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  1. #1
    Interested in PL dorian_fan's Avatar
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    Thoughts on Mike Mentzer

    I was just wondering what everybody's thoughts were on Mike Mentzer. Personally, I think Mike was one of the best bodybuilders to ever walk the stage. The man presented one of the best physiques on the stage at his time. Not only was he a great bodybuilder but an innovator for the sport. While he may not be as nearly as influential as Arnold or the Weiders, Mike nonetheless inspired numerous bodybuilders with his HIT including Dorian. Its a shame he retired when he did and tragic that he passed away before his time.
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    It's true that nothing in recent literature has been able to hold a candle to HIT. I think Mike himself had issues, he led one of the most boring lives. He really needed to get out more. It's a shame what happened, but I think he was mentally retarded and needed more support than what he had.
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    Mike Mentzer was one of the greats, but he really rejected everyone else's high volume training approach...he believed only his approach to training was correct, which was very low volume and extremely heavy weight. to him, doing 20+ sets a workout was just overtraining and putting too much stress on the body to grow causing the body to break down...with all due respect to Mike Mentzer, HE was the one who ended up passing away before the rest of the bodybuilders.
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    Originally Posted by Pump14
    Mike Mentzer was one of the greats, but he really rejected everyone else's high volume training approach...he though only his approach to training, which was very low volume extremely heavy weight was correct, and he said doing 20+ sets a workout was just overtraining and putting too much stress on the body to grow...with all due respect to Mike Mentzer, HE was the one who ended up passing away before the rest of the bodybuilders.

    Just like Bruce Lee, the intensity of his nature caused his demise. But that could have been Mike's plan from the start, lol. Why do 90 years of living, when you can get the same life out of 50 high intensity years instead. It prevents over-living.
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    The one and only bigcalves's Avatar
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    He ate alot of red meat.
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    Him dying at a young age had nothing to do with the way he trained. It had something to do with a heart condition that was genetic,his brother died not too long after he did from the same thing.
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    I like the Tom Platz, Casey Viator, Arthur Jones style of HIT better, they used more volume. Platz obviously used the most volume though out of anyone who incorporated those principles. Tom had the body in 81 to show what HIT and high volume can do for a person. Mike Mentzers version of HIT using one set is just plain laughable.
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    Originally Posted by Big_Mike
    Him dying at a young age had nothing to do with the way he trained.
    Exactly

    Mike Mentzer was one of the few pros who knew his ****, he was not always right but was a knowledgeable guy, take a look at most of pro bodybuilders, they have no idea about nutrition, training, supplements, drugs,... just read some of their articles in bodybuilding mags such as flex, u can find a dozen of elementary mistakes, they are successful cuz of good genetic + good nutrition, pharmacology, training plans by their gurus ( Chad Nicholls, Charles Glass, Hany Rambod, Charles Poliquin, Author L Rea,... ).
    Last edited by Bill Gates; 04-16-2005 at 02:51 PM.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Majors's Avatar
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    i really like mentzer style of training when i am bulking up and have that extra energy to do it the right way because there is a fine line between being lazy and doing hit the right way.
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    Originally Posted by Big_Mike
    Him dying at a young age had nothing to do with the way he trained. It had something to do with a heart condition that was genetic,his brother died not too long after he did from the same thing.
    Actually it had a lot more to do with his excessive use of amphetamines. He was adicted to speed for over a decade before he finally quit. It actually literally drove him insane; he was institutionalized at some point. He died from a brain anurism IIRC. Keep in mind Mentzer was older than Arnold and Zane. He died at the age of 70 I believe.
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  11. #11
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    nah nah nah now I think he was more around 74ish 75ish, reason he died was because of all the orange TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNGG he drank. oooh noo don't do it mike, no don't! *mike morphs into a chimpanzee and then lifts* yeeeeeeeeeeeooooooooowww
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by Ryo
    I like the Tom Platz, Casey Viator, Arthur Jones style of HIT better, they used more volume. Platz obviously used the most volume though out of anyone who incorporated those principles. Tom had the body in 81 to show what HIT and high volume can do for a person. Mike Mentzers version of HIT using one set is just plain laughable.
    People cannot fathom what Tom's intensity was like, it was like Mike Mentzer, except more intense, and for as many sets as Arnold. Its stretching methods were also extremely tough, from what I hear, he used to put **** loads of weights on the seated calf raise and just stretch out his calves like that.
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  13. #13
    Registered User Rush's Avatar
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    I agree that HIT is definatley a good system but to say that nothing in today's literature holds a candle to it is a flat out lie. This is what i don't like about alot of hit supporters, you guys think that all other styles of training are wrong. You guys wanna see a complete, well thought out, well researched method of training check out HST. However i do use some hit principles in my training. I also use volume principles occasionally, i think getting the best of all styles is key, just my two cents.
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    I went to a Mentzer seminar in 1982 it was good. He had a good mind.
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    Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    Actually it had a lot more to do with his excessive use of amphetamines. He was adicted to speed for over a decade before he finally quit. It actually literally drove him insane; he was institutionalized at some point. He died from a brain anurism IIRC. Keep in mind Mentzer was older than Arnold and Zane. He died at the age of 70 I believe.

