Maryland adopts 'living wage': $11.30

[Dr.Strange]

I know its by the associate press by damn... 11.30?
Nice progressive movement (*sarcasm*)

Maryland adopts 'living wage': $11.30

It's the first state to join dozens of municipalities in setting pay standards for those who do business with government. Workers in rural areas will get an $8.50-an-hour minimum.
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By The Associated Press

Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley has signed the nation's first statewide "living wage" law, a measure that requires state contractors to pay workers $11.30 an hour in Baltimore and other areas where it is more expensive to live and at least $8.50 in the rest of the state.

O'Malley, a Democrat, said he pushed for the legislation to make sure that people who work on a contract funded by the state will be treated "in a fair and just and decent way, so that you will be able to put food on your family's table for your day of labor on behalf of the people of our state."

"It's the right thing to do," O'Malley said. "It's the fair thing to do."

The law, which will take effect in October, was cheered by labor and civil rights groups. It is modeled on local laws across the country, but advocacy groups say it is the first statewide law. It affects contracts worth at least $100,000 and includes loopholes for the University System of Maryland and some other state agencies, such as the Maryland State Lottery. The wage requirement also wouldn't apply to 16-year-olds or nonprofits.

The measure allows employers to reduce the amount they have to pay workers if they pay for health insurance for affected employees.

Sean Dobson, director of a grassroots organization called Progressive Maryland that represents working families, applauded the governor and state leaders for making Maryland the first state to approve the law, saying it's an effective way to fight poverty.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...gWage1130.aspx

[TricepsNGirls]

It may drive up the price of certain labor products, but when the minimum wage and lack of job benefits make employment less appealing than welfare, you have a bigger problem.

[lordofchaos]

wow... the liberals are at it again making the chasm between the rich and poor larger and trying to eliminate the middle class...

[Gadsden]

this better not affect the blue crab harvest.....

[IraHays]

Confession of a libertarian:

My name is Ira, I'm a conservative, and I'm not against the minimum wage.

*save me*

[TricepsNGirls]

wow... the liberals are at it again making the chasm between the rich and poor larger and trying to eliminate the middle class...

Ok then...

You probably don't have much experience in small-business ownership nor their large-business counterparts, but paying low-wage employees constitutes a very small fraction of operational expenses. You'd be surprised at how much reasonably well-run shops can make. A discreet bakery or even liquor store can net in well over 3x the avg household income.

It must be a joke if you think this is going to affect the middle class. It won't even affect the upper class since they'll still get their profit. Conservative economics is what causes income disparity. In the end, you can't trust corporations to self-regulate and be socially responsible. The minimum wage is just a small part of that.

[SupaDJDiesel]

wow... the liberals are at it again making the chasm between the rich and poor larger and trying to eliminate the middle class...

That is the least sensical thing anyone could say.

Good move on the part of Maryland. Minimum wage workers are human beings, lest we forget. Anyone that works a 40 hour week in the richest country in the world should not have to live in poverty.

[xer0xed]

It may drive up the price of certain labor products, but when the minimum wage and lack of job benefits make employment less appealing than welfare, you have a bigger problem.

Then you increase the amount of $ specific to that contract...

It must be a joke if you think this is going to affect the middle class. It won't even affect the upper class since they'll still get their profit. Conservative economics is what causes income disparity. In the end, you can't trust corporations to self-regulate and be socially responsible. The minimum wage is just a small part of that.

What's so bad about income disparity?

And... what are they being held "socially responsible" for? They set up shop and offered the employees a deal that made both parties better off, and they took it. I fail to see what the crime is here.

[lordofchaos]

Ok then...

You probably don't have much experience in small-business ownership nor their large-business counterparts, but paying low-wage employees constitutes a very small fraction of operational expenses. You'd be surprised at how much reasonably well-run shops can make. A discreet bakery or even liquor store can net in well over 3x the avg household income.

It must be a joke if you think this is going to affect the middle class. It won't even affect the upper class since they'll still get their profit. Conservative economics is what causes income disparity. In the end, you can't trust corporations to self-regulate and be socially responsible. The minimum wage is just a small part of that.

