Am I stuck in the friends zone for good?

[Big Slim DaDDy]

Ok a chick says to me "I know you too well" in regards to anything sexual happening between us. Am I stuck in the void, or is there still hope for me?

[DTGG]

depense if she is interested in u man but it looks like it!

[BigZeke]

Yes, back away....Some girl told me we were good friends and she didnt want to ruin that. I haven't talked to her in 2 months.

[jackthatsteel]

i've been there. i asked a girl out that i was really good friends with right after her current bf dumped her. she said no. she said she needed me as a friend. so i swallowed my pride and remained friends with her and listened to her whine about her ex for like a month. but the secret was I showed absolutely no sexual interest in her. i basically became her gay guy friend. all the while i'm dressing to impress when she's around and always showing her a good time. finally, one night she was driving me home in my car because i was too drunk and passed out. when i woke up we were at a dead end of some road with not a house in sight. i looked around and said "wtf?" she gave me that i want you smile and we got it on in my car for the next 4 hours. so, yes there is hope. just be cool and calm and act like you don't want her

[imo]

Hey bro...

I feel ur pain and I'm sure almost every guy out there has been in ur position before. Currently, I'm working on a "dating help" book. (I don't know what to call it so "dating help" is the basic gist LOL).

But yea... ur problem is something I love to deal with because it's fun (to me anyway). First of all, the friendship frame is, by far, the hardest to break. But it CAN be done.

In order to break it though, you're going to have to be willing to make a lot of sacrifices and keep in mind that **** happens. Not all the time, but the possibility of it happening MUST exist in ur mind or else u'll be worse off later. let's get started. This is all a basic, quick overview. If I'm helping, let me know and we can go through it more and more.

The most common mistake amoung men is simple:

WUSSY behaviour. I define wussy as being a cross between a pussy and wimp.

Some simple (yet common) characteristics of a wussy are:

- Calling/coming in contact with her too often
- Neediness (leaning)
- Buying her stuff
- Going to great lengths for her
- Giving her all the power

I can go on and on and on about all these things and more but time doesn't permit me too. So instead let me give u a very short list of do's and don'ts:

- DONT call/see her more than 3 times a week.

- Accomodate HER into ur life, don't build ur life AROUND her. A simple example is this: She wants to go out dancing on Sunday but ur going to the mall. Say u're busy but she can TAG ALONG. If she says "no" say "meh" give her a half-smile and say "I'll see u later then." NEVER cancel your plans for her. Become, what I call, Selectively available. Available ONLY when u want to me.

- NEVER EVER tell her that u like her or are interested in her. If the damage is already done then UNDO it as best u can. I'll get to that in a minute. If she says "I like u," reply with something that will keep her guessing NOT a wimpy "oh i like u too." I prefer "I know" or "I bet u do" with a an eyebrow raised and a straight face (body language and tonality are IMPORTANT). If the damage is already done, time to undo it. The MAIN steps are: 1- find someone else to occupy ur mind. 2- DONT EVER favor her. 3- TEASE the hell outta her. When I say tease, I dont mean go around calling her a bitch. I mean something playful, funny, and ball busting, like "Uhh... nice shoes... I didn't know the dollar store had that color available." If she gives the the ever popular "U DID NOT JUST SAY THAT" look... for the love of God, DONT wuss out. A wuss would say "Oh I was just joking." If u want to pass that test say something like "Close ur mouth, I can't kiss an open fly trap." Then imediatly change the subject, "Hey did u see the new Brad pitt movie." (the last step makes it feel like ur being lighthearted and not serious).

These things help develop a great interest/attraction level in her. Now u're already stuck (Neck deep in seems) in the friendship frame. Here are some things that got u there:

- Growing tits and losing ur dick. Yep. Becoming one of her girlfriends. When a girl starts talking about "girl friend" type problems... MAKE HER STOP. U're a guy with an interest in her. If something she says sounds like it should be discussed at a slumber party, tell her straight: "WHOA... don't u have girlfriends or wussy guy friends that u should be talking to about that?" Say it slowly, in a calm voice with a half-smile so u don't come off as being a plain rude, *******. The change the subject to something interesting (NOT football or the typical guy stuff LOL).

