Evidence for elephants. Destroying the god hypothesis.

[JAGERBOY]

Finally, another prove god exists thread.

Im gonna go at this from another angle. Im going to prove in this thread that elephants exist. Since Christians and Muslims all "Know" that god exists, I would expect them to be able to provide evidence or proof of this. In life, when someone says they KNOW something, that means they have seen it or experienced it first hand, or there is alot of evidence that supports their knowledge of the subject. Now Christlims will claim that they have experienced god in their life so this is evidence, no. If you make the claim that god is an entity, a sentient being that made us in his image then that doesn't work. God isn't an emotion, so claiming you feel him won't work either. YOu are making the claim that god is a being, just like I am making the claim that an elephant is a being. So I can show you proof this being exists and not just assert that I "feel" elephants exist.

Im gonna go out on a limb here and make the "assertion" that I KNOW elephants exist. Heres my proof, can you do the same for a god?

Hereas video evidence of elephants:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16...ant-attack-car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeVc8xDOxc0
http://www.break.com/index/another_day_at_the_zoo.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcXsdirRzPk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS1MBVNGQGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A9A9ZzDkfA

Heres photo evidence of elephants:
www.mccullagh.org/db9/10d-17/elephant-side.jpg
http://www.travellersworldwide.com/I...g-elephant.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/grap.../27/wzim27.jpg

Heres eye witness accounts of elephants:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../27/wzim27.xml
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...elephants.html
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/forest-g...t/39760-3.html

Here is archeological evidence of elephants:
http://english.people.com.cn/english...714_45473.html
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/03/29/1518324.htm

Here is scientific testing of elephants:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0818010053.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1218111341.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1205235555.htm

[DTRG]

omg i love teh christ


video proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lam61O27X0k

photo of teh god:
http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/photos...d%20speaks.jpg

eye witness accounts:
GOD IS EVERYWHERE




Cliff notes: this issue has been beaten to death, conclusion once and for all: no one can ever prove ****. god is an imaginary friend

[JAGERBOY]

omg i love teh christ


video proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lam61O27X0k

Very uplifting song, doesn't prove god.

photo of teh god:
http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/photos...d%20speaks.jpg

So god is a cloud?

eye witness accounts:
GOD IS EVERYWHERE

Where? I dont see it? Unless he's a cloud.

Cliff notes: this issue has been beaten to death, conclusion once and for all: no one can ever prove ****. god is an imaginary friend

I agree. But since many people assert that they know god exists, I want to see god. I think it would be cool to see a god.

[DTRG]

http://historylink101.net/egypt_1/pi...aintings_1.htm

[JAGERBOY]

http://historylink101.net/egypt_1/pi...aintings_1.htm

Cool paintings, I have one too.

http://img2.travelblog.org/Photos/62...use-wall-0.jpg

[JAGERBOY]

Wow, no proof yet? I guess Ill keep checking in, Im very surprised theres no proof along the same lines that I posted for elephants, seeing as how Christians/Muslims claim to KNOW god exists. Interesting.

[Diesel66]

you really are a sad sad man.

[JAGERBOY]

you really are a sad sad man.

Care to explain why?

[Diesel66]

Care to explain why?

the fact that you spend your entire time on this site trying to prove God doesn't exists using physical evidence.

By definition God/god/ flying spaghetti monster is outside of this world.



Then you get the second part, you spend all this time focusing on something that not only you don't believe in, but it doesn't affect you at all.

[JAGERBOY]

the fact that you spend your entire time on this site trying to prove God doesn't exists using physical evidence.

By definition God/god/ flying spaghetti monster is outside of this world.



Then you get the second part, you spend all this time focusing on something that not only you don't believe in, but it doesn't affect you at all.

Sir, thats what this section is for. Are you aware that there are people that actually make their living doing this same thing? Have you ever heard Richard Dawkins? I, spend a relatively small amount of time disproving god. Why does it bother you so much that I want people to actually think for once instead of being brain washed god zombies?

Also, if God and the FSM are outside of this world, then how would one "know" they exist?

[timmy47]

the fact that you spend your entire time on this site trying to prove God doesn't exists using physical evidence.

By definition God/god/ flying spaghetti monster is outside of this world.

exactly. so no one can know that god exists. there is no way to know that seeing as he is above the natural world. there is no evidence of god at all.

[Diesel66]

Sir, thats what this section is for. Are you aware that there are people that actually make their living doing this same thing? Have you ever heard Richard Dawkins?

yes another man that spends his life trying to convince people that his views on religion are better then theirs.

How is he different from the evangalists that you despise ?

Many of us saw religion as harmless nonsense. Beliefs might lack all supporting evidence but, we thought, if people needed a crutch for consolation, where's the harm? September 11th changed all that. Revealed faith is not harmless nonsense, it can be lethally dangerous nonsense. Dangerous because it gives people unshakeable confidence in their own righteousness. Dangerous because it gives them false courage to kill themselves, which automatically removes normal barriers to killing others. Dangerous because it teaches enmity to others labelled only by a difference of inherited tradition. And dangerous because we have all bought into a weird respect, which uniquely protects religion from normal criticism. Let's now stop being so damned respectful!

