Knee wraps with squats

[Cgb6810]

I've worked my way up to 2 heavy sets of 405 on squats with reps in the 7-10 range. I usually do 6 sets, 2 of those warm up. Im going down to just parallel and never lower. My knees are starting to develope a little pain. Not during the excercise but the days after. Maybe its my age (41) or maybe my technique. I've never had knee pain before. I keep my feet placed slightly wider then shoulders and keep my back straight while trying to look up when squatting.

Anybody using knee wraps?

Also, I have been placing my feet close together during leg presses and hack squats to help build the outer sweep in my quad for the last month or so. No pain while doing these either?

Leg workout is:
squats-6 sets
leg presses, 3-4 sets
hack squats, 3-4 sets
leg curls, 3-4 sets
calf work

Thanks for your advice
Chris

[Boilerkid]

i do use knee braces. they definitely help. knee wraps are a lot of work as you're constantly putting them on and then taking them off.

[POED]

I'm 45 and wrap up on squats over 315 but not on any leg presses or hack squats.

[hyp3r3xt3nsion]

i used to use them, but now that i'm not moving as much, am trying w/o them. the arguement that they prevent knee from strengthening and can lead to injuries later on does seem to have merit

[Cgb6810]

Can anyone help me on proper use of knee wraps? I thought I could put them on and leave them until I completed all of my squat sets. Should I remove them after each set and then put them back on before the next? How tight should they be?

Thanks!
Chris

[nubreed]

Originally posted by Cgb6810
Can anyone help me on proper use of knee wraps? I thought I could put them on and leave them until I completed all of my squat sets. Should I remove them after each set and then put them back on before the next? How tight should they be?

Thanks!
Chris

I always re-wrap in between sets.
Start at the bottom, below the knee and wrap clockwise for your right leg and counter-clockwise for the left.

[ATrainer]

Agree with wraps to support the knee on heavy sets only. Hypers comment on possibly losing out on strengthening the knee is a valid concern. Rewrap between sets, because they are generally too tight to stay on. Also, if you wrap tighter on heavy, but looser on lighter, you might solve the one problem of trading knee strength for safety.
Us old guys gotta watch it.

[hyp3r3xt3nsion]

i must never have wrapped tightly because i kept mine on throughout the entire workout *shrug*

[ATrainer]

plus had to switch with brother ;-)

[x-ray vision]

I don't think you can get a definite yes or no answer here without knowing exactly what's causing your knee pain.

If you have chondromalacia patella (like me), wearing knee wraps while squatting increases the friction between the patella and the underlying cartilage making things worse.

I went to a a well known sports orthopedist in my area ( I recommend you see one for a diagnosis) and he recommended trying Sumo squats. After giving my knees a break, I tried them and they hurt my knees also (but who knows, they may work for you). I stick to leg presses now as my main heavy exercise and my knees have been ok for over a year now. Good luck.

[Max-Machine]

Originally posted by x-ray vision
I don't think you can get a definite yes or no answer here without knowing exactly what's causing your knee pain.

If you have chondromalacia patella (like me), wearing knee wraps while squatting increases the friction between the patella and the underlying cartilage making things worse.

I went to a a well known sports orthopedist in my area ( I recommend you see one for a diagnosis) and he recommended trying Sumo squats. After giving my knees a break, I tried them and they hurt my knees also (but who knows, they may work for you). I stick to leg presses now as my main heavy exercise and my knees have been ok for over a year now. Good luck.

Seems to be very controversial. Here's a link that addresses the chondromalacia patella issue:

http://www.ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search/...ext.asp?ID=833

Paul Cribb is not in favour of knee wrapping....

I just started wrapping mine up to prevent any injury and lo & behold I now learn that it exasperates it!

I'm gonna try the one -legged squats to see if improving my medialis helps---but I don't have ch.p.---just don't want to get it!

wrapping definitely seems to help---but is it a "masking" solution?

[hyp3r3xt3nsion]

Originally posted by Max-Machine
Seems to be very controversial. Here's a link that addresses the chondromalacia patella issue:

http://www.ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search/...ext.asp?ID=833

Paul Cribb is not in favour of knee wrapping....

I just started wrapping mine up to prevent any injury and lo & behold I now learn that it exasperates it!

I'm gonna try the one -legged squats to see if improving my medialis helps---but I don't have ch.p.---just don't want to get it!

wrapping definitely seems to help---but is it a "masking" solution?

yea; wrapping doesn't allow the ?tendons/ligaments? to develop and strengthen in the knee

[bukem]

One thing in form that can contibute to knee problems while squating or leg press, is pointing toes forward. It's important to keep your toes open, to put your knee in a more natural position.
You probably do this any way, but it's just a thought.