- Telling her your feelings. This links to what I said above. The metrosexual fad is in but don't go around crying ur emotional heart out to her. HOLD IT IN. I know it's hard but do ur best. DON'T tell her all the mushy stuff u like. DON'T tell her how upset u are about ur ex girls. DON'T discuss DRAMA. These are things her girlfriends talk with her about. She doesn't expect her man to talk about these things. Now I'm not saying u should never have a small talk about life and drama with her. But I bet u're doing it a LOT. (hence the "I know u too well"). If u absolutly HAVE to, keep it to once a month and not more than 15 mins.

Now I was all over the place here and, for that, I appologise. I hope I did help u, at least a little. I need more details on the situation if I am to be of any more assistance. If I've helped in anyway please let me know and if u need more details/clarity etc. let me know that too.

Good luck man,

[Man, I_m Big]

TIP: If a girl says she knows you too well and you want her, it's time to back off. Take some time to yourself and just make some changes. It's happened to me before, this girl I knew went away to school and came back, so much had changed between us. It was awesome because we were like totally different people to each other. We had both grown up and matured, plus I got bigger and sexier, lol. You just gotta break the cycle, maybe when the two of you are older you'll really hit it off. It sounds like she's the one who needs to grow up thoug with that "I know you too well ****."

[delusive]

Originally posted by Big Slim DaDDy
Ok a chick says to me "I know you too well" in regards to anything sexual happening between us. Am I stuck in the void, or is there still hope for me?

Same sortof situation happened to me, but i was the one who shut her down. I dont believe that nonsense about you cant be friends with a girl unless your gay, anyhow. She just dumped her bf, been about a week and she started getting needy, since i knew her for a couple of years she started to turn to me, although we messed around a few times, she wanted to make it more, i know before hand i didnt want a relationship with her, that i didnt want anything to jepordize our friendship in the long run, she agreed and added she still wanted to sleep with me.

So the way i see it, i rather have her as a friend and still get laid everyother night, then becoming bf and gf and risking of losing her all together.

[Jimmy_magix]

Stop chasing her. Girls want what they cant have, start seeing yourself as something she CANT have, you'll notice the difference. Worked for me anyway. I've got a girl friend who I've done this on and the sexual tension between us is incredible. Im gonna hit it HARD when it happens.

[ChaosJester]

I would lessen the time you guys are together. You have become a dick in a glass case...

"Break open in case of emergencies."

[NiR]

Originally posted by Man, I'm Big
TIP: If a girl says she knows you too well and you want her, it's time to back off. Take some time to yourself and just make some changes. It's happened to me before, this girl I knew went away to school and came back, so much had changed between us. It was awesome because we were like totally different people to each other. We had both grown up and matured, plus I got bigger and sexier, lol. You just gotta break the cycle, maybe when the two of you are older you'll really hit it off. It sounds like she's the one who needs to grow up thoug with that "I know you too well ****."

i agree very much. this has happened before to me except i didnt actually take time off. i mean she goes to my school and we are very close friends and i realize that thats not going to change they way things are going and i am alright with that. i knew that the only way anything can happen is if i take time off from her and i am not talking about a few weeks or months. i am talking about atleast a year. this way when u meet again, its a new start. things will be forgotten and it will be your second chance. me i cant see me not seeing her for a year since she is a good friend.... and plus its impossible since she is in my school and has my number and stuff =/

[imo]

Originally posted by NiR
and plus its impossible since she is in my school and has my number and stuff =/

Back to the topic of Selective availability. Taking "time out" is wussy talk for "I need to move on." (No offence to anyone here). What u asked is how do I make her attracted in me. To do this u have to break the friendship frame (like I mentioned above), then create attraction.

Being selectively available is a major step in breaking the F frame. It's simple... even if she sees u everyday, has ur number etc etc... it doesn't matter.