He sounds just like the fanatics that he fears.

I, spend a relatively small amount of time disproving god. Why does it bother you so much that I want people to actually think for once instead of being brain washed god zombies?

Except you arent thinking yourself.



If you want to attack the bs science that is Intellegent Design, go ahead. They are trying to claim their beliefs are science so it is easy to destroy their arguments. You want to attack anyother factual claim like astrology, disbelief in evolution etc.... you have the ability to since both sides are trying to prove a fact.


But beliefs are different. One belief isnt better then another.

[JAGERBOY]

exactly. so no one can know that god exists. there is no way to know that seeing as he is above the natural world. there is no evidence of god at all.

Exactly what I just said. Also, this poses the problem that if one is stating as fact that they KNOW god is "outside" of this world, then that again is the assertion that you have knowledge of this. And again I ask, how do you "know" this? Did this being thats supposed to be "outside" of the world tell you? Did you go outside of the world and see him? What evidence do you even have to support the claim that he IS outside of the worlds? Or is this just an assumption? ANd if this is your assumption, then that assumption destroys any ablitiy of you to know one exists, in essence, you just proved to yourself that there is no god.

Wow, strong rant.

[JAGERBOY]

yes another man that spends his life trying to convince people that his views on religion are better then theirs.

How is he different from the evangalists that you despise ?
He sounds just like the fanatics that he fears.

Because its not just a few people that hold this irrational belief, its a HUGE portion of society. We need to move away from this.

Except you arent thinking yourself.

How so?

If you want to attack the bs science that is Intellegent Design, go ahead. They are trying to claim their beliefs are science so it is easy to destroy their arguments. But beliefs cannot be argued.

No, people that claim they have knowledge or KNOW that a god exist are essentially arguing from a scientific standpoint. Claiming to know something means you can see it or prove it. This is their oppurtunity to prove it since they apparently KNOW that a god exists.

[skinnycalves]

we dont see electromagnetic waves, they exist, we dont see gravity it exists, and physicist think our world may exist in 11 dimensions but we can only see 3, that doesnt mean the other 8 dont exist you get my point

[JAGERBOY]

we dont see electromagnetic waves, they exist,[

http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imag...s/visible.html

we dont see gravity it exists,

Sure we can, when I jump up, I come back down, thats gravity, we can test it over and over and over again and the same outcome always applies. We can not test god.

and physicist think our world may exist in 11 dimensions but we can only see 3, that doesnt mean the other 8 dont exist you get my point

Physicist "think"? Have they declared it a scientific theory or law yet? Cool theory, there may be evidence for it though, so I don't get why you would even bring it up. The mere fact that they think there is would suggest there is evidence to support it, or they woulnd't just arbitrarily make that claim. And until they actually view all of these dimensions or have enough evidence that supports to essentially 100% certainty, then they won't make the claim that they KNOW that there are 11 dimensions.

[timmy47]

we dont see electromagnetic waves, they exist, we dont see gravity it exists, and physicist think our world may exist in 11 dimensions but we can only see 3, that doesnt mean the other 8 dont exist you get my point

ive never heard anyone go around saying they know that there are 11 dimensions.

sure we dont see things like gravity but we see the affect it has. we can watch something being pulled toward the earth or another object(sun, moon etc...) it happens all the time. we can see gravity working. we know it exists because the effects of it are always there. its testable and you can make predictions on it(the speed at which an object falls and accerates)

[JAGERBOY]

I dont get it, I thought people knew that god existed, why aren't any Christians or Muslims posting here? I dont think that my post came off as mean, it was pretty matter of fact.

[anonymous]

Finally, another prove god exists thread.

Im gonna go at this from another angle. Im going to prove in this thread that elephants exist. Since Christians and Muslims all "Know" that god exists, I would expect them to be able to provide evidence or proof of this. In life, when someone says they KNOW something, that means they have seen it or experienced it first hand, or there is alot of evidence that supports their knowledge of the subject. Now Christlims will claim that they have experienced god in their life so this is evidence, no. If you make the claim that god is an entity, a sentient being that made us in his image then that doesn't work. God isn't an emotion, so claiming you feel him won't work either. YOu are making the claim that god is a being, just like I am making the claim that an elephant is a being. So I can show you proof this being exists and not just assert that I "feel" elephants exist.

Im gonna go out on a limb here and make the "assertion" that I KNOW elephants exist. Heres my proof, can you do the same for a god?

Hereas video evidence of elephants:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16...ant-attack-car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeVc8xDOxc0
http://www.break.com/index/another_day_at_the_zoo.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcXsdirRzPk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS1MBVNGQGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A9A9ZzDkfA

Heres photo evidence of elephants:
www.mccullagh.org/db9/10d-17/elephant-side.jpg
http://www.travellersworldwide.com/I...g-elephant.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/grap.../27/wzim27.jpg

Heres eye witness accounts of elephants:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../27/wzim27.xml
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...elephants.html
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/forest-g...t/39760-3.html

Here is archeological evidence of elephants:
http://english.people.com.cn/english...714_45473.html
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/03/29/1518324.htm

Here is scientific testing of elephants:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0818010053.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1218111341.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1205235555.htm

can u please prove that the following exsist in the same detail: Wind, Darkness, Light, Motion, Velocity, The Universe ??