You don't know much about the economy or the history of minimum wage increases do you?

When you raise the minimum wage, a large portion of people under that get a raise, however, the people who make over that, don't get much of a raise at all, so now you have those people who used to have a decent job at $12/hr making just a little more than minimum wage.. not good for them at all.

Now look ahead at the long term, when you raise minimum wage, companies have to pay out more, and this DOES hurt the little privately owned shops (I know 5 places that were mom and pop places that went under due to not being able to pay the new wages out here in Alb. when they raised theirs, and it was not this drastic of a raise). So they have to charge more for their products/services or go under. Like it or not, a drastic increase in wages will always mean an increase in cost. That means that when you get down to it, you will have an increase in inflation (always follows a minimum wage increase, go look at the record books)

Now, so you have the poor at minimum wage who get a large raise, and the inflation rate increases to catch up with them, and they are slightly better off than before, because the inflation doesn't increase as much as their wage did. However, when you look at the middle class, and more specifically, the middle middle class, they are much WORSE off than before the minimum wage hike because you are increasing inflation and cost of living much more drastically than they got a raise to cover.

What this serves to do is make the poor marginally wealthier, the middle class becomes poorer, and the wealthy who have the cash to make up for it are basically uneffected...

Basically, one of my friends put it best when he said, "All minimum wage hikes do is allow the lazy to make more for doing the same thing, at the expense of those who actually try"

[TricepsNGirls]

What's so bad about income disparity?

Not enough people able to rationally afford the fruits of labor, too much leverage in the hands of too few, sub-sustenance conditions in the lower class.

And... what are they being held "socially responsible" for? They set up shop and offered the employees a deal that made both parties better off, and they took it. I fail to see what the crime is here.

There's no crime here or in government regulation.

[user23960508710783]

All I know is that prior to the minimum wage and other laws to protect the average worker, we had people, some of them kids, working all day for next to nothing.

[SupaDJDiesel]

Basically, one of my friends put it best when he said, "All minimum wage hikes do is allow the lazy to make more for doing the same thing, at the expense of those who actually try"

So all people who work minimum wage jobs are lazy? That's quite a mentality.

I can't stand the BS that it so negatively affects small business. My mother owns a small business and all of her employees make $15/hr. Granted, we're in NY, so let's call it $12 to make it fair to the rest of the country. She doesn't have to pay more than $7.15, but she's a good human being that has a fairly successful business. If the examples that you cited are true, then those 5 "mom and pop" businesses were failures from the start. If a $50/week increase in expenditure is what sinks your business, then you have a lot more problems than minimum wage laws.

[xer0xed]

Not enough people able to rationally afford the fruits of labor, too much leverage in the hands of too few, sub-sustenance conditions in the lower class.



There's no crime here or in government regulation.

If they "couldn't afford it," then the prices of what they couldn't afford would be lowered to maximize profit for the sellers.

Sure, when that regulation is useless and harms the general welfare of society... there is.

[TricepsNGirls]

You don't know much about the economy or the history of minimum wage increases do you?

When you raise the minimum wage, a large portion of people under that get a raise, however, the people who make over that, don't get much of a raise at all, so now you have those people who used to have a decent job at $12/hr making just a little more than minimum wage.. not good for them at all.

Now look ahead at the long term, when you raise minimum wage, companies have to pay out more, and this DOES hurt the little privately owned shops (I know 5 places that were mom and pop places that went under due to not being able to pay the new wages out here in Alb. when they raised theirs, and it was not this drastic of a raise). So they have to charge more for their products/services or go under. Like it or not, a drastic increase in wages will always mean an increase in cost. That means that when you get down to it, you will have an increase in inflation (always follows a minimum wage increase, go look at the record books)

Now, so you have the poor at minimum wage who get a large raise, and the inflation rate increases to catch up with them, and they are slightly better off than before, because the inflation doesn't increase as much as their wage did. However, when you look at the middle class, and more specifically, the middle middle class, they are much WORSE off than before the minimum wage hike because you are increasing inflation and cost of living much more drastically than they got a raise to cover.

