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  1. #1
    Take your Supps right!!! qweewq12's Avatar
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    Protein Shakes and Cholesterol

    This information pertains to people with cholesterol around 200+:

    I have naturally high cholesterol due to heredity and all the crap I use to eat before I started hard-charging in the gym. But, back last fall I started really eating clean and cutting out the bad foods. In January, I had my annual physical and came out with Cholesterol of 210 with HDL and LDL at not so good levels. Recently (May), I had a new check with Cholesterol of 205 and my HDL was 24... still bad!

    Standards are Under 200 mg/dl for Cholesterol, HDL to be 40 mg/dl or Higher and LDL to be less than 100 mg/dl. The lower your LDL cholesterol, the lower your risk of heart attack and stroke. RDA of Cholesterol is 300mg a day.

    Personally, although it has gone down 5 points in 5 months, I was hoping it would have been around 195 since I was eating clean. However, I discovered something that was a shock to me!!! Protein shakes do have cholesterol in it and not just a little bit, some have plenty...ranging from 0mg a serving to 100mg+ a serving for weight gainers type.

    Now since I want to lower my cholesterol and also drink 2-3 protein shakes a day, a protein shake with high cholesterol isn't helping me at all!

    Recent Protein shakes I have used:
    • Prolab N-Large II - Protein: 52 g, Cholesterol: 100 mg. (holy crap!)
    • Muscle Milk- Protein: 32 g, Cholesterol: 5 mg (good, but MM is expensive)
    • At Large Nutrition Nitrean- - Protein: 23 g, Cholesterol: 23 mg (could be better)
    • I was looking at getting ?EAS Premium Protein? from Costco next, but protein: 27g, Cholesterol: 80mg. (don't want this anymore)
    Usually I would double up on the servings each time to get me close to 50g of protein each shake? if I would do that with the EAS, that would put me at 160mg a shake( 480mg a day + whatever I get from regular food) I am thinking that would definitely make my total cholesterol go up!

    Yesterday I ordered Dymazite Elite Whey: 23g protein and 5mg cholesterol per serving.. Read some good reviews on it and going to use that as my next protein shake as my current tub of Nitrean is almost gone?

    I read that some cholesterol is vital to building muscle, but from now on, I am definitely going to keep an eye out for how much cholesterol is in my shakes and keep it so whatever cholesterol intake I do have is mainly coming from my actual food.

    As for HDL & LDL, Remember high HDL is good, high LDL is bad!

    What measures can be used to increase HDL/lower LDL levels? Ironically, these are also good for cutting fat and helping you towards you bb goals...
    • More Aerobic exercise.
    • Lose weight.
    • Stop smoking.
    • Cut out the trans fatty acids
    • Cut out Alcohol.
    • Increase the monounsaturated fats in your diet.
    • Add soluble fiber to your diet.
    Any other protein drinks out there you like and have low Cholesterol levels (-10mg per serving) in them?
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  2. #2
    Registered User MuscleHead36's Avatar
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    Might want to try Nectar Protein it has only 5g of Cholesterol in it. Check it out here.
    Last edited by MuscleHead36; 05-09-2007 at 07:00 PM. Reason: made a booboo!
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  3. #3
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    Protein isolates have less then 5mgs/serving. As a benchmark, Optimum Nutrition has 30mg/serving.

    Giant Nutrition brand protien isolates (I-PRO) sell for $15.00/2 lbs.

    peace,
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    Red face

    It's my understanding that dietary cholesterol has little impact on serum cholesterol (I'm sure someone will jump in a correct me if I'm wrong :-). Personally, I drink at least 1 20oz protein shake daily (ON Whey, which has 30 milligrams per serving) and despite having naturally high cholesterol also, mine has gone down 25 points in past year.
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  5. #5
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    roehrigs01: I have naturally high cholesterol due to heredity and all the crap I use to eat before I started hard-charging in the gym. But, back last fall I started really eating clean and cutting out the bad foods. In January, I had my annual physical and came out with Cholesterol of 210 with HDL and LDL at not so good levels. Recently (May), I had a new check with Cholesterol of 205 and my HDL was 24... still bad!

    CARL: I am not a medical doctor, but in my opinion an HDL level of 24 should raise a red flag! If I had such a low HDL I would immediately take steps to attempt to raise this vital lipid result.

    roehrigs: Standards are Under 200 mg/dl for Cholesterol, HDL to be 40 mg/dl or Higher and LDL to be less than 100 mg/dl. The lower your LDL cholesterol, the lower your risk of heart attack and stroke. RDA of Cholesterol is 300mg a day.

    CARL: And there appears to be a correlation with higher amounts of HDL with longevity and decrease chances of having heart disease.

    roehrigs: Personally, although it has gone down 5 points in 5 months, I was hoping it would have been around 195 since I was eating clean. However, I discovered something that was a shock to me!!! Protein shakes do have cholesterol in it and not just a little bit, some have plenty...ranging from 0mg a serving to 100mg+ a serving for weight gainers type.