    Yeah thats not true, he was 49 when he died.

    this is from a site on his life"In recent years, Mike learned he had serious heart problems, "

    And http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mentdeath.htm
    Thats a bunch of crap as far as i'm concerned.
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    Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    Actually it had a lot more to do with his excessive use of amphetamines. He was adicted to speed for over a decade before he finally quit. It actually literally drove him insane; he was institutionalized at some point. He died from a brain anurism IIRC. Keep in mind Mentzer was older than Arnold and Zane. He died at the age of 70 I believe.
    You must be joking.
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    Bulk Boy nin10dude's Avatar
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    I like Mike because he had the good sense to question the bodybuilding orthodoxy. I have his book Heavy Duty 2, and I actually agree with a lot of the points he makes. Abbreviated training routines are definitely necissary for me to get the most out of training. As mike wrote, "You can work out hard, or you can work out long, but you can't do both." His way of putting his methods into practice are what I have trouble with: 3-5 sets/workout, workout once every 4-7 days, and only 1 working set per exercise per bodypart. Undertraining to such a major degree does next to nothing for muscle size.
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    Originally Posted by Man, I'm Big
    It's true that nothing in recent literature has been able to hold a candle to HIT. I think Mike himself had issues, he led one of the most boring lives. He really needed to get out more. It's a shame what happened, but I think he was mentally retarded and needed more support than what he had.
    I think he had a full life, not boring at all.
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    O U T W O R K will-work4ANDRO's Avatar
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    i dislike mike mentzer and his training principles. no offense to anybody but i believe his whole training philosophy is outright bogus. and like others said before me, he definitely had a lot of issues in his life.
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    Interested in PL dorian_fan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    Actually it had a lot more to do with his excessive use of amphetamines. He was adicted to speed for over a decade before he finally quit. It actually literally drove him insane; he was institutionalized at some point. He died from a brain anurism IIRC. Keep in mind Mentzer was older than Arnold and Zane. He died at the age of 70 I believe.
    He died at age 49 due to a genetic heart condition. His brother died of the same thing.

    I liked Mike's ideas of spending less time in the gym and the up-ing the intensity level. I agree with you guys that Tom Platz definately tweaked it and made it work for him. As did Dorian and Mark Dugdale.
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    Originally Posted by will-work4ANDRO
    i dislike mike mentzer and his training principles. no offense to anybody but i believe his whole training philosophy is outright bogus. and like others said before me, he definitely had a lot of issues in his life.
    Do you think he lied about how he trained? or did he compete at the Olympia level using his principles? Who doesn't have issues in their lives?
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    ^ Of course Mentzer lyed about his training. Hed did not use one set, and people who use to train alongside him during the seventies say so too. He was out for one thing......money.
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    Originally Posted by dorian_fan
    I was just wondering what everybody's thoughts were on Mike Mentzer. Personally, I think Mike was one of the best bodybuilders to ever walk the stage. The man presented one of the best physiques on the stage at his time. Not only was he a great bodybuilder but an innovator for the sport. While he may not be as nearly as influential as Arnold or the Weiders, Mike nonetheless inspired numerous bodybuilders with his HIT including Dorian. Its a shame he retired when he did and tragic that he passed away before his time.
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    Originally Posted by Ryo
    ^ Of course Mentzer lyed about his training. Hed did not use one set, and people who use to train alongside him during the seventies say so too. He was out for one thing......money.
    Mike didn't lie about his training. He never said absolutely that one set was all that was needed until he wrote the heavy duty books in the 90's. When he was a pro bodybuilder in the late 70's, early 80's on certain exercises like the partial rep squats, he would do two sets. The guy who was very adament about only one set being needed was dorian yates. Mentzer just said that abbreviated training routines were more useful to the average person trying to build muscle than the six-day-per-week, 2-hour-per-day protocol utilized by many of the bodybuilders of the time.
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    Originally Posted by nin10dude
    Mike didn't lie about his training. He never said absolutely that one set was all that was needed until he wrote the heavy duty books in the 90's. When he was a pro bodybuilder in the late 70's, early 80's on certain exercises like the partial rep squats, he would do two sets. The guy who was very adament about only one set being needed was dorian yates. Mentzer just said that abbreviated training routines were more useful to the average person trying to build muscle than the six-day-per-week, 2-hour-per-day protocol utilized by many of the bodybuilders of the time.