What this serves to do is make the poor marginally wealthier, the middle class becomes poorer, and the wealthy who have the cash to make up for it are basically uneffected...

Basically, one of my friends put it best when he said, "All minimum wage hikes do is allow the lazy to make more for doing the same thing, at the expense of those who actually try"

You're going by the rationale that the poor and minimum-wage workers are lazy, which isn't true. Also, the localized "inflation" you refer to only has to do with business's unwillingness to absorb the increased cost of labor, resulting in higher product costs, not inflation.

One thing we should be able to agree on is that (1) hikes in the minimum wage will decrease job opportunities and (2) existing workers will be worked harder. Specifically, unproductive workers will be booted. I don't see any problem with this, and I'm sure you don't either. Work ethic needs to be strong all around, and the minimum wage is not an excuse to slack.

[TricepsNGirls]

Also, you don't own the small businesses so you really wouldn't know. A small shop goes under due to poor business, not worker compensation. Businesses can afford to pay workers more - it simply marginalizes some of their profits.

[lordofchaos]

So all people who work minimum wage jobs are lazy? That's quite a mentality.

I can't stand the BS that it so negatively affects small business. My mother owns a small business and all of her employees make $15/hr. Granted, we're in NY, so let's call it $12 to make it fair to the rest of the country. She doesn't have to pay more than $7.15, but she's a good human being that has a fairly successful business. If the examples that you cited are true, then those 5 "mom and pop" businesses were failures from the start. If a $50/week increase in expenditure is what sinks your business, then you have a lot more problems than minimum wage laws.

no, but those who wish to have more in life and are willing to work for it will end up with more than a minimum wage job. Minimum wage jobs are not something that you use to support your family. They are jobs for students, second incomes, etc.

and btw, that $15/hr is way different than $12/hr in the rest of the country. To put it in perspective, I have a college degree and work for a fairly decent paying company in my area (pays about average for my job in my area) and I make $20/hr...

Know who gets hurt if you raise the minium wage to $10-11/hr here, ME. I don't get raises that cover the cost of living increase as it is so I am slowly sliding down the ladder (government based payscale and the cost of living is increasing faster than my pay rate), then add in artificially increased raises in inflation by raising the minimum wage, and I get to fall further and faster. And I am not the only one, this is the plight of the middle class in america as minimum wages rise.

You may make it less of a gap between between the rich and the poor, but you kill the middle class pushing us fully back to where the old money families want us to be, a fuedal state with no middle class and almost impossible to move between classes. (you know, the old money families like those that Kerry, Teddy the murdering senator, etc belong too)

also, if the buisness can't/won't (and really why should they as they are in the buisness of making money, that is the point of any and all buisnesses) absorb the increase in costs to them, it does cause inflation. Granted it is a different type of inflation, but it occurs, and it hurts the middle class taking us closer to a 2 class system...

[lordofchaos]

Also, you don't own the small businesses so you really wouldn't know. A small shop goes under due to poor business, not worker compensation. Businesses can afford to pay workers more - it simply marginalizes some of their profits.

But when you raise a minimum wage, more than just the buisness's cost of worker compensation goes up. They also end up paying more for goods because their suppliers costs went up, forcing them to charge more (inflation) or go out of buisness if the market won't accept a rise in cost.

[xer0xed]

But when you raise a minimum wage, more than just the buisness's cost of worker compensation goes up. They also end up paying more for goods because their suppliers costs went up, forcing them to charge more (inflation) or go out of buisness if the market won't accept a rise in cost.

Yep, so products even that had demand before would no long be offered due to lack of business

[frankenstein]

You don't know much about the economy or the history of minimum wage increases do you?

When you raise the minimum wage, a large portion of people under that get a raise, however, the people who make over that, don't get much of a raise at all, so now you have those people who used to have a decent job at $12/hr making just a little more than minimum wage.. not good for them at all.