    CARL: In my opinion as a layman, I would think that you may wish to speak with a medical doctor who specializes with blood lipid disorders to determine how best to elevate your very low HDL level. This appears to be a more immediate situation that needs to be addressed than focusing on what protein shake to drink!

    roerhigs:What measures can be used to increase HDL/lower LDL levels? Ironically, these are also good for cutting fat and helping you towards you bb goals...
    • More Aerobic exercise.
    • Lose weight.
    • Stop smoking.
    • Cut out the trans fatty acids
    • Cut out Alcohol.
    • Increase the monounsaturated fats in your diet.
    • Add soluble fiber to your diet.
    Any other protein drinks out there you like and have low Cholesterol levels (-10mg per serving) in them? [/QUOTE]

    CARL: Yes, regular aerobic exercise, losing weight, cutting trans fats (but don't forget saturated fat as well that contributes to elevated cholesterol) and ceasing smoking. In addition, soluble fiber and omega acids from fish products ( a recent study revealed that fish was more healthy for the heart and artieries than monounsaturated fats such as olive oil, avocados and nuts) are also beneficial. In regard to alcohol there are studies indicating their benefit in raising HDL levels IF NOT IN EXCESS.

    Once again my friend If I were in your shoes I would prioritize my health issues and speak with a medical specialist about what to do to safely elevate an extremely low HDL level.
    Last edited by Carl123; 05-09-2007 at 05:47 AM.
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  6. #6
    Registered User bellaone1965's Avatar
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    Quick question.. my son is 15 yrs. old has optimum LDL of 100..i have been told that the muscle milk he drinks post workouts .. is not good for him too high in fat ...n will eventuallyl affect his cholesterol...what would be a better post shake for him to drink ..if this would be true? Thanks ..Bella
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  7. #7
    Registered User baarat's Avatar
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    I agree with Carl, see a doctor. HDL of 24 is dangerously low. FYI anytime a cholesterol has been refined into a powder it has the potential to be oxidized, and will surely become more oxidized over time. And it's the oxidized cholesterol that is to be avoided, just saying.
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    Originally Posted by bellaone1965 View Post
    Quick question.. my son is 15 yrs. old has optimum LDL of 100..i have been told that the muscle milk he drinks post workouts .. is not good for him too high in fat ...n will eventuallyl affect his cholesterol...what would be a better post shake for him to drink ..if this would be true? Thanks ..Bella
    Bella,

    The high fat content of Muscle Milk and a number of other protein supplements is not good for your son or anyone else!

    In fact, as mentioned previously, a 15 year old would not appear to need ANY supplements at this point in their lives because of the fact that they should be deriving their protein and other macro and micro nutrients from natural sources and a nutrient dense well balanced diet. In other words a 15 year old should not be taking ANY supplements UNLESS specific deficiencies have been identified by a medical doctor. The rationale behind this is that a 15 year old is still maturating, physically, mentally and psychologically and introducing any supplements would be inadvisable UNLESS there is an actual need. Peer pressure, parental anxiety as to whether their child will be big and strong enough and related reasons are not sufficient to put a youngster on extra protein or creatine or vitamins or whatever because one never knows if these supplements can have any adverse effects on a youngster due to its introducing large quantities of a specific nutrient, such as large amounts of protein, with unknown effects! Just my perspective.
    Last edited by Carl123; 05-09-2007 at 07:01 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Thumbs up

    Greetings-

    I'm 42 and my cholesterol was near 250 late last year. My doctor gave me 3 months to get it down or he wanted to put me on medication. I had been eating pretty clean, working out, etc. so I added "Cycle Support" to my daily protein drink. 3 months later, my cholesterol had dropped to an acceptable level. Here is my review of the product:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=2005871

    I did this while taking Muscle Milk too. For me, the elevated cholesterol is genetic, but the Cycle Support helps and it's something I take daily.
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    I believe, as someone said, that Dietary cholesterol has a much LESSER impact on serum cholesterol than, say, Saturated Fats do, which are by far the largest dietary contributor to bad serum cholesterol levels.

