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  1. #1
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    What you don't know about sodium depletion and potassium loading

    I see that most people on here seem to think that cutting out sodium and raising potassium to ridiculously high levels is the best way to shed excess water. Not only can this process be dangerous (even fatal if grossly overdone) it is not that effective. You see, in terms of ADH (anti-diuretic hormone) decreasing sodium intake will reduce ADH output. However, your water and ion levels are controlled by several hormones, not just one. Think about it, your body doesn't want to lose alot of water. Why? B/c an increased urine volume means decreased blood volume, decreased blood volume means decreased blood pressure; which is dangerous in the short term as it decreases the amount of blood to and from the heart.

    so if you lower your sodium and increase your potassium, the body will fight water loss... how does it do this????? By increasing aldosterone. Aldosterone is member of the steroid hormone family and it's production is stimulated by EITHER an increase in blood concentrations of potassium or a decrease in concentrations of sodium. Just wait, it gets better... aldosterone attaches to receptors on the distal tubule and on the collecting duct (part of the nephron... the functional unit of the kidney) and causes water to be reabsorbed into the interstitial fluid. So instead of excreting this water via urination, your body will retain it to increase your blood volume and return your blood pressure to normal.

    Just goes to show you that you can't fool your body, it is a lot smarter than you are... that's what millions of years of evolution will do for you.

    Your best strategy for losing water (if you don't want to take illicit drugs) is to use a moderate approach. Sodium loading isn't a bad idea starting about 10-15 days out, but when you deplete don't take it to ridiculously low levels... stay within 1-2g per day. By the same token don't load on a bunch of potassium, eat the amount of potassium you normally would.

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  2. #2
    Registered User ShaneG85's Avatar
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    I agree. A better approach to losing water is to bump up your water intake to 4-5 gallons a day 6 weeks out until the night before the show where you stop drinking water.

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  3. #3
    Registered User 8 pak man's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ShaneG85
    I agree. A better approach to losing water is to bump up your water intake to 4-5 gallons a day 6 weeks out until the night before the show where you stop drinking water.

    Shane
    if you had 4 to 5 gallons a day you would pee non stop i think 2 gallons is plenty no more is needed IMO
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  4. #4
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ShaneG85
    I agree. A better approach to losing water is to bump up your water intake to 4-5 gallons a day 6 weeks out until the night before the show where you stop drinking water.

    Shane
    don't agree with this either, not only is it unhealthy and dangerous, the rapid decrease in blood volume will cause you once again to release aldosterone and ADH, much better to adopt a more moderate approach of perhaps 2-3 gallons the days leading up to the show, then cut it by 30% a day before the show, then drink enough water to quench thirst the day of the show... but nothing more. Don't forget, muscle tissue is mostly water... if you cut your water too much you will lose alot of fullness

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  5. #5
    Registered User Moreps's Avatar
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    I keep water high till Friday late afternoon, then abruptly cut intake down to small sips to down my supps. This technique has yielded much better results than when I used to taper intake.
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  6. #6
    Eat, Drink and be Merry.. jayvee's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Moreps
    I keep water high till Friday late afternoon, then abruptly cut intake down to small sips to down my supps. This technique has yielded much better results than when I used to taper intake.
    this is the approach i favour also. kick up water in last week to 5-7 litres, then stop drinking late friday arvo (assuming the contest is on the saturday), and have small sips everytime you pee, to trick the body into thinking water is still coming in, otherwise it 'll tend to think nothings coming in and hold onto what it can. you piss like a racehorse, but you get nice and dry, and havnt had any dramas with cramping or dehydration, and ended up with excellent results.

    anyone have any experience with herbal diuretics e.g. dandelion with good results? any info would be more than helpful...
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  7. #7
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    bump
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  8. #8
    Joe Dirt Not So Big's Avatar
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    although i dont understand most of your post..
    i thought just about everyone decreases sodium and increases potassium for a contest?

