Degenerative disc disease and limitations in weight training

Carl123 · 05-12-2007, 09:22 AM

Have any of you guys been diagnosed with degenerative disc disease or stenosis of the cervical or lumbar region of the spine? Has it impacted on your ability to perform certain lifting motions or the amount of weight you can lift? Have you received any therapeutic intervention for this problem?

FittyFour · 05-12-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl123

Have any of you guys been diagnosed with degenerative disc disease or stenosis of the cervical or lumbar region of the spine? Has it impacted on your ability to perform certain lifting motions or the amount of weight you can lift? Have you received any therapeutic intervention for this problem?

This is such a common diagnosis. The real question is whether or not you're symptomatic and the degree of those symptoms.

I have herniated discs in my cervical, thoracic, and lumbar spine. It's not unusual to find these among the geenral population. Some people suffer severely from these herniations - some are not bothered at all.

For the past few months I've been battling an episode involving my cervical spine - pain and tingling over my shoulder, down my bicep and forearm, and occasionally into my thumb and index finger. The x-rays show what they've always shown - continued narrowing of the disc spaces between my cervical vertebrae.

I've been working this out with a chiropractor/acunpuncturist. Surprisingly, I found some excellent relief with acupuncture although other modalities that have worked with me have been ultrasound, heat, and massage.

The pain and/or discomfort can manifest in different ways - a lot of the time it's from muscle spasm, which causes inflammation, which causes more pain, which increases spasm, inflammation, etc. The above modalities can break this chain. I try to stay away from medications since I don't like their side- and after-effects.

When sensory and motor functions are affected, ie the tingling I describe and worse, loss of power or coordination in the limb, then you need a physician to do some serious imaging incluindg MRI. Surgery is an absolute last option. The rate of success as to relief is mixed.

As far as lifting, it does limit me. I've learned which movements are the most irritating and avoid them. Dips, bench presses with a straight bar, upright rows, or any moves that hyperextend my neck are rough on me. I watch my form carefully and try to keep my head in a neutral position when working out.

On the bench, when using dumbbells for chest moves for instance, I roll up a towel to fill the void under my neck to prevent it from flattening out and putting more pressure on my cervical spine.

And if any move - I repeat - any move irritates my back or spine, I stop doing it.

Interestingly, I have had a reduction in lower back problems since doing squats to parallel and occasionally dead lifts. Not overly aggressive, no personal bests, keep the reps at 8-10 with good form. I've strengthened my entire supporting chain in my back and legs which seems to have helped.

Also try to keep your workouts balanced - meaning if you work one set of muscles, make sure you work the antogonistic set of muscles. For instance don't focus entirely on your chest and ignore your back. Muscle imbalance is a a great source of injury.

During the day, watch your posture. In your car, position your head rest so you can keep you head in a neutral position. Try to be conscious of your posture while working at your desk. Get yourself a cervical pillow to again keep your neck in a neutral positioin while you sleep. Avoid sleeping on your stomach which puts tremednous pressure on your lumbar spine.

If you're a believer in it, chiropractic is a good resource. And not to go just when you have a problem but work with a practitioner to mainatain your spine health. Not all chiros believe in those explosive moves with heavy neck and back cracking - get some referrals from people who've had good experiences.

Last but not least - hydrate. Your discs need fluid. Exercise, drink water, think good thoughts!

Good luck with your back - you're not alone!

tatdawg · 05-12-2007, 03:50 PM

a lot of people here have that problem. mine is L5 whish is lower back. it has bothered me for over 25 years. i can not do squats, deadlifts,rows and a lot of other things without putting my back at risk. just this week i have decided to put the weights away for a while and stick to a bodyweight only routine for a while. pushups, dips, pullups, chinups bodyweight squats and things like that. those are the only things i have found i can do consistantly and push myself with that does not bother my back or joints for that matter.

OHIOSTEVE · 05-12-2007, 10:03 PM

degenerative disc...scoliosis...and pinched sciatic nerve...spent a ton of money and over a year at the chiro with moderate relief.....ONE TIME USING INVERSION THERAPY and a VAST improvement in all areas.