- If she calls, tell her ur busy and to call u back later.
- Don't spend hours on the phone. 5-10 mins MAX for at least the first 2 weeks. Talk about interesting engaging stuff and JUST when the conversation is getting fun and interesting, cut it short. Say u have to go, u've got tons of work to do. She'll be disappointed but it'll leave her wanting more and more. She'll give u lines like "But... we're having fun" or "Don't u like me?" or "dont u wanna talk to me anymore?" or "but I miss u" or "We never talk nemore!" or "Nooo... dont go." DONT wuss out. Be firm and hit her back with something like "Like u? This isnt highschool! *laff a little* I have to go. Call me tomorrow.. no wait... call me Thursday." First of all this sets up the frames : I am the selector and not u. I have a life outside of u. I know u're having fun and I think that's cute but if u want more, ur going to have to work for it. U're CHALLENGING her! Every guy is dieing to keep her on the phone for hours... here u are being funny and engaging and u SEEM interested but at the same time dis-interested... keeping her guessing will keep u in her mind. Make sense? U can also use something like this : "I know u miss me... we can continue our conversation tomorrow over a cup of coffee/tea/watever (NOT dinner, keep it simple and casual). And if ur a good girl, u MIGHT get a hug." DONT hug her that time. If she asks for it, say u dont think she's ready and wink.

U're keeping her guessing, ur building up an air of mystery about u, and ur building up anticipation. In a month, (a lot of guys I've helped manage this in 3 weeks), she'll start calling u more, trying to set up more meetings etc. Keep doing what u've been doing and DONT cave in. Then, after a while, when u feel like she's really starting to get into u, and u're having a great conversation. Lean in, kiss her, get up and say "I've got to go. Big day tomorrow." Act like its totally natural. She'll have thought u've moved on. The kiss tells a different story and u LEAVING when everything was just becoming fun sets up a different story. She'll be thinking about u all day and night. DONT call her. Wait till she calls u. say ur busy and hang up. Call her later (the next day) and set up a meeting. Go hang out, and if ur hungry, suggest u grab dinner. After dinner go for a walk. The second there is a silence, kiss her. DONT hesitate.

These are all the very very basic stages in breaking the F frame and turning the relationship romantic. Follow the routine and if anything pops up that u're unsure about, ask and I'll help u out. If u need more details, just ask.

Good luck

Her missing u is a gift. It fulfills a need that women have. ANTICIPATION. Women LOVE it.

[NiR]

IMO:


ok what you said is actually very true. once in a while when i break the conversations(sometimes hourssss long ) she is like ,"noo dont go , u dont want to talk to me?" and things like that. but i have a question. first of all she does have a boyfriend, and second of all she knows so much stuff about me its like crazy. she even knows i liked her alot before but she knows i am past that and we are even so comfortable right now that i still joke around about the past. i even asked her actually yesterday that did i even have a chance before if i tried. she was like yep u had a big chance. and stuf flike that. but i always joke around after that such as "not like u had any chance with me ". but my question is how does her having a bf affect all of this. even if i act bzy she has bf and well nothing much will happen now. (she is very close to breaking up with him btw)

[Matt_Birks_15]

"OH NO IM IN THE FRIEND ZONE" - Chris rock

[Big Slim DaDDy]

Originally posted by NiR
IMO:


ok what you said is actually very true. once in a while when i break the conversations(sometimes hourssss long ) she is like ,"noo dont go , u dont want to talk to me?" and things like that. but i have a question. first of all she does have a boyfriend, and second of all she knows so much stuff about me its like crazy. she even knows i liked her alot before but she knows i am past that and we are even so comfortable right now that i still joke around about the past. i even asked her actually yesterday that did i even have a chance before if i tried. she was like yep u had a big chance. and stuf flike that. but i always joke around after that such as "not like u had any chance with me ". but my question is how does her having a bf affect all of this. even if i act bzy she has bf and well nothing much will happen now. (she is very close to breaking up with him btw)

Yeah this chick used to say stuff like that to me too but not anymore.