    in this paragraph..
    "so if you lower your sodium and increase your potassium, the body will fight water loss... how does it do this????? By increasing aldosterone. Aldosterone is member of the steroid hormone family and it's production is stimulated by EITHER an increase in blood concentrations of potassium or a decrease in concentrations of sodium. Just wait, it gets better... aldosterone attaches to receptors on the distal tubule and on the collecting duct (part of the nephron... the functional unit of the kidney) and causes water to be reabsorbed into the interstitial fluid. So instead of excreting this water via urination, your body will retain it to increase your blood volume and return your blood pressure to normal."
    it seems like your saying that by lowering sodium and increasing potassium,your body actually fights water loss.. but when u say your body retains it to increase blood volume and return your blood pressure to normal.. would this still give u a look like ur holding alot of water, or still make u not hold alot of water?
    sorry if that makes no sense it probably doesnt i dont really kno what im trying to ask here lol. but im just trying to learn all about preparing for a contest because i plan on competiting in about 6 months and dont kno how to go about it. thanks if u can help me out with with explaining this sodium/potassium thing for me
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  9. #9
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    the lesson here is that yes you should reduce your sodium, but don't do it drastically, and you should ingest some more potassium... but not massive amounts like most bodybuilders do.
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  10. #10
    Joe Dirt Not So Big's Avatar
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    Originally posted by str8flexed
    the lesson here is that yes you should reduce your sodium, but don't do it drastically, and you should ingest some more potassium... but not massive amounts like most bodybuilders do.
    thanks thats much easier for me to understand.
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  11. #11
    Registered User sloowdown's Avatar
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    don't agree with this either, not only is it unhealthy and dangerous, the rapid decrease in blood volume will cause you once again to release aldosterone and ADH, much better to adopt a more moderate approach of perhaps 2-3 gallons the days leading up to the show, then cut it by 30% a day before the show, then drink enough water to quench thirst the day of the show... but nothing more. Don't forget, muscle tissue is mostly water... if you cut your water too much you will lose alot of fullness



    cutting your water immediately off the night before the show would not cause your body to release aldosterone or adh, as you have around an 18-24 hour window before that will happen. there are many, many competitors who use this approach and show up on stage extremely dry. and 5-7 liters a day in the last week will leave you a lot more flat than what you could be if you took in more but i will agree that 4-5 gallons is a bit of overkill, 3 would be suffice for most people.
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  12. #12
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sloowdown
    don't agree with this either, not only is it unhealthy and dangerous, the rapid decrease in blood volume will cause you once again to release aldosterone and ADH, much better to adopt a more moderate approach of perhaps 2-3 gallons the days leading up to the show, then cut it by 30% a day before the show, then drink enough water to quench thirst the day of the show... but nothing more. Don't forget, muscle tissue is mostly water... if you cut your water too much you will lose alot of fullness



    cutting your water immediately off the night before the show would not cause your body to release aldosterone or adh, as you have around an 18-24 hour window before that will happen. there are many, many competitors who use this approach and show up on stage extremely dry. and 5-7 liters a day in the last week will leave you a lot more flat than what you could be if you took in more but i will agree that 4-5 gallons is a bit of overkill, 3 would be suffice for most people.
    you need to go take a course on physiology. Your body senses changes in blood volume in a matter of hours. If it took a day to respond or even more than a few hours, people would frequently die from cardio failure due to low stroke volume
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  13. #13
    Registered User sloowdown's Avatar
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    you need to take a course on getting on the stage, because there are a lot of people who cut their water the night before and come in bone dry. you have 18-24 hours before water retention will occur from abruptly cutting off your water. ive read lots of physiology books. you are not the only person on this board with an education in this, i dont know if you realize that or not. and one day you are going to realize also that you do not know everything and could learn a lot from something called "real world results". i know that you have fooled these kids into thinking you are some kind of guru because you post big words and scientific studies, but you do not impress me with that at all.
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  14. #14
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    too bad i've done competitions and placed well.

    so yea, i'm not some pencil neck... sorry to disapoint you
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    yes i am so impressed now, you defintely are everything youre made out to be on here arent you? like i said one day you will realize that you have a lot to learn from real world results and not just science books and when you do that youll start looking like you have the physique of a BODYBUILDER and not that of a second rate mens health model. by the way did you follow that sodium and potassium method you just laid out? because you are looking just a little smooth there.
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  16. #16
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    haha you are funny. pretty good at talking.