Now look ahead at the long term, when you raise minimum wage, companies have to pay out more, and this DOES hurt the little privately owned shops (I know 5 places that were mom and pop places that went under due to not being able to pay the new wages out here in Alb. when they raised theirs, and it was not this drastic of a raise). So they have to charge more for their products/services or go under. Like it or not, a drastic increase in wages will always mean an increase in cost. That means that when you get down to it, you will have an increase in inflation (always follows a minimum wage increase, go look at the record books)

Now, so you have the poor at minimum wage who get a large raise, and the inflation rate increases to catch up with them, and they are slightly better off than before, because the inflation doesn't increase as much as their wage did. However, when you look at the middle class, and more specifically, the middle middle class, they are much WORSE off than before the minimum wage hike because you are increasing inflation and cost of living much more drastically than they got a raise to cover.

What this serves to do is make the poor marginally wealthier, the middle class becomes poorer, and the wealthy who have the cash to make up for it are basically uneffected...

Basically, one of my friends put it best when he said, "All minimum wage hikes do is allow the lazy to make more for doing the same thing, at the expense of those who actually try"

Excellent explanation!!! Unfortunately, making sense like this will largely fall on deaf ears.
I'd have to watch the rest of the documentary, but I remember Milton Friedman explaining that by having minimum wage laws (especially ones like this) what you end up doing is making sure that these people are unemployable.

Almost NO ONE besides teenagers or waiters (95% of money is tips) earns minimum wage anyhow. Of those who do, virtually all move on to making a few dollars more than minimum wage within a few months. If you can't make at least $8 an hour from your job, you either dropped out of high school, are a recovering addict, or just got out of prison. I apologize for speaking the truth.

[Fidelis]

You don't know much about the economy or the history of minimum wage increases do you?

When you raise the minimum wage, a large portion of people under that get a raise, however, the people who make over that, don't get much of a raise at all, so now you have those people who used to have a decent job at $12/hr making just a little more than minimum wage.. not good for them at all.

You're not completely explicit here so let me see if this is what you are saying:

By raising minimum wage, the real wages of other workers are decreased because the prices of certain goods/services will rise?

However, what if prices have already risen to the point that an increase in minimum wage is necessary to meet the increased cost of living? Wouldn't a raise in minimum wage be justified?

[lordofchaos]

You're not completely explicit here so let me see if this is what you are saying:

By raising minimum wage, the real wages of other workers are decreased because the prices of certain goods/services will rise?

Yes. That is exactly what will happen. Minimum wage increases cause cost increases to the buisnesses, which like the majority of other cost increases, they will pass along to the customers in the form of higher priced goods/services. So when you add in that the majority of the workforce gets payed only marginally more, and you are causing a large increase in cost to the companies (thus the people) the real wage of the middle class in particular (the people who don't have the extra income to cover this that they can draw from) is lowered, and it brings us closer to a 2 class system with just wealthy and poor.

[TricepsNGirls]

Know who gets hurt if you raise the minium wage to $10-11/hr here, ME. I don't get raises that cover the cost of living increase as it is so I am slowly sliding down the ladder (government based payscale and the cost of living is increasing faster than my pay rate), then add in artificially increased raises in inflation by raising the minimum wage, and I get to fall further and faster. And I am not the only one, this is the plight of the middle class in america as minimum wages rise.

You are assuming a cost of living increase and inflation. The low-income community has never been an economic burden. Better wages also = more spending and more tax revenue. The main issue is monetary redistribution, which you see as low-class intrusion, a terrible mentality to hold.

Essentially, you would like to seem them cemented far below you, is that not true?

[frankenstein]

You're not completely explicit here so let me see if this is what you are saying:

By raising minimum wage, the real wages of other workers are decreased because the prices of certain goods/services will rise?

However, what if prices have already risen to the point that an increase in minimum wage is necessary to meet the increased cost of living? Wouldn't a raise in minimum wage be justified?

You can expect inflation to rise quite nicely in an area where there is a big jump in the minimum wage. If prices in an area have already risen to high levels compared to the national average, no one gets minimum wage anyhow. The McDonald's workers are getting at least $8/hr in those areas already.

[xer0xed]

You are assuming a cost of living increase and inflation. The low-income community has never been an economic burden. Better wages also = more spending and more tax revenue. The main issue is monetary redistribution, which you see as low-class intrusion, a terrible mentality to hold.

