Let's talk - Natural Mr Olympia gives advice

[airnzah]

I think your diet looks good. You are eating a lot of carbs (approximately 40% of your calories) and that is good for putting on size. You are also eating enough protein, about 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight. The one thing I could suggest is that you eat more complex carbs like whole grain bread, brown rice, whole wheat pasta and oatmeal instead of the white bread and white rice. The complex carbs have more fiber and are digested slower than white bread or rice.

You also have to make sure you are really training hard when bulking up. I would cut back your training to 4 days a week and concentrate on the basic exercises. Use exercises like squats, deadlifts, barbell rows, clean and press, power cleans, t-bar rows, etc. But don't do too many sets in one workout. Use a weight you can only do for 6-8 reps and always try to get stronger and bigger. If you train like this and your strength keeps going up, you will need those extra calories and carbs to rebuild the muscle tissue. If you eat a lot of carbs and calories and don't train really hard and heavy, then a lot of those calories will be converted to stored bodyfat.

When I was bulking up, I didn't mind putting on a little fat AS LONG AS I was also putting on muscle mass and getting stronger. If you eat a lot of food like that and you don't train heavy, you will get fat so make sure you bust your ass in the gym!

John

Thanks for the reply! yeah I definitely bust my balls in the gym. majority of lifts are compounds, w/ some iso's too of course. my usual sets are only 2-3 sets (I kinda use HIT & Max-OT style, occasionally higher rep sets also), training under 1 hour.

what do you think of cardio? should I supplement my training w/ that? I seldom do cardio coz I'm lazy w/ that. how often would you suggest in a week? btw I do it HIIT style.

Thanks again for the advice! I'll try to keep increasing the calories slowly...

[Salden]

Hi John,

After having examined my last workjout programs I came up with these two.

What do you think is better for a naturel bb :

Program 1 :

Day 1 : Back + Chest + Front Delts + Abs
Day 2 : Rest
Day 3 : Side + Rear Delts + Traps + Abs
Day 4 : Legs
Day 5 : Arms + Abs
Day 6 : Rest
Day 7 : Rest


Program 2 :

Day 1 Morning : Back + Chest + Front Delts
Day 1 Evening : Side + Rear Delts + Traps + Abs
Day 2 : Rest
Day 3 : Rest
Day 4 : Legs
Day 5 : Arms + Abs
Day 6 : Rest
Day 7 : Rest

With the last I work the whole upperbody, exept arms, on the same day to obtain an extra resting day and give my shoulders the maximum recuparation.

Or do you think that 2 intensive workouts are to much for the nerve system and it would be better to do it like Program 1 ?

Best regards,
Gerard

[Natural_O]

Hi John,

After having examined my last workjout programs I came up with these two.

What do you think is better for a naturel bb :

Program 1 :

Day 1 : Back + Chest + Front Delts + Abs
Day 2 : Rest
Day 3 : Side + Rear Delts + Traps + Abs
Day 4 : Legs
Day 5 : Arms + Abs
Day 6 : Rest
Day 7 : Rest


Program 2 :

Day 1 Morning : Back + Chest + Front Delts
Day 1 Evening : Side + Rear Delts + Traps + Abs
Day 2 : Rest
Day 3 : Rest
Day 4 : Legs
Day 5 : Arms + Abs
Day 6 : Rest
Day 7 : Rest

With the last I work the whole upperbody, exept arms, on the same day to obtain an extra resting day and give my shoulders the maximum recuparation.

Or do you think that 2 intensive workouts are to much for the nerve system and it would be better to do it like Program 1 ?

Best regards,
Gerard

Gerard, I think if you are going to train chest and back in the same workout, you shouldn't do shoulders on that day too, even it's just your front delts. It would be much more effective to train shoulders by themselves or with triceps.