[uvbnbit]

If I may add. I am an all natural bodybuilder, and have been doing heavy sets of squats nude (no wraps) for well over 12 years, and the poundages I am doing is well over 500, and have not had any knee problems, and never used any wraps. Old skool I guess...

- Erik

[uvbnbit]

If I may add. I am an all natural bodybuilder, and have been doing heavy sets of squats nude (no wraps) for well over 12 years, and the poundages I am doing is well over 500, and have not had any knee problems, and never used any wraps. Old skool I guess...

- Erik

[Max-Machine]

Originally posted by hyp3r3xt3nsion
yea; wrapping doesn't allow the ?tendons/ligaments? to develop and strengthen in the knee

Thanks! That seems to be the general consensus. I'm 50 next month, and while they don't really hurt, just want to keep it that way. They do however, "snap, crackle & pop"!! I do have a touch of arthiritis, but damned if that is gonna stop me!

I do have to be careful when going down. They swell up some if I pound out the cardio, so I'm holding back for a while on that. I think deep squatting will help? (seems to...) of course, my form is, I think pretty good. Ass to the grass--feels better.

I don't know... they feel a LOT better wrapped up. Of course, I'm not all that good at it anyway (235 for 5 strong, wrapped reps). ---currenty following Max OT--to the "T"...Have done 300 for 5 on the useless Smithy, not as deep as now tho. I think I might as least wrap up the last set, and then substiutue Paul Cribb's one-legged squats for my current lunges...

The idea at this point is preventitive medicine, & strengthening the entire knee joint....AND go into old age with huge quads!

Thanx for all the input!

[Max-Machine]

Originally posted by uvbnbit
If I may add. I am an all natural bodybuilder, and have been doing heavy sets of squats nude (no wraps) for well over 12 years, and the poundages I am doing is well over 500, and have not had any knee problems, and never used any wraps. Old skool I guess...

- Erik

Well, now I've got a goal to shoot for!

Saw a guy at my gym years ago doing lunges with 285lbs. using a pretty big box for a really big stretch. He spent more time wrapping and unwrapping his knees than he did lunging!

[Max-Machine]

Originally posted by Cgb6810
Can anyone help me on proper use of knee wraps? I thought I could put them on and leave them until I completed all of my squat sets. Should I remove them after each set and then put them back on before the next? How tight should they be?

Thanks!
Chris

If this link works, you should be able to scroll down and open a video clip on how to properly wrap ---- they forgot to tell me to get the longer wraps tho!

http://www.joeskopec.com/assist.html

....never leave them on. Cuts off circulation. Pain in the ass, but...

BTW....just thought of this now. Could tight wrapping lead to varicose veins? ----due to the pressure and lack of circulation?

[FortifiedIron]

I wouldnt take the word for what is being said on the Max-ot Website.. those guys are kinda like the HIT group... well are kinda the HIT group.

I wrap my knees super tight.. tight as possible for every set. I will generally rewrap them in the middle of my session.

The data to support wraps hampering the use of connective tissue and thus increasing the risk of injury futhuring your training only wrap your knees on sets over 80%.. for me thats every set

Kc

[Wheelies]

Originally posted by FortifiedIron
I wouldnt take the word for what is being said on the Max-ot Website.. those guys are kinda like the HIT group... well are kinda the HIT group.

I wrap my knees super tight.. tight as possible for every set. I will generally rewrap them in the middle of my session.

The data to support wraps hampering the use of connective tissue and thus increasing the risk of injury futhuring your training only wrap your knees on sets over 80%.. for me thats every set

Kc

Paul Cribb is a world renownd sports trainer, he probably knows a little bit about injury prevention/rehab and stuff like that...

[bhman6]

FI....Max-OT guys??? WTF is that supposed to mean? Granted, I don't agree 100% with everything I read on AST's website, but that article from Paul Cribb was in no way connected to the Max-OT training program.

Can you back up your claim that wraps don't hinder connective tissue strengthening?

I suppose you recommend wearing a bench shirt for every heavy set of benches, because this is the same thing.

Knee wraps make it seem like there is a spring under your butt while you are doing squats/leg presses, etc. This takes tension not only off the tendons and ligaments but also off the quads.

Many powerlifters do not use wraps except the final few weeks before a meet to get accumstomed to them. This makes it seem easier once they do wrap their knees.

[FortifiedIron]

Originally posted by bhman6
FI....Max-OT guys??? WTF is that supposed to mean? Granted, I don't agree 100% with everything I read on AST's website, but that article from Paul Cribb was in no way connected to the Max-OT training program.

Can you back up your claim that wraps don't hinder connective tissue strengthening?

I suppose you recommend wearing a bench shirt for every heavy set of benches, because this is the same thing.

Knee wraps make it seem like there is a spring under your butt while you are doing squats/leg presses, etc. This takes tension not only off the tendons and ligaments but also off the quads.