Essentially, you would like to seem them cemented far below you, is that not true?

Except... that money is there regardless. Law of conservation. ;P

[lordofchaos]

You are assuming a cost of living increase and inflation. The low-income community has never been an economic burden. Better wages also = more spending and more tax revenue. The main issue is monetary redistribution, which you see as low-class intrusion, a terrible mentality to hold.

Essentially, you would like to seem them cemented far below you, is that not true?

no, I would like to see myself not slip into poverty. In the fairytale world of economics class (where in theory comunism and socialism work well, not so much in the real world though huh) minimum wage is a good theory (just like the failure that is comunism/socialism). However, in the real world it is a driver for inflation and causes hurt to the middle class. You don't redistribute wealth with minimum wages any more than you redistribute wealth with welfare. Yes you redistribute money, but it will not do a thing to change wealth for the good.

[lordofchaos]

You can expect inflation to rise quite nicely in an area where there is a big jump in the minimum wage. If prices in an area have already risen to high levels compared to the national average, no one gets minimum wage anyhow. The McDonald's workers are getting at least $8/hr in those areas already.

exactly, wages tend to actually even out somewhat (again, minimum wage type jobs are not for raising a family on or even living by yourself on, they are a stepping stone to good employment) and all our meddling in the wages can do is harm...

[frankenstein]

The low-income community has never been an economic burden.

Is this a comedy routine or are you serious?????
You don't know much about economic policy yet, so you are forgiven.

Essentially, you would like to seem them cemented far below you, is that not true?

Someone earning close to minimum wage is not forced to be there by some mystical force. If someone does at least a halfway decent job, they are going to get paid at least $8-10/hr.

The minimum wage law like this will hurt small business owners big time. Inflation won't get out of control for big business, as WalMart employees and such are already making about the same as this new law mandates.

[frankenstein]

Also, any decent fringe benefits that low income earners had before this law will go away. So those people who were getting perhaps paid time off or paid lunch will see those go bye-bye. If they had help with healthcare through their employers, kiss it goodbye also.

I'm sorry to be a prick here, but if you only make $5.15-$7 an hour, don't make any tips wages, and you are over 20, you have made some serious mistakes in your life.

But let's clarify one thing- few of us criticizing this legislation WANTS to see anyone making $5.15 an hour. Being a gas station attendant will get someone about $9-10 an hour nowadays. And as lordofchaos said, minimum wage jobs are a stepping stone- not a long term job prospect.

Income mobility is high in the US.

[TricepsNGirls]

Is this a comedy routine or are you serious?????
You don't know much about economic policy yet, so you are forgiven.

Excuse me? The non-working community is the economic burden. If minimum-wage earners were self-sustaining, we wouldn't have the kind of welfare burdens that exist today.

Someone earning close to minimum wage is not forced to be there by some mystical force. If someone does at least a halfway decent job, they are going to get paid at least $8-10/hr.

Unskilled labor has no clout. That doesn't mean sub-living levels are merited.

The minimum wage law like this will hurt small business owners big time. Inflation won't get out of control for big business, as WalMart employees and such are already making about the same as this new law mandates.

Again, do you have experience with small business or are you just speaking out of your ass?

And with big business, look at costco - their average hourly wage is $16 at an entry level position and they're getting along fine.

[Lex Luthor]

Who benefits from an increase in minimum wage?

http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/lwlm99/turner.htm#t1

Table 1 presents the demographic and job characteristics of workers who would be affected by an increase in the federal minimum wage from $5.15 to $6.15 per hour. The minimum wage increase would directly affect 16 percent of all earners, or 11.2 million workers. President Clinton's proposal would particularly affect adult working women and teenagers. Teenagers represent 27.3 percent of affected workers, but comprise only 7.5 percent of all workers. Most of the direct beneficiaries of a new minimum wage would be women (62.3 percent). Only 17.4 percent of those benefiting from the proposed minimum wage are full-time workers while an additional 7.5 percent work 20 to 35 hours weekly. Most beneficiaries (75.1 percent) work less than 20 hours a week. The average minimum wage worker worked 9.2 hours per week in 1998.