[Revolver45]

Finally a prove God exists thread!

[saloman]

"Faith brings truth, not proof."

[saloman]

I dont get it, I thought people knew that god existed, why aren't any Christians or Muslims posting here? I dont think that my post came off as mean, it was pretty matter of fact.

You can 'know' something by use of 'reason' which is not limited to pictures or inter-subjective experiences. Do you agree/disagree?

[Pump that iron!]

"Faith brings truth, not proof."

Not when the faith is blind.

[saloman]

Not when the faith is blind.

Faith and Reason have a strong relationship, and both inform each other. There is a such thing as faith in spite of reason which I find difficult to work with, but there is also such a thing as faith in harmony with reason and that is what we should all strive for. Truth does not contradict, or it isn't truth. Faith and Reason must be in harmony or one is wrong. The hard part is not being obstinate about admitting which is in error.

[JAGERBOY]

can u please prove that the following exsist in the same detail: Wind, Darkness, Light, Motion, Velocity, The Universe ??

Sure. We can test these things, observe their effects and predict what will occur with all of those things.

The universe? Well, we know that exists, why would I need to prove it?

But to entertain your rebuttal, here goes. First, Ive experienced wind and felt it against my body. Ive also watched things being blown over by wind. Need more, here ya go.

Heres video evidence of wind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p61nTc-g3g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJgeOF7NM8c

Heres photo evidence of wind:
http://www.doitpoms.ac.uk/tlplib/opt..._label_sml.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...ll_013_416.jpg

Heres eye witness accounts of wind:
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/213416
http://www.thestate.com/154/story/58712.html

Heres scientific methods of measuring wind:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/lo...7/01388594.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemometer

[JAGERBOY]

You can 'know' something by use of 'reason' which is not limited to pictures or inter-subjective experiences. Do you agree/disagree?

We aren't talking about knowing a concept, or an emotion. We are talking about knowing that a being exists. There is only one way to know a being exists, to observe it or compile enough empirical and corroborative evidence that supports that said being existed. So what Im asking is for people to provide observational proof of the claim that a god exists. Or, show enough empirical and corroborative evidence that it does.

[saloman]

We aren't talking about knowing a concept, or an emotion. We are talking about knowing that a being exists. There is only one way to know a being exists, to observe it or compile enough empirical and corroborative evidence that supports that said being existed. So what Im asking is for people to provide observational proof of the claim that a god exists. Or, show enough empirical and corroborative evidence that it does.

I see you dodging my point here. I don't think you can prove it to be a fact that George Washington existed, but rather you can only support your belief in it with modes of credibility which you accept as true, or even a fact. Some would say that they are overwhelming, others might say they are all results of a conspiracy theory. I suppose your accepting history as irrefutable evidence might even be considered less objective than the arithmeticians who claim they can prove God exists by use of mathematics. I'll reiterate here also that we can know something by our use of reason, and it is not limited to positivist senses, or inter-subjective experiences. This thread seems to assert that unless we can produce an encyclopedia article or youtube video which proves God exists, then God must not exist. This is silly.

[JAGERBOY]

I see you dodging my point here. I don't think you can prove it to be a fact that George Washington existed, but rather you can only support your belief in it with modes of credibility which you accept as true, or even a fact.

Seeing as how he was our first president, there is mounds of evidence to support he existed. But, in reality, Im skeptical about alot of things. I assume that he existed, yet don't really care if he didn't. The difference between going all out to prove G. Washington existed and god existing, is that theres no threat of hell looming over my head for not believing in G. Washington. If I really wanted to though, Im sure I could compile a huge amount of evidence to show you that G. Washington really existed, but its not important, so I dont care.

This thread seems to assert that unless we can produce an encyclopedia article or youtube video which proves God exists, then God must not exist. This is silly.

Im not asserting that at all. Im saying that its silly to believe in something unless there is evidence. Just because I dont have evidence right now for a god, doesn't necessarily mean one doesn't exist. But like ALL things in life, until we observe something or have enough evidence to support it, it is assumed not to exist. I guess there could be flying purple cows somewhere in the universe, but since there is no evidence for them, they are assumed not to exist. With that said, if someone came on these forums saying " I know for a fact that flying purple cows exist!!!" . Im sure you would expect them to support this claim with evidence. If not, I have some magic beans Id like to sell you.

[saloman]

Im not asserting that at all. Im saying that its silly to believe in something unless there is evidence.

I think you're saying that its silly for us to believe in something that you don't find enough evidence for.

[JAGERBOY]

I think you're saying that its silly for us to believe in something that you don't find enough evidence for.

No, Its what any scientist or at the very least a rational person would want to see. Can you post the evidence that you have then if you have some? In science you can't just make a claim as fact without being able to show proof. The god theory would get laughed right out of a peer reviewed scientific journal.