Many powerlifters do not use wraps except the final few weeks before a meet to get accumstomed to them. This makes it seem easier once they do wrap their knees.

You missed 99.9% of my post.. go back and re-read it.

I acidently missed out a part of my post it should have read this:

"The data to support wraps hampering the use of connective tissue and thus increasing the risk of injury is inconclusive."

There is a major difference in wraping your knees tight and wrapping them 'snug'.

Kc

[bhman6]

Makes much more sense now. Thanks for the reply. But you still didn't say anything about your attack on Max-OT. Like I said, Paul's article didn't have much to do with anything in the Max-OT course.

What are your thoughts on what Paul had to say?

I have read that applying something like Biofreeze or IcyHot then wrapping snuggly might help keep the joint loose and warm. I might actually try that, but tight wrapping is, from what I have read, a big no no on a consistent basis.

[FortifiedIron]

Originally posted by bhman6
Makes much more sense now. Thanks for the reply. But you still didn't say anything about your attack on Max-OT. Like I said, Paul's article didn't have much to do with anything in the Max-OT course.

What are your thoughts on what Paul had to say?

I have read that applying something like Biofreeze or IcyHot then wrapping snuggly might help keep the joint loose and warm. I might actually try that, but tight wrapping is, from what I have read, a big no no on a consistent basis.

I apply Tiger Balm to my joints before i wrap them. Thats the major point of the snug wrapping.. to keep the joints warm.

When was the last time you heard of a pl blowing out his knees or having a major injury to his knees?

Im not a believer in the Max-ot program, at best it applys moderate results, but if thats what you wanting then be my guest. I've covered this topic a ton as of late.

Kc

[bhman6]

When was the last time you heard of a pl blowing out his knees or having a major injury to his knees?

- a guy I knew in highschool who was a powerlfter torn his meniscus, doctor told him not to use wraps so much, one of my training partners is a powerlifter, said the same thing


Im not a believer in the Max-ot program, at best it applys moderate results, but if thats what you wanting then be my guest. I've covered this topic a ton as of late."

- I know everyone is entitles to their own opinions, just don;t post saying it as if it applies to everyone. I have made better gains on Max-OT style training than any other in my life.


Once again, you still have yet to give a sound rebuttle to Paul's article, but I guess it's easier to bash Max-OT than give an intelligent response.

[Heisman]

Originally posted by bhman6
When was the last time you heard of a pl blowing out his knees or having a major injury to his knees?

- a guy I knew in highschool who was a powerlfter torn his meniscus, doctor told him not to use wraps so much, one of my training partners is a powerlifter, said the same thing


Im not a believer in the Max-ot program, at best it applys moderate results, but if thats what you wanting then be my guest. I've covered this topic a ton as of late."

- I know everyone is entitles to their own opinions, just don;t post saying it as if it applies to everyone. I have made better gains on Max-OT style training than any other in my life.


Once again, you still have yet to give a sound rebuttle to Paul's article, but I guess it's easier to bash Max-OT than give an intelligent response.

Many powerlifters who squat over 900 pounds (some over 1,000 and 1,100 pounds) never have knee problems, and they use wraps a lot.

By the way, you have no idea about who you are messing with. FortifiedIron is quite possibly the most knowledgable guy on this site, although a whole bunch of people have him beat on experience.

[bhman6]

oh my gosh...should I be scared now because I messed with the god of internet forums???

I thought that was Layne, lol

[bhman6]

By the way, I am not trying to start a battle, to each their own.

While I do not necessarily agree with FI's comments, I respect his knowedge and opinion, which is why I asked for his opinion on Paul's thought about knee injuries. That's it.

If FI repsonds with sound advice regarding that article, by all means I will listen.

Heisman...how's that butt taste

[Wheelies]

Originally posted by Heisman
Many powerlifters who squat over 900 pounds (some over 1,000 and 1,100 pounds) never have knee problems, and they use wraps a lot.

By the way, you have no idea about who you are messing with. FortifiedIron is quite possibly the most knowledgable guy on this site, although a whole bunch of people have him beat on experience.

Yes FI is very knowledgable, but he seems to have a chip on his shoulder about anything that is even remotely related to Max OT or AST in general. He totally discounts Paul Cribbs article just because he works for AST and promtoes Max OT training.

[Heisman]

Originally posted by bhman6
By the way, I am not trying to start a battle, to each their own.

While I do not necessarily agree with FI's comments, I respect his knowedge and opinion, which is why I asked for his opinion on Paul's thought about knee injuries. That's it.

If FI repsonds with sound advice regarding that article, by all means I will listen.

Heisman...how's that butt taste

What butt?

You have made it sound like you don't believe that FortifiedIron knows what he is talking about, so I'm just telling you that if you want some pure scientific answers he will give you them.

By the way, you conveniently didn't mention the part of my post that said how many of the strongest powerlifters never have knee injurys.