    now if you are done hurling insults and would like to debate me in a scientific fashion (which I doubt you do) then be my guest
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  17. #17
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    no, no, no i fear your extensive textbook knowledge. you are right, i am wrong science guy. i made no insults, only observations. keep coming into contests flat and soft, either way i could care less, besides second place isnt that bad.hey you'll still get all the respect from these kids on here wont you?
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  18. #18
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    I'm one week out in those pics, so we'll see who laughs last
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    sloowdown, you obviously have something personal against Layne, but he is just trying to help others out..you dont have to agree, (as you have already stated) but you dont need to attack him for no reason.....
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    Thumbs up

    your all pencil necks, my traps are bigger then ronnie's legs.
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  21. #21
    Registered User sloowdown's Avatar
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    i only attacked him when his reponse was "you have obviously never picked up a physiology book". but he obviously has nothing left to learn so i will leave it be. i mean damn he looks soo impressive in that picture im sure he will just destroy his competition. ive never quite seen a board where anyone who spouts something off out of a science book is held in such high regard with no results to back it up.
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  22. #22
    NATURAL 4 LIFE! Hardcore Natural's Avatar
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    I agree, and people who "claim" to know it all are usually the ones who know the least amount. Science or not, nobody should act like they know it all...because nobody does. Just like there is always somebody bigger than the next guy, same goes for "thinking" you got all the right answers.

    Just because you know physiology or kinesiology or whatever you say you've read up on, does not make what you've read to be absolutely true or right. Again, it's just a book, and nothing is more true and believable than "real world results" and applied experience. So to all those who claim their "knowledge base" from books, science studies, etc.... you should realize that scientific studies/findings change like I change socks. One month scientific studies say "this causes cancer", and the next month it's that same thing is great for you and you should take high amounts of it.... so come on, stop with all the scientific bs and how about speaking on behalf of "real world" and "hands-on" experiences.
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  23. #23
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    what can i say guys... i guess I better return my college degree b/c it doesn't mean jack ****. All those hours I spent studying and what not and my time in grad school... yup it's all a waste
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  24. #24
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    Sloowdown...I apologize, you are right, I read the thread too quickly, you stated your opinion and Layne belittled you first...sorry bout that!
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  25. #25
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    well ****... looks like i'm doing a great job at making friends lately lol
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  26. #26
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    Originally posted by str8flexed
    what can i say guys... i guess I better return my college degree b/c it doesn't mean jack ****. All those hours I spent studying and what not and my time in grad school... yup it's all a waste
    Nobody said your college degree was a waste of time or that it doesn't mean jack ****, so cool your jets bro. The thing is, just because one has a degree, or reads up on lots of scientific literature, does not necessarily make that person more knowledgeable than the next person. Science especially, changes in a heartbeat, and just because one study shows this, does not necessarily make it right or the "only" solution.

    And as far as having a degree or being knowledgeable from reading books, etc goes...it's like going to a personal trainer for help with fitness. 90% of personal trainers out there have a certification or multiple certifications...does that make them an expert or that much more knowledgeable than a bodybuilder who actually has years of actual hands on experience? Not at all....not in the least.

    And when anyone "claims" to be an expert at things, that is usually a sign of someone who feels they have something to prove...and usually means they don't really know all that much, or simple they "think" they do...because they read lots of books, scientific literature or have a "certification" of some kind. Those things do not mean much compared to real life experience anyways.

    I think that is the point some people on here are trying to make...at least that is my point I am making! Peace out.
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  27. #27
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    Originally posted by str8flexed
    well ****... looks like i'm doing a great job at making friends lately lol
    Perhaps think about WHY you're doing such a great job at making friends lately. Outlandish insults along with the "know-it-all attitude" might have something to do with it. (rolls eyes)
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  28. #28
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    I"m sorry I started this thread, next time I'll keep info to myself
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  29. #29
    NGA Pro Bodybuilder chuckles_345's Avatar
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    Give Layne a break, he's carb depleted. Everyone is edgy and pissy when they r carb depleted.

    Chuckles
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  30. #30
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chuckles_345
    Give Layne a break, he's carb depleted. Everyone is edgy and pissy when they r carb depleted.

    Chuckles
    well it's not an excuse if I was being an ass... though I have been a bit testy of late
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