Something like this would probably work good:

Day 1 - chest, back
Day 2 - rest
Day 3 - legs
Day 4 - shoulders, abs
Day 5 - rest
Day 6 - Arms
Day 7 - rest

[Natural_O]

If anyone wants to check out my Contest Review of the show I recently promoted on March 22nd, it's right here on Bodybuilding.com at this link: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2008...iew_hansen.htm

I also have the review posted on my website, www.naturalolympia.com

John

[J_Bo]

Hey john,
I was wondering if you're familiar with Gamma Oryzanol? It's a supplement I found derived from rice bran oil extract. It supposedly elimintaes free radicals adn increases testosterone naturally... Are you familiar with/ do you have any opinions about it? Is it even legal to use for natural shows since it increases test levels? Any info would be awesome. I'm just looking for a new supp, but don'e want something potentially dangerous or banned.
Thanks John.

[Salden]

Gerard, I think if you are going to train chest and back in the same workout, you shouldn't do shoulders on that day too, even it's just your front delts. It would be much more effective to train shoulders by themselves or with triceps.

Something like this would probably work good:

Day 1 - chest, back
Day 2 - rest
Day 3 - legs
Day 4 - shoulders, abs
Day 5 - rest
Day 6 - Arms
Day 7 - rest

Thanks John,

I am having very sensitive front delts, which I have to warm up very carefully and stretch them each day.
Is it also then better to train the front delts seperate from chest ?
Wouldn't that be overkill ?

[Natural_O]

Thanks John,

I am having very sensitive front delts, which I have to warm up very carefully and stretch them each day.
Is it also then better to train the front delts seperate from chest ?
Wouldn't that be overkill ?

I think you would strain them more by training them after doing chest because you are already working them pretty hard with the chest exercises. If you do front delts right after that, you could risk straining them or overtraining them. If you did them several days later, you would not be overtraining them and they should be recuperated from your chest workout. Just don't train your delts the day before or the day after training your chest.

[Natural_O]

Hey john,
I was wondering if you're familiar with Gamma Oryzanol? It's a supplement I found derived from rice bran oil extract. It supposedly elimintaes free radicals adn increases testosterone naturally... Are you familiar with/ do you have any opinions about it? Is it even legal to use for natural shows since it increases test levels? Any info would be awesome. I'm just looking for a new supp, but don'e want something potentially dangerous or banned.
Thanks John.

I've heard of that but I've never tried it. I'm not aware that that supplement is banned in the natural organizations but you would have to check with each organization to see what they look for in their tests.

[N@tural1]

John

Hope you're well?

Have you always trained each bodypart once per week? Or have you experimented with more frequency?

Thx

[Natural_O]

John

Hope you're well?

Have you always trained each bodypart once per week? Or have you experimented with more frequency?

Thx

When I first started training at 14 years old, I was training each bodypart 3x a week. I was using Arnold's Mr. Olympia pre-contest training program, training each muscle group 3x a week and training twice a day. I did this for a full year and actually gained 20 pounds of muscle but this was because I was just starting training.

When I was 15 years old, I switched to training 4 days a week, training each bodypart twice a week. I got much bigger using this type of routine. I also used this routine when I bulked up from from 180 pounds to 230 pounds over two years. I was training the whole body over two days and training each bodypart twice a week.

After I bulked up to 230 pounds, I switched my training around so I was going 3 days on, 1 day off (4 days rest for each bodypart). This eventually evolved to 4 days on, 1 day off (5 days rest for each bodypart). My next progression was training 2 days on, 1 day off, 2 days on, 1 day off. This had me resting each bodypart for 6 days before training it again. My current routine, which I have been using for the last 6-7 years, has me training each bodypart once a week, training two days in a row, one day off, two days in a row and then two days off. This current routine has me training the same workouts each week which makes it easier for me to plan my work and social schedule around my workouts.

[Natural_O]

I'm sure most of you here know who Sergio Oliva is but some of the younger members may not. Sergio is a 3 time Mr. Olympia (1967-69) and he beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in 1969. Sergio had one of the most genetically gifted physiques in the history of bodybuilding. He is still talked about today as one of the legends of the sport and one of the best (some feel The Best) bodybuilders ever. Considering that Sergio was in his prime over 35 years ago, you can imagine how good he must have been to still be talked about with such reverence today.