*update She's been hanging out with this gay guy lately(he really is gay) And I think he might have taken my place in a way..she's around him like every day..I see her like on the weekends but not very much and I talk to her on msn during the week, so breaking the friends barrier or whatever that guy called it looks like it might be easier than I thought

[Big Slim DaDDy]

Originally posted by imo
Hey bro...

I feel ur pain and I'm sure almost every guy out there has been in ur position before. Currently, I'm working on a "dating help" book. (I don't know what to call it so "dating help" is the basic gist LOL).

But yea... ur problem is something I love to deal with because it's fun (to me anyway). First of all, the friendship frame is, by far, the hardest to break. But it CAN be done.

In order to break it though, you're going to have to be willing to make a lot of sacrifices and keep in mind that **** happens. Not all the time, but the possibility of it happening MUST exist in ur mind or else u'll be worse off later. let's get started. This is all a basic, quick overview. If I'm helping, let me know and we can go through it more and more.

The most common mistake amoung men is simple:

WUSSY behaviour. I define wussy as being a cross between a pussy and wimp.

Some simple (yet common) characteristics of a wussy are:

- Calling/coming in contact with her too often
- Neediness (leaning)
- Buying her stuff
- Going to great lengths for her
- Giving her all the power

I can go on and on and on about all these things and more but time doesn't permit me too. So instead let me give u a very short list of do's and don'ts:

- DONT call/see her more than 3 times a week.

- Accomodate HER into ur life, don't build ur life AROUND her. A simple example is this: She wants to go out dancing on Sunday but ur going to the mall. Say u're busy but she can TAG ALONG. If she says "no" say "meh" give her a half-smile and say "I'll see u later then." NEVER cancel your plans for her. Become, what I call, Selectively available. Available ONLY when u want to me.

- NEVER EVER tell her that u like her or are interested in her. If the damage is already done then UNDO it as best u can. I'll get to that in a minute. If she says "I like u," reply with something that will keep her guessing NOT a wimpy "oh i like u too." I prefer "I know" or "I bet u do" with a an eyebrow raised and a straight face (body language and tonality are IMPORTANT). If the damage is already done, time to undo it. The MAIN steps are: 1- find someone else to occupy ur mind. 2- DONT EVER favor her. 3- TEASE the hell outta her. When I say tease, I dont mean go around calling her a bitch. I mean something playful, funny, and ball busting, like "Uhh... nice shoes... I didn't know the dollar store had that color available." If she gives the the ever popular "U DID NOT JUST SAY THAT" look... for the love of God, DONT wuss out. A wuss would say "Oh I was just joking." If u want to pass that test say something like "Close ur mouth, I can't kiss an open fly trap." Then imediatly change the subject, "Hey did u see the new Brad pitt movie." (the last step makes it feel like ur being lighthearted and not serious).

These things help develop a great interest/attraction level in her. Now u're already stuck (Neck deep in seems) in the friendship frame. Here are some things that got u there:

- Growing tits and losing ur dick. Yep. Becoming one of her girlfriends. When a girl starts talking about "girl friend" type problems... MAKE HER STOP. U're a guy with an interest in her. If something she says sounds like it should be discussed at a slumber party, tell her straight: "WHOA... don't u have girlfriends or wussy guy friends that u should be talking to about that?" Say it slowly, in a calm voice with a half-smile so u don't come off as being a plain rude, *******. The change the subject to something interesting (NOT football or the typical guy stuff LOL).

- Telling her your feelings. This links to what I said above. The metrosexual fad is in but don't go around crying ur emotional heart out to her. HOLD IT IN. I know it's hard but do ur best. DON'T tell her all the mushy stuff u like. DON'T tell her how upset u are about ur ex girls. DON'T discuss DRAMA. These are things her girlfriends talk with her about. She doesn't expect her man to talk about these things. Now I'm not saying u should never have a small talk about life and drama with her. But I bet u're doing it a LOT. (hence the "I know u too well"). If u absolutly HAVE to, keep it to once a month and not more than 15 mins.