    "I think the mentzer approach too extreme and limited and although in theory sounds great doesn't work in the real world."

    that's a quote from dorian yates himself on mike mentzers philosophy.
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    Originally Posted by will-work4ANDRO
    "I think the mentzer approach too extreme and limited and although in theory sounds great doesn't work in the real world."

    that's a quote from dorian yates himself on mike mentzers philosophy.

    well said, I like your anti-mentzer approach also. I don't see myself or anybody else being a bodybuilder if they go into the gym, do 4 sets and call it a workout. the human body was created to withstand extreme conditions, look at the guys that lived in the jungle 2,000 years ago...they jumped tree branches to escape predators, had to run, jump, catch and kill their food to survive, carry loads of wood on their back all day long....and nowadays we have big men complaining that 20 sets is too much for their muscle to handle. Gimme a break, it makes me sick.

    i watched cutler's new improved and beyond DVD where he did 20+ sets each bodypart, and I think his approach to lifting is best. High volume, moderately heavy weight with good form and short rest.
    Last edited by Pump14; 04-17-2005 at 02:56 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Pump14
    well said, and I like your anti-mentzer approach as well. I don't see myself or anybody else being a bodybuilder if they go into the gym, do 4 sets and call it a workout. the human body was created to withstand extreme conditions, look at the guys that lived in the jungle 2,000 years ago...they jumped tree branches to escape predators and had to run, jump, catch and kill their food to survive....and nowadays we have big men complaining that 20 sets is too much for them to handle. Gimme a break, it makes me sick.
    At the 1982 seminar Mike recommended several warm up sets then an all out set to failure, followed by forced reps, followed by stripping weight off the bar and more reps to failure followed by forced reps, followed by a couple of negatives. For example:

    Main set on the bench 315 for 6 reps (failure on rep 6), two forced reps, strip off 1 plate and put on a 25 on each side (275) do that to failure followed by a couple of forced reps, strip off the 25 (now 225 on the bar) and do that to failure followed by a couple of forced reps followed by 2 or 3 negatives. If you think that is wimpy give it a try.
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    Originally Posted by johnnyironboard
    At the 1982 seminar Mike recommended several warm up sets then an all out set to failure, followed by forced reps, followed by stripping weight off the bar and more reps to failure followed by forced reps, followed by a couple of negatives. For example:

    Main set on the bench 315 for 6 reps (failure on rep 6), two forced reps, strip off 1 plate and put on a 25 on each side (275) do that to failure followed by a couple of forced reps, strip off the 25 (now 225 on the bar) and do that to failure followed by a couple of forced reps followed by 2 or 3 negatives. If you think that is wimpy give it a try.
    excluding the warmup sets, its basically just 1 set, 3-4 exercises. so we're talking 3-4 sets. I'd enter the gym door at 9 a.m. and leave at 9:04 a.m.
    Instead of doing that, I would rather be in the gym a good 45 minutes, hit the muscle from ALL angles with different poundages and supersets, feel the muscle working with mind muscle connection, feeling the muscle work the weight and not vice versa. When did I say forced reps or stripping isn't good? I just don't agree with doing 3-4 sets a day.
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    Originally Posted by Pump14
    excluding the warmup sets, its basically just 1 set, 3-4 exercises. so we're talking 3-4 sets. I'd enter the gym door at 9 a.m. and leave at 9:04 a.m.
    Instead of doing that, I would rather be in the gym a good 45 minutes, hit the muscle from ALL angles with different poundages and supersets, feel the muscle working with mind muscle connection, feeling the muscle work the weight and not vice versa. When did I say forced reps or stripping isn't good? I just don't agree with doing 3-4 sets a day.
    I've done it all and it all comes down to what you believe in. Mike's methods-when done the way I described- do work. It takes about 20 minutes with all the warmups and you can't do anymore after that(if you do it right you actually want to throw up.)
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    Originally Posted by Pump14
    well said, I like your anti-mentzer approach also. I don't see myself or anybody else being a bodybuilder if they go into the gym, do 4 sets and call it a workout. the human body was created to withstand extreme conditions, look at the guys that lived in the jungle 2,000 years ago...they jumped tree branches to escape predators, had to run, jump, catch and kill their food to survive, carry loads of wood on their back all day long....and nowadays we have <a href="big%20men" onmouseover="window.status='big men'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">big men</a> complaining that 20 sets is too much for their muscle to handle. Gimme a break, it makes me sick.

    i watched cutler's new improved and beyond DVD where he did 20+ sets each bodypart, and I think his approach to lifting is best. High volume, moderately heavy weight with good form and short rest.
    Good perspective. I also think that Mentzer was out to steal money from schmoes who are not dedicated enough to diet and training for results which is why he advocated 1 set. Like I said, the guy was not out to help people, he wanted money.
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