Clean instead of Deadlift?

[jayrey]

In my Weight Training class at school, my coach never puts a deadlift into our workout. I really didn't even know how beneficial a deadlift can be until I got on BB.com! We always had either power cleans or hang cleans instead of the deadlift as our major lifts. Then, I went to a sports conditioning gym where they set up a workout specifically for wrestlers, and once again, NO DEADLIFT! Are they trying to make me a pussy or is upper body just that much more important in my sport? I know that a properly done clean works the lower body too, but I doubt it will as much as a dead lift.

[danj112]

No high school weight lifting programs have conventional deads in their routines. Just ask him if you can do them.

Power clean is actually mostly lower body explosivness if done correctly

[jayrey]

Hmm... I mean it kinda has a deadlift in it at the start, but nowhere near enough weight if I'm going to try and pull that up even a little with my traps. I do have to use my upper body enough to get the rest of me under it though, right?

[danj112]

Originally Posted by jayrey

Hmm... I mean it kinda has a deadlift in it at the start, but nowhere near enough weight if I'm going to try and pull that up even a little with my traps. I do have to use my upper body enough to get the rest of me under it though, right?

First off, a standard deadlift isn't that important for sports performance, if at all. Power cleans serve a much better purpose for wrestling, that being explosiveness. Your coaches know what they're doing. Just trust them. They're there for a reason.

[3doz]

Originally Posted by jayrey

In my Weight Training class at school, my coach never puts a deadlift into our workout. I really didn't even know how beneficial a deadlift can be until I got on BB.com! We always had either power cleans or hang cleans instead of the deadlift as our major lifts. Then, I went to a sports conditioning gym where they set up a workout specifically for wrestlers, and once again, NO DEADLIFT! Are they trying to make me a pussy or is upper body just that much more important in my sport? I know that a properly done clean works the lower body too, but I doubt it will as much as a dead lift.

they do that to build your explosive strength.

[jayrey]

Well that's good to hear. Means I've been doing the right stuff for a good year now. Thanks

[rockhuddy]

Originally Posted by danj112

First off, a standard deadlift isn't that important for sports performance, if at all. Power cleans serve a much better purpose for wrestling, that being explosiveness. Your coaches know what they're doing. Just trust them. They're there for a reason.

Lol, are you joking? I'd rather have athletes deadlift than clean any day. The reason is that most guys' clean form is so bad that they're severely restricted in the amount of weight they can use. The muscles don't get stressed enough and they don't get stronger. Deadlifts are much easier to teach and allow for much greater loading. Also, olympic lifting tends to stress the quads more than deadlifting, which is relatively unimportant for athletic performance. The muscles of the posterior chain are much more involved in sports, and they're what the deadlift targets.

Just because the clean is labeled an 'explosive' lift doesn't mean much. Even though you do them fast, they are no different than any other exercise. If you want athletes to deadlift with lighter weights, it serves the same purpose (they're called speed pulls). The point is that there are many ways to make athletes explosive, but fewer ways to make them strong.

[billbryan]

Originally Posted by rockhuddy

Lol, are you joking? I'd rather have athletes deadlift than clean any day. The reason is that most guys' clean form is so bad that they're severely restricted in the amount of weight they can use. The muscles don't get stressed enough and they don't get stronger. Deadlifts are much easier to teach and allow for much greater loading. Also, olympic lifting tends to stress the quads more than deadlifting, which is relatively unimportant for athletic performance. The muscles of the posterior chain are much more involved in sports, and they're what the deadlift targets.

Just because the clean is labeled an 'explosive' lift doesn't mean much. Even though you do them fast, they are no different than any other exercise. If you want athletes to deadlift with lighter weights, it serves the same purpose (they're called speed pulls). The point is that there are many ways to make athletes explosive, but fewer ways to make them strong.

I just started working out 2weeks ago. I did some deadlifts and 24-36 hrs. later I felt much burn in my legs and especially in my lower back. Hell, I didn't know I had that many lower back muscles.


What are some great shoulder exercises that will provide a burn?

[Flying_Fox]

Originally Posted by rockhuddy

Lol, are you joking? I'd rather have athletes deadlift than clean any day. The reason is that most guys' clean form is so bad that they're severely restricted in the amount of weight they can use.

If you were a coach, you should teach them the power clean, not dropping it because it is a little harder than other exercises.