Sergio at his best had a 27 inch waist with 21 inch arms and 29 inch thighs. His arms were so big, they looked as big as his head and one of his thighs was bigger than his waist! Sergio was very unusual because he had NO weak points. His calves, forearms, chest, back, traps, shoulders, thighs and arms were all incredible. I grew up in Chicago so I was fortunate to see Sergio at many of the local shows when I was a teenager. Sergio would walk into a contest with the sleeves on his shirt split so his massive arms could fit and with a huge gold medallion hanging on his chest. He was a larger than life character with an outrageous physique that matched his personality.

GMV Productions just released a DVD that features most of Sergio's competitions and appearances on one disc. It is an incredible collection of rare contest footage including the 1969 Olympia where he beat Arnold and some other battles with Arnold at the 1970 and 1972 Olympia. If you are dissatisfied with many of the current physiques with their protruding waistlines and lack of shape and symmetry, you will be amazed at the tiny waist and incredible physique of Sergio in his prime.

If you want to see one of the best bodybuilders of all time and want to learn a little history of the great sport of bodybuilding, check out this DVD. Here is the link to order it:
http://www.gmv.com.au/default.asp?pa...id=2066&site=1

[|ceman]

I'm sure most of you here know who Sergio Oliva is but some of the younger members may not. Sergio is a 3 time Mr. Olympia (1967-69) and he beat Arnold Schwarzenegger in 1969. Sergio had one of the most genetically gifted physiques in the history of bodybuilding. He is still talked about today as one of the legends of the sport and one of the best (some feel The Best) bodybuilders ever. Considering that Sergio was in his prime over 35 years ago, you can imagine how good he must have been to still be talked about with such reverence today.

Sergio at his best had a 27 inch waist with 21 inch arms and 29 inch thighs. His arms were so big, they looked as big as his head and one of his thighs was bigger than his waist! Sergio was very unusual because he had NO weak points. His calves, forearms, chest, back, traps, shoulders, thighs and arms were all incredible. I grew up in Chicago so I was fortunate to see Sergio at many of the local shows when I was a teenager. Sergio would walk into a contest with the sleeves on his shirt split so his massive arms could fit and with a huge gold medallion hanging on his chest. He was a larger than life character with an outrageous physique that matched his personality.

GMV Productions just released a DVD that features most of Sergio's competitions and appearances on one disc. It is an incredible collection of rare contest footage including the 1969 Olympia where he beat Arnold and some other battles with Arnold at the 1970 and 1972 Olympia. If you are dissatisfied with many of the current physiques with their protruding waistlines and lack of shape and symmetry, you will be amazed at the tiny waist and incredible physique of Sergio in his prime.

If you want to see one of the best bodybuilders of all time and want to learn a little history of the great sport of bodybuilding, check out this DVD. Here is the link to order it:
http://www.gmv.com.au/default.asp?pa...id=2066&site=1

Sergio was unreal in his genetics. The only bodybuilder that intimidated Arnold.

Arnold's own words:

"Sergio was so good he could beat you in the dressing room if you were not careful. His lats would begin to flare.... and just when you thought they were the most unbelievable lats you ever saw BOOM -out they would come more and more and more."

Sergio said to Arnold:

"take a look at this baby" and made his lats inflate like balloons, Arnold admits that he gave up all chance of winning right there and then.

[Natural_O]

Great pics Iceman! Thanks!!

[|ceman]

Great pics Iceman! Thanks!!

Glad to help!

Can you imagine what he would look like today with all that is known now about training/diet/supplementation?

If he existed in his prime today (and didn't abuse drugs and get a GH gut), he'd blow away everyone!

[Natural_O]

Wait until you see the DVD and see how he looked in his prime. It's so freaky how small his waist is and how big his arms are. His arms almost look bigger than his head!