Now I was all over the place here and, for that, I appologise. I hope I did help u, at least a little. I need more details on the situation if I am to be of any more assistance. If I've helped in anyway please let me know and if u need more details/clarity etc. let me know that too.

Good luck man,

Your helping so, do go on

[WhatsUp]

ignore her for a couple monthes and then try again

[darshahlu]

Originally posted by BigZeke
Yes, back away....Some girl told me we were good friends and she didnt want to ruin that. I haven't talked to her in 2 months.

HAHA!!

same here man. This girl and I were messing around for a bit, and I made it clear to her (like the second or third time we ****ed around) that I didn't want a gf. Apparently, she was wishful thinking becuase for the couple of weeks we ****ed around she thought I had changed my mind or something. Obviously I hadn't so she got a BF and tried to use him against me by making me choose to be her BF or choose to be single. If i went single, she would get w/ her new guy.

guess what i did!

PEACE OUT BEYOTCH.

Anyway, now she wants to be friends, and she always IM's me or calls me. I deleted her number and contact info.

Girls are either **** buddies or acquantences I can use to meet other potential **** buddies. (Honestly, I can't think of a girl that I'm merely friends with.)

[BigZeke]

Yah I deleted that girl's number off my phone and I deleted her MSN too. I don't need to be friends with girls, I just want to **** them.

[ripped_holla]

Bottom line...if you think you're in the "let's just be friends" zone, then you probably are.

[Bionik]

She might not find you sexually attractive...

[TheBreakerKF]

Originally posted by Matt_Birks_15
"OH NO IM IN THE FRIEND ZONE" - Chris rock

what are guy friends to your girlfriend? they're the ones she'll be ****in when you **** up - Chris Rock

=p

[BigZeke]

Don't try and work your way out of the friend zone, because it won't work. I've tried. Girls call it the "Dicks I can have, but don't want" zone for a reason.

[Big Slim DaDDy]

Originally posted by BigZeke
Don't try and work your way out of the friend zone, because it won't work. I've tried. Girls call it the "Dicks I can have, but don't want" zone for a reason.

Your probably right

[Whoopazz]

Bump, good thread....

[Shaggy4g63]

I went threw a very painful/learning /dumb experience that lasted a good 3 years...the last 1 beign the ****tiest...now I don't talk to her she will email me or message me like every 3-4 weeks or so asking about me and telling me abit about what she is doing...but I dont' really talk or type to much.

I realised that it was pointless and we had to grow up and could not be friends even though she wanted that (she didn't know what she wanted)....my situation was like a freak highbride version of a friend zone relationship cause I actually fell in love with this girl without even knowing it.

All I have to say is move on it is not worth it no matter what...trust me I spent years torturing myself so move on

ya you could act distant and everythign stated above which I did and it worked for a short period of time...but it isnt' worth it

If you want to waste your time and possible just feel ****tier then act distant keep convo's short and lively dotn' be a wuss and it might work...I did come outta the friend zone only to be put back in it then brought in close then pushed away then brought in close then pushed away....I learned a hell of alot but it was gay as **** I can say...

[Sandbag]

Blah blah blah!!!!!!

Forget the PUA stuff...

Man up and kiss her. You'll both know
right away. She likes you too much to
push you away... so she'll let it happen.
If she feels something when you two kiss
the friendship is over and the relationship
begins.

Been there. I kissed my female-friend and we've
been together for over 10 years now. Married 5yrs.

[imo]

Originally posted by NiR
IMO:


but my question is how does her having a bf affect all of this. even if i act bzy she has bf and well nothing much will happen now. (she is very close to breaking up with him btw)

Don't try to speed up the break up. Infact, don't get involved in that mess at all. Doing so just comes across as needy. And NEVER say "he's bad for u" or anything stupid like that.

Have u ever noticed how, when a girl's inlove, that everyone tells her how bad the guy is for her. And she says "I know... but i love him." Attraction is not something we have control over. Especially women. They don't just decide "hmmm this guy has a nice car, he's funny, he's sexy... i think I'll start being attracted to him." It just doesn't work that way.