Originally Posted by rockhuddy

The muscles don't get stressed enough and they don't get stronger. Deadlifts are much easier to teach and allow for much greater loading. Also, olympic lifting tends to stress the quads more than deadlifting, which is relatively unimportant for athletic performance. The muscles of the posterior chain are much more involved in sports, and they're what the deadlift targets.

He's talking about power clean and hang clean, not olympic lifting. How does hang clean and power clean put more stress on the quads?


Finally, Bill Starr didn't teach the deadlift to he's athletes. Perhaps you are right, but at this point I'd rather trust Bill Starr.

[GoJu]

Originally Posted by Flying_Fox

If you were a coach, you should teach them the power clean, not dropping it because it is a little harder than other exercises.

He's talking about power clean and hang clean, not olympic lifting. How does hang clean and power clean put more stress on the quads?


Finally, Bill Starr didn't teach the deadlift to he's athletes. Perhaps you are right, but at this point I'd rather trust Bill Starr.

he's right, I have an article in which starr's recommends back squats, power shrugs, high pulls, power cleans and good mornings to increase your deadlifting, no deadlifting in it, check it out:

http://web.archive.org/web/200602141...approach1.html

cleans/snatches are more specific to sports explosiveness, though I admit their great weakness is the fact that you can't use as much weight, the reason most high school kids don't have proper form is because their coaches don't teach it, but as you get to high numbers in power cleans you'lll notice a lot of strength gains in the posterior chain and your deadlift, Oly lifters like Rezazedah who can clean and jerk 583 don't really do deadlifts but I wouldn't be suprised to hear he could pull over 800 or 900+.

oh and quads aren't used in sports, news to me, as Dan John said we stay on our heels (and use p-chain) in the gym but we stay on our toes (and use quads) in the field.

that being said, if you're not doing a deadlift in your routine you HAVE to squat heavy or you'll be missing out on strength on all types of pulls.

[fmrmarineinbiz]

Seems to me like a deadlift would be much easier to teach...especially younger people than a power clean. Back strength will only help you in wrestling anyway, right? Why not deadlift once a week when/if you're able?

[Flying_Fox]

Originally Posted by fmrmarineinbiz

Seems to me like a deadlift would be much easier to teach...especially younger people than a power clean. Back strength will only help you in wrestling anyway, right? Why not deadlift once a week when/if you're able?

Perhaps, but the power clean isn't rocket science and there is less risk of of lower back injury.

Besides, why would younger people have more trouble learning the power clean? It should be easier, as they are young.

[J.L.C.]

Cleans, and oly lifts in general - smoke my posterior chain.

Ever checked out the hams, glutes, and lower back of oly lifters? They usually have some pretty sick mid and upper back development too!

[stronglifts]

Originally Posted by jayrey

In my Weight Training class at school, my coach never puts a deadlift into our workout. I really didn't even know how beneficial a deadlift can be until I got on BB.com! We always had either power cleans or hang cleans instead of the deadlift as our major lifts. Then, I went to a sports conditioning gym where they set up a workout specifically for wrestlers, and once again, NO DEADLIFT! Are they trying to make me a pussy or is upper body just that much more important in my sport? I know that a properly done clean works the lower body too, but I doubt it will as much as a dead lift.

Deadlifts are great for absolute strength.
Powercleans are for maximal power.

Most sports give a preference to powercleans, because of the power development. All power need the ability to explode.

[danj112]

Originally Posted by rockhuddy

Lol, are you joking? I'd rather have athletes deadlift than clean any day.

You would? Just about every high school/college strength coach would beg to differ. I've never heard them deadlifting in the NFL combine or Pro Days, but they test power clean all the time.

If a kid doesn't power clean correctly that's his fault. That doesn't take away the fact that the exercise in itself builds explosivenss if done correctly, which plenty of students do. Ever hear of kids going into college power cleaning 300+ lbs. I'll take a stab in the dark, and guess that those are the ones who have done it correctly, and benefited from the exercise

[IRONMANN1]

Originally Posted by danj112

You would? Just about every high school/college strength coach would beg to differ. I've never heard them deadlifting in the NFL combine or Pro Days, but they test power clean all the time.

If a kid doesn't power clean correctly that's his fault. That doesn't take away the fact that the exercise in itself builds explosivenss if done correctly, which plenty of students do. Ever hear of kids going into college power cleaning 300+ lbs. I'll take a stab in the dark, and guess that those are the ones who have done it correctly, and benefited from the exercise

Power Cleans FTW...i've got em tonight.


fuggggggggggggggin incredible exercise