[jl101882]

He has a son that is into bodybuilding. I guess we'll see how much of Sergio's genes were passed down...

[N@tural1]

He did have a great physique, I wonder why he never beat Arnie more than once.

[Natural_O]

He did have a great physique, I wonder why he never beat Arnie more than once.

Sergio beat Arnold in 1969 and Arnold beat him twice in 1970, at the AAU Mr. World and the Mr. Olympia. Arnold was more cut than Sergio at both of those events. In 1972, a lot of people feel Sergio was incredible and should have won that contest. It has been said that Weider was backing Arnold because he was investing a lot of publicity in Arnold and wanted to make him the undefeated champ. After Sergio lost in '72, he was disgusted with the IFBB and Weider and didn't compete in the Olympia again until 1984.

[Salden]

Arnold versus Sergio 1972

If anyone can post the images to show immediately ?

[Quelly]

Arnold versus Sergio 1972

If anyone can post the images to show immediately ?

my humble opinion...arnold looked a little better from the front, but in the back shot he looks softer than sergio...

[JulienP]

Hello Mr Natural O,

I'm your age or thereabouts , I'm 6ft4 and I'm overweight at 303lbs - I'm training now for 5 months and I train with Serge Nubret who is 69 and lives in Paris - France.

I liked your honesty about the fact that you took the 'juice' when you where cutting up for contests in your early 20's.

I hope to get a decent shape back again and keep it up this time. I competed when I was 23 in 1985 and came 6th out of 14 in my class tall class.

I took the juice like you to cut up and I got worried because the BIG guys where on it all year round...after the Ben Johnson Olympics things got complicated and I quit everything 16 years ago. My main problem was believing that I could progress without them. I know it's possible, and Serge Nubret insists that I train 'clean' but concentrate on super high protein and train 6x a week high volume (makes sense) considering that I'm easely + 25%bodyfat.

Hope to do a masters competition once I see what's under the lard!

[Natural_O]

Hello Mr Natural O,

I'm your age or thereabouts , I'm 6ft4 and I'm overweight at 303lbs - I'm training now for 5 months and I train with Serge Nubret who is 69 and lives in Paris - France.

I liked your honesty about the fact that you took the 'juice' when you where cutting up for contests in your early 20's.

I hope to get a decent shape back again and keep it up this time. I competed when I was 23 in 1985 and came 6th out of 14 in my class tall class.

I took the juice like you to cut up and I got worried because the BIG guys where on it all year round...after the Ben Johnson Olympics things got complicated and I quit everything 16 years ago. My main problem was believing that I could progress without them. I know it's possible, and Serge Nubret insists that I train 'clean' but concentrate on super high protein and train 6x a week high volume (makes sense) considering that I'm easely + 25%bodyfat.

Hope to do a masters competition once I see what's under the lard!

Hey Julian,

Good to hear from you. Yes, I agree with Serge to eat a high protein diet in order to get leaner and more cut. I personally only train 4x a week, as heavy as I can. I don't train 6x a week because I need more days off for recuperation. If you are training lighter, you could probably train more often but I prefer training heavier with more rest. If you want to compete again, get as lean as possible and you will do well. The size is not as important as the definition and conditioning. Give yourself enough time to diet slowly and lose the bodyfat. I tend to lose about an inch off my waist every 4 weeks so it takes a few months to get really ripped. Best of luck to you!

[N@tural1]

As much as I respect Serge, I think his training style is a bit OTT

IMO most lifters will need more recovery days than 1 a week

[Natural_O]

As much as I respect Serge, I think his training style is a bit OTT

IMO most lifters will need more recovery days than 1 a week

From what I remember about reading about Serge Nubret, he always trained light for the pump with a lot of volume (sets) and six days a week of training. I prefer to train heavier with a little less volume and more days off.

[chenko]

From what I remember about reading about Serge Nubret, he always trained light for the pump with a lot of volume (sets) and six days a week of training. I prefer to train heavier with a little less volume and more days off.