Just keep being "The Man." Be sarcastically funny, tease her, be selectivly available, don't do her favors just cuz u wanna bang her. She'll just become attracted to u and lose interest in the other guy. The better u are, the faster she'll lose interest in him.

I've had several situations where a friend living in another state would brake up with her bf, and fly all the way down here to "hang out" with me. People do crazy things when they have that desire. It sounds far fetched and people often go "oh thats bull ****."

Just try it. See what happens. Infact, go out to a coffee shop or a restaurant and chill there. Just sit around watching couples. Notice the guys that are successful and notice the guys that get the girl yawning, rolling her eyes, or just being cold.

Think about it this way. An OK looking girl gets approached by guys at LEAST 5 times a week. And thats being extremly conservative. They all do the same things. Buy her stuff, compliment her everyday, call her up like lost puppys, try to kiss her when the moment SUCKS, PRETENDING to be confident... What's gonna set u out from the rest?

Try it. U'll be surprised at how many guys she'll reject and trash just to be with u if u hit all the right attraction buttons.

[imo]

Aight, I want to address a lot of things peeps have said.

First off, no where did I say to distance urself. That's the 3rd worst thing u can do. If u distance urself, she WILL forget about u. In a few rare circumstances it MAY work. But if u wanna go on with the "might happen" scenario, then just keep buying her things and kissing her ass and MAYBE she'll touch ur weener.

In quantum physics the theory is if u keep banging ur head on a wall eventually ur head will go thru it and the wall wont exist. That wont happen in real life. If u keep doing what doesn't work, there is no chance that it will just start working.

Becoming selectivly available, means u still do stuff with her but not as much. U do it, WHEN u feel the most comfortable. If ur comfy all the time, then set a limit. Never engage with her for more than 4 times a week. Be busy. Find something to do.

When u do engage with her, keep the meeting/conversation short. 10 to 30 mins MAX. I personally keep phone calls at a max of 10 mins. And a meeting at around 20 mins. So what's this do? And how is it different from distancing?

This sets up the frame: I have a life outside of u. I'm aware that other guys are kissing ur ass and I'm not one of them and never will be; if u want me, U'RE gonna have to work for it. It keeps her wanting more. Here's a very very powerful question that I always like to ask the guys I take out girl hunting: How do u make someone want something? There are tons of great answers and one of them is: Give them a small taste at first. Keep teasing them. Give them a bite of candy and take it away and they'll want more and more. She'll eventually start breaking appointments to be with u, disrupting HER life to be with u. Why? Because she doesn't get to do it often and this might be her only chance.

U prolly heard this one before: you ask "why arent u going to x" and she replies with "cuz... i wanna spend time with u"

Here's a quick story. There's this girl I liked a year ago. I was going through something so I never did anything right. Then when things cleared up, I started behaving right. Being selectivly available, teasing etc. She'd beg me to walk her to her class, she'd purposing ask if we could take a longer route to her class and when I said I was too lazy to walk that much she'd say "Please... I wanna spend time with u... don't u like me?" And I'd reply with "Like u? This isnt highschool. Neway, I'm too lazy." She'd say "even for me?" And i'd grin and say "especially for u." She ended up ditching her classes just to hang around.

U should have this frame of mind: "This is MY reality and everyone else is just a guest. I will not tolerate any disrespect to my time, my way of life or to me in general." Think about it. Girls HAVE that frame set in. When a guy kisses her ass and she brushes him off that's him being a guest in HER reality.

As for the "maybe she doesnt find u sexually attractive." BS. Girls, thankfully, don't qualify people the way guys do. Of course looks can help, but they're definatly not on the top of a girls list. I know a guy, 5'2, thin and very wimpy looking. But he doesnt carry himself like that. He's so full of confidence it's just amazing. He NEVER dates a girl thats less than an 8. I can't remember a time that I've seen him "dateless." It's all about who u are, body language, tonality etc. Watch a Jame bond movie. Look at how bond behaves. He's arrogant, but funny. He teases girls. He does things on HIS terms (selectivly available). Watch his body language.