Revmachine21 · 05-13-2007, 06:34 AM

This thread may provide some insights:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1665051

chickeneater · 05-13-2007, 04:46 PM

According to Dr. John E Sarno in his book "healing Back Pain", "degeneritive disc disease" is just a term given to discs that have shrunk/dehydrated a bit. It's a horrible sounding term for nothing other than the equivalent of getting wrinkles or graying hair as we age.

Al Swearengen · 05-13-2007, 05:35 PM

Interestingly, I have had a reduction in lower back problems since doing squats to parallel and occasionally dead lifts. Not overly aggressive, no personal bests, keep the reps at 8-10 with good form. I've strengthened my entire supporting chain in my back and legs which seems to have helped.

Also try to keep your workouts balanced - meaning if you work one set of muscles, make sure you work the antogonistic set of muscles. For instance don't focus entirely on your chest and ignore your back. Muscle imbalance is a a great source of injury.

During the day, watch your posture. In your car, position your head rest so you can keep you head in a neutral position. Try to be conscious of your posture while working at your desk. Get yourself a cervical pillow to again keep your neck in a neutral position while you sleep. Avoid sleeping on your stomach which puts tremendous pressure on your lumbar spine.

Great post indeed!

I can't add much other than since strengthening with squats, rows and deads I have little to no issues with my back like I used to.

OHIOSTEVE · 05-14-2007, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickeneater

According to Dr. John E Sarno in his book "healing Back Pain", "degeneritive disc disease" is just a term given to discs that have shrunk/dehydrated a bit. It's a horrible sounding term for nothing other than the equivalent of getting wrinkles or graying hair as we age.

Think about what you just posted.....The disc acts as a cushion and a stabilizer between the vertebrae ( sp) if the disc shrinks up and becomes more rigid ( the shrinking is caused from fluid loss) it stands to reason that it could cause some painful issues, and is a bit more dramatic than wrinkles ( unless you are extremely vain lol)

OHIOSTEVE · 05-14-2007, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen

Interestingly, I have had a reduction in lower back problems since doing squats to parallel and occasionally dead lifts. Not overly aggressive, no personal bests, keep the reps at 8-10 with good form. I've strengthened my entire supporting chain in my back and legs which seems to have helped.

Also try to keep your workouts balanced - meaning if you work one set of muscles, make sure you work the antogonistic set of muscles. For instance don't focus entirely on your chest and ignore your back. Muscle imbalance is a a great source of injury.

During the day, watch your posture. In your car, position your head rest so you can keep you head in a neutral position. Try to be conscious of your posture while working at your desk. Get yourself a cervical pillow to again keep your neck in a neutral position while you sleep. Avoid sleeping on your stomach which puts tremendous pressure on your lumbar spine.

Great post indeed!

I can't add much other than since strengthening with squats, rows and deads I have little to no issues with my back like I used to.

I must admit that the squats and good mornings sem to be helping mine along with the inversion stuff.

BigJohn308 · 05-14-2007, 07:33 AM

I have bulging disks in my lower back and have had to go through a round of epidural shots which helped a great deal. I deal with sciata on a day to day basis. What ahs helped me greatly is to get back to squatting and deadlifting, I have just lightened it up a bit from what I used to do. I also do a lot more walking. My PT told me that everyone over the age of 30 will start having "degenerative disks". As one poster said this is just the disks shrinking up and hardening. Happens to everyone as a process of age. Since my shots and my self rehab I have not been limited at all in my lifting as far as exercises, I just lighten the weight on those things that may aggarvate it.

As some have said, learn what hurts and stay away from that. Listening to your body is the key.

chickeneater · 05-16-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHIOSTEVE

Think about what you just posted.....The disc acts as a cushion and a stabilizer between the vertebrae ( sp) if the disc shrinks up and becomes more rigid ( the shrinking is caused from fluid loss) it stands to reason that it could cause some painful issues, and is a bit more dramatic than wrinkles ( unless you are extremely vain lol)