Yeah Serge Nubret's training style is the antithesis of Mike Mentzers. Both great physiques from approximately same era but adhered to very different philosophies.

Most peoples training will fall somewhere in the middle.

I tend to think training style has alot in common with someones personality. For example Mike Mentzer was a pretty intense, introverted guy from what i know and trained in a full on way. Dont know much about Serge's personality but he seems pretty laid back. Have you seen this kind of correlation in your experience John?

[Quelly]

As much as I respect Serge, I think his training style is a bit OTT

IMO most lifters will need more recovery days than 1 a week

well if your just in there pumping it up your not gonna be doing much to fatigue your cns...


in my humble opinion....most training methods work, as long as they are progressive....but if you have a major plateau...the best style of training is whatever you aren't doing...your body is made to adapt...so if you've been heavy lifting for a while and stop growing no matter what...up the volume...and vice versa

[JulienP]

Hello and a massive THANKS for your reply!

Yes Serge Nubret is into 6 days consecutive!!!! with sunday off! I've seen so much of the gym in the last 5 months that it's worth the last 5 years!

His theory is this : High Volume training with weights that allow you 12 reps for 6 sets sometimes 8 sets on Squats and Bench press. An example would be Benching 220lbs for 7 sets of 12 and the 1st set with one 45lbs plate on either end of the Olympic bar. WHY?

He insists that to get muscle gains you need to have a total pump and that the longer the blood stays in the trained muscle the more the nutrients can act in rebuilding etc.

Now I've trained a fair bit with the 4 sets or 5 sets pyramidical where you warm up then increase and continue until you end up with about a last set of 6 reps maybe 4 or 5 quite heavy. The results where quite good, infact just training made me improve, as log as I do minimum 3 - 5 workouts a week. I find 6 workout really tiresome!

As I'm training with Serge once sometimes twice a week in his Gym (REMGYM) and at another okay Gym that just opened close to where I live (Important avoids excuses of not going!) I'm giving his program a shot for 6-8 months, then, i'll decide. As i'm overweight today I'm on a strict diet to shed lard fast literally the Protein zero carb and low fats. Around 3lbs of red meat daily and 3 protein shakes in water with zero fat and zero carbs ... I lost 5kg in 5 days and probably will lose 15 kg in a month, after which i will start having some carbs in the morning only (oats with non fat milk).

At Serge's Gym back in 1981-86 the majority were black athletes and they all responded fast only a few Michael Jackson lookalikes had more trouble. The info stayed hush hush, the blacks stayed with the blacks and the others the arabs and the asiatics or caucasians just got on with their workouts. His gym "Nubret's International Club" produced a lot of championship physiques, numerous M. World wabba, and Universe contestants male and female. About 40 athletes a year would compete for the top european honours and his gym would take 50% of all the top 3 places : Eduardo Kawak, Gabin Lambert, Jupiter, Lafortune, Bertil Fox, John Juan Brown M. Universe, Gomba, Jaqueline Nubret, Jocelyne Pigeonnau, Chantal Nelson, Jeff Primm, etc etc

It was motivational...but the HAZE remains, you are somehow obliged to become a human guinnea pig of some sorts...the "secrets" you never get, only on this forum do you get some information... thanks to internet.

I'm carrying some lard and so I can afford to do the volume it will in the worst case scenario burn some fat away and tone the muscles.

It would be great to get some down to earth Basic info - at 46! never too late?

[ahmedmagdy]

i know that i calculate my protien intake buy multiply my weight in bounds buy 1.5 or 2
then do i eat meat and chicken as the same weight would the result be or also calculate how much protien they contain

[chenko]

i know that i calculate my protien intake buy multiply my weight in bounds buy 1.5 or 2
then do i eat meat and chicken as the same weight would the result be or also calculate how much protien they contain

How much protein they contain not the weight of the food

[ahmedmagdy]

How much protein they contain not the weight of the food

thanks for ur help