The next thing I want to address is "just man up and kiss her." Have u ever heard a girl talking about her "creepy friend" that just kissed her? If u want to fall into the "ummm ok... step away dude... ur a FRIEND" catagory... then go ahead and just kiss her. Unless she feels attracted to u, a kiss out of nowhere is just wierd.

Build up her attraction for u. Then when u set up a meeting, when the moment is right, in the middle of her sentence, lean in and kiss her lightly. NO TONGUE. Just a simple kiss on the lips. Then continue talking as if nothing happened. Lean back (don't project neediness). Then lean in and kiss her again, longer this time. Then take a step back and just hold her hands.

What I like to do is while we're talking, I'll take her hands, make her stand up and hug her tight. Then sit down, still holding her hands, and say "I just wanted to hug u" or "I thought I deserved a good hug." Now u've hugged her, which obviously shows ur interested in her and u didnt have to be a wuss and tell her "i like u." AND ur holding her hands. so while talking its easier to pull her closer and smell her hair. Go slowly. Build anticipation. give her a little, then pull back. 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Smell her hair and whisper to her telling her how good it smells. now that ur closer, keep smelling her hair/neck and talking to her as if its totally natural. Then after a while kiss her lightly.

See how easily one thing leads to another?

And finally, the friends frame. Is it worth all the work to break it? For most people I'd say no. I do it because I love the challenge. I'm bored with going out and getting girls. It's so easy that my friends and I started making bets: who can say the most outrageous thing to a girl and have her still smile in 5 mins. Who can say ruff/meow the most in a conversation and act like nothing happened. Things like that got boring too. It was just too easy. So we set up a new "game." We started becoming friends with girls, setting up the frame and trying to see how fast we can break it.

To me its fun because I love the challenge. U're suffering from, what i call, the one track mind syndrome. U're focusing on ONE girl. Therefore ur doing ur damdest to be with her. Ur coming off a needy etc. The smallest things u do she intereprets as wuss behaviour. U might not notice it, but girls do. They are the ultimate wuss detectors. I never recommend a guy waste time breaking the F frame because more times than not, the girl isnt worth it. But if u really want to get this girl, now u know how, so go for it. whether u decide u want to or not is up to u. U asked how and I've told u

peace

[Big Slim DaDDy]

^Your advice is very good, what I want to know though..is I talk to this girl on msn like every day, sometimes for hours at a time..and she's always the one to log off first...should I be making myself more "selectively available" like only logging on for 20-30 minutes at a time?


Also I was talking to her the other day(msn) and she started giving me 1 word answers over and over again and I said something along the lines of "wtf whats with all the one word answers?" she says "I dont know" I say "Well I just dont like having conversations with myself ya know?" she says "I get it" and the conversation become 2 sided again after that. Was this good or was this in a way wuss behavior from me? (Or Stud behaviour ? )

[imo]

Originally posted by Big Slim DaDDy
^Your advice is very good, what I want to know though..is I talk to this girl on msn like every day, sometimes for hours at a time..and she's always the one to log off first...should I be making myself more "selectively available" like only logging on for 20-30 minutes at a time?


Also I was talking to her the other day(msn) and she started giving me 1 word answers over and over again and I said something along the lines of "wtf whats with all the one word answers?" she says "I dont know" I say "Well I just dont like having conversations with myself ya know?" she says "I get it" and the conversation become 2 sided again after that. Was this good or was this in a way wuss behavior from me? (Or Stud behaviour ? )

I love those 2 questions. Let's start with the first one.

2 rules u ALWAYS have to follow. (When I say always I usually mean 98% of the time. The other 2% is incase u forget lol.)

ALWAYS end phone calls first. Always be the first to end contact.