yeah, true. It's the onset of age. Wide recievers lose a step, baseball players lose swing speed etc....... I guess my point is we all lose flexibility/speed progressively as we age, but it should'nt cause pain (perhaps it would when you've been doing ATG squats w/ 315 for 5 yrs, and you have to lower it to 225 after you're not as hydrated back there anymore). It does cause pain psychosomatically w/ out a doubt when the medical community gives it a scary name such as "degenerative disc disease". Why is it a disease? An Mri of a knee will look different at 17 then it does on the same person at 30, 50 and 70. Does that mean he has "meniscus disease"? It just sends patients into a fear/anxiety cycle that worsens their pain. And guaruntees it will be chronic. Yeah, fluid loss is there, but every joint loses fluid to some extent as we age.
According to the book, the last disc btwn the L5 and the sacrum is more or less degenerated in most people by the age of 20. I don't think theres too many pain issues back there on 20 year olds.
I probably turned this into a "do herniated discs cause pain thread" rather than the original posters intention of finding out how DDD affects lifting. But I'm assuming he's referring to pain.
This is Dr. John E. Sarno BTW featured on 20/20.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...13127569317147

05-16-2007, 09:31 PM

I have it and I hate it. Very advanced case for my age per the doc. I use a very restricted workout program. Although I still do alot of things I was told not to. I just cant resist.

I took up yoga as my doc instructed and its helped.

Carl123 · 05-21-2007, 07:12 PM

I have stenosis in the cervical area (foraminal narrowing) and a disc bulge in my lumbar region. Although I am not experiencing much pain at all my legs feel awkward and weak when walking as if they are going to collapse. This symptom is present when I commence walking/running but dissipates when I exercise for a alonger period of time. According to a friend who is a Physical Therapist, although my symptoms are very uncomfortable, he does not see them as being serious. As I told him, "Of course its not serious, its my legs not yours!

Any one have similar symptoms? Carl

Gotta_get_Goin · 09-14-2009, 09:38 PM

I agree with most of what I have read in this post, so let me share my own personal story.
A few years ago, I hurt my lower back at work and developed sciatica from it. Since I don't get paid like a CEO, I couldn't go to the chiro as much as I should have and never got any diagnostic testing. Purely, it was a financial issue, but I have learned that money isn't more important than health. You can always make more money and even pay what you owe over time if you need to, but some facets of your health, you will never regain once lost.
Anyway, recently, I started feeling bad in the lower back again and one wrong move, and was incapacitated for the first week. The chiropractor didn't do as well as I would have hoped, so I went on meds. They helped somewhat for a short time and the dosages went up because it never seemed enough to control the pain. It never seemed to get much better for the fist month and took my wife's recommendation to see a specialist and she had me get an MRI. The results weren't good at all. My L5 looked like it belonged in a retiree( I am only 38 now ), and lost significant disk height, the one above that ruptured quite nicely and left a knot of scar tissue that they said would leave more if removed surgically, so I left it, and the two above that were pinched. On top of that, I have developed arthritic facet joints.
All I can say is that I will have to live with this and the only thing that I feel helped me is to regularly go to the gym and ONLY work to strengthen my core and lower back, and continue using my joint supplementation of glucosamine.
The therapy that I received, the water aerobics, and getting a personal trainer worked wonders for me. I feel that I should opt out of most of the gym exercises that I have done in the past, only because I will never be the same again and the last thing I want to do is more damage to my back. I use lots of core exercises on the balance ball and swim for my health. I think that as long as you do something to keep healthy, that is all that matters. Looking like they do in the magazines may be good for some, but having limitations should only limit one so far. There are options, so get yourself a personal trainer and explain what they are and they can teach you to stay fit no matter what the issue. Thank your for reading, and I hope that this may help someone with questions..........

XX400EX · 09-14-2009, 10:25 PM

Hello i have that too. I was at the point where just walking walmart my legs would go numb. And i was on pain meds for my back too. Since i started bodybuilding im drug free now and can walk miles now. I do use strict form in my lifts and been ok. I even squat and dead lift. Im going to see my doc about another mri to be sure im not doing dammage. The last mri was 2002 so im due.

victorn · 09-14-2009, 11:04 PM

I've got a badly herniated disk at the end of 2007 doing heavy bent over rows. Had to visit a chiropractor regularly since then - and he helped a lot! After vacation this summer all pain finally disappeared - well, almost. I know it's still there but it's under control.

I don't do deads or heavy squats or heavy bb rows; but bench is not affected at all. I'm also able to attend taekwondo/hapkido classes without any problems. So it's not that bad.