Being selectivly available doesn't mean u disappear. It means ur busy and will be available TO TALK TO OR BE WITH HER when U want to. So start off this way:
- DONT be the first to pm her. If she wants u, let HER pm U. If she doesn't, it's her loss.
- Only talk to her 4 times MAX a week. If she pms u to talk, be selectively available and say "I'm busy right now, I'll talk to u later." Or the most powerful one I use occasionally is "I'm talking to some ppl right now, I'll talk to u later." She'll respond with "Oh so Im not important??" To which I reply "NO... ur so stupid! I hate talking to u! What's the matter? feeling insecure? LoL... Go on, I'll see u later sometime." Just look at how powerful that is.
- I love msn and yahoo because it allows u to post statuses or, on msn, change ur name. Use this to ur advantage. Ppl change their msn names all the time to reflect whats going on or inside jokes etc. Use this to ur advantage. Pick an inside joke with one of ur other friends (prefrebly a girl she doesn't know) and stick it up on ur name. If she asks whats that about, say "Well aren't u the nosy one?" and then proceed to tease her about how she's like an old revered's wife gossiping and poking her nose everywhere. Do it in a FUNNY light hearted way.

Now... on to teasing: I had a guy walk up to a girl and go "SKANK", get slapped and he laffed, and walked away. I can't take responsibility for stupidity so make sure u don't go do something just plain dumb.

Second question:
Talking to her everyday on msn will lead to Saturation. The concept of saturation is massive but I'll cover the very basics here and I know tons of PUA's (pickup artists...note: NOT pickup LINE artists.. explained later). who will attest to what I'm gonna tell u.

Saturation is typically relationship behaviour which is reserved for when ur OFFICALLY bf/gf. If ur only dating or friends at the moment, saturation is BAD. VERY bad!

If u eat pizza everyday u WILL get sick of it. It'll bore u insanely. Same thing with this girl, u're boring her by being there all the time. Saturation, simply put, is when u talk to her so much that there's hardly much to say. She knows u inside out. There's no mystery about u. u're like a movie she's watched a million times.

Solution? simple. have a time limit on how long u talk to her for. How long do u talk before she leaves? Cut it by ten minutes and leave then. u dont have to log off, just say ur going to do something and u'll see her later. I'd typically keep it very short. Half an hour at max. She knows u too well... It's time u corrected that.

As for what u said to her. That's a step. Here's putting it clearly:
An ******* says "No" angrily. I say it calmly.
The way u said it comes off as "I'm frustrated, I like u so much and it hurts when ur not talking to me." Picture this instead:
"Wow... silence... it's OK girl... I know I'm intimidating but try ur best to keep up with the conversation."

Or ask her "How many people are u talking to?" or "What are u doing"
If she's doing something or talking to someone else, say "Aight, well pm me when u've finished with whatever ur doing, lates"
She'll argue and say "no no I can still talk" say "u coulda fooled me... prove it"

Notice how the *******s and abusive guys (the "badboy" archetype) always have the girls. Pamela anderson was with tommy lee for years even tho he treated her like **** and beat her all the time. Why? Cuz he had certain qualities that made him a MAN. he took those qualities to the extreme tho. Like I mentioned before theres a difference between how an ******* says something and how u should say it to create attraction.

U had ur reality defined and she was a guest. When she disrespected ur time u called her on it. So what u did was great... HOW u did it, could be improved. u did it in a needy way. Next time do it in an indifferent way. U want her to hear "Ur wasting my time by not talking so I'm gonna go do something else"

When I chat to someone and the conversation gets slow, I usually say "I'm gonna go watch a movie or do something else, pm me when u've got something interesting to talk about."

It sounds rude and guys might think "oh shes gonna think im an *******" but what she hears is "whoa... he's actually qualifing me... it doesnt matter if i look hot... if i cant keep him interested... hes not gonna talk to me..."

U're reveresing the role. Instead of HER being the selector, u're doing the selecting.

I've been thru what u've talked about (regarding the msn behavior) and trust me, busting her balls, teasing her, standing up for urself etc will snap her back into reality. Try it and see for urself.

Neway, I said I was gonna talk about PUA's. Some on said don't listen to PUA advice. Well why would anyone want to listen to something that WORKS right? *rolls his eyes*

Pickup artists are ppl that are skilled in "picking up" women. Pickup LINE artists are skilled in running their mouth. BIG difference. Just wanted to highlight that

Good luck.