    BTW, if youre still interested in dietary cholesterol, I use Dymatize Elite Chocolate Whey which to me is every bit as good as most chocoloate shakes Ive had, and its got a cholesterol rating of only 5 mg/serving. And, I get 10 lbs of it for just $41 from supplementmarket.com. But, again, lower those saturated fats if you want the Best way to lower cholesterol in your body.
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    Don't forget the link to LDL from carbs. Sugar lowers good HDL cholesterol and raises bad LDL cholesterol and blood pressure levels. Sugar also increases triglyceride storage and cellular oxidative damage, and is a series of symptoms reflective of the body's response to imbalanced oxygen and sugar metabolism. Most BB have this under control but just thought I would mention it. This is what makes processed and fast food so dangerous. Most have refined carbs and sugar and quite a few have large amounts of transfats thrown in, a double wammy.
    Last edited by baarat; 05-09-2007 at 08:18 AM.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by roehrigs01 View Post
    Any other protein drinks out there you like and have low Cholesterol levels (-10mg per serving) in them?
    I've been using American Whey by American Sports Nutrition for quite some time. Not only is it the best tasting protein powder IMO, but the amino acid profile is good.

    Serving size: 1 oz. (1 scoop)
    Each serving provides:
    Calories: 104
    Total Fat: 1g
    Cholesterol: 0mg
    Sodium: Trace
    Total Carbohydrates: 6g
    Protein: 20g

    Note that it has no cholesterol.

    Hope that helps.
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    I've been using ON whey mixed with water or skim milk, I also have had to deal with my cholesterol levels the past few years.

    My levels were 240 total a few years back and after being told by my doctor the same story as you received, I decided to do some research on cholesterol lowering supplements.

    I found that many cholesterol lowering drugs use statins, and a natural herb that contains this stain is Red Yeast Rice, an ingredient listed in Cycle Support recommended by edvanp.

    The point here is I lowered my cholesterol by 50 points in 3 months by taking a combination of Red Yeast Rice and Omega 3 capsules around 1200 to 1500 mg each daily, and the brand I've used is Nature's Bounty:

    http://www.naturesbounty.com/

    This was my alternative to taking prescription drugs, and my doctor said as long as this is working keep it going.

    Good Luck!
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  14. #14
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    Very interesting! Actually I have a dr appt thursday to have a full chol/hdl/ldl test done.. and to talk to the doc about everything...
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    FYI for most ppl dietary cholesterol has little to no effect on plasma cholesterol.

    Some good reads:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...3&postcount=12
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=937460
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    Thumbs up Thanks Carl

    Originally Posted by Carl123 View Post
    Bella,

    The high fat content of Muscle Milk and a number of other protein supplements is not good for your son or anyone else!

    In fact, as mentioned previously, a 15 year old would not appear to need ANY supplements at this point in their lives because of the fact that they should be deriving their protein and other macro and micro nutrients from natural sources and a nutrient dense well balanced diet. In other words a 15 year old should not be taking ANY supplements UNLESS specific deficiencies have been identified by a medical doctor. The rationale behind this is that a 15 year old is still maturating, physically, mentally and psychologically and introducing any supplements would be inadvisable UNLESS there is an actual need. Peer pressure, parental anxiety as to whether their child will be big and strong enough and related reasons are not sufficient to put a youngster on extra protein or creatine or vitamins or whatever because one never knows if these supplements can have any adverse effects on a youngster due to its introducing large quantities of a specific nutrient, such as large amounts of protein, with unknown effects! Just my perspective.

    Carl,
    Thank you so much for your thoughts to my question.. about the protein shakes ..My son plays football n is training of course bulking .. for the up coming season his coach wants him to gain 15- 20 lbs.which i feel is too much in such a short time .. Don't you think ?.. He is only a freshmen 15 yrs. 6"1' an 202lbs.. n is playing on varsity school team. what would you suggest .. for him for his pre n post workouts .. ? =) Bella
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    Take your Supps right!!! qweewq12's Avatar
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    ok...saw the doc today...she wanted to get a 2nd reading on the free cholestrol test I had... so I have a full chol panel tomorrow...I discussed a "solution" with her and she said it was good to go...

    solution:
    Cardio 3x 30mins a week
    Omega-3 1000mg daily
    Red Yeast Rice 1000mg daily
    Come back for another chol test in 3-4 months (aug 31st), get results to see what happen and go from there...

    Also she said use a low chol protein drink (-10mg per shake)...chol is chol and at this time I don't need any of it... weather is it dietary or from fat...especially since the liver makes chol too...

    She is also giving me a kidney check to make sure I am not intaking too much protein...

    all covered under my medical insurance...sweet! Wanted to ask for a testosterone test..but thought that would be pushing my luck...lol
    Last edited by roehrigs01; 05-11-2007 at 12:18 AM.
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    Originally Posted by bellaone1965 View Post
    Carl,
    Thank you so much for your thoughts to my question.. about the protein shakes ..My son plays football n is training of course bulking .. for the up coming season his coach wants him to gain 15- 20 lbs.which i feel is too much in such a short time .. Don't you think ?.. He is only a freshmen 15 yrs. 6"1' an 202lbs.. n is playing on varsity school team. what would you suggest .. for him for his pre n post workouts .. ? =) Bella
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    Originally Posted by bellaone1965 View Post
    Carl,
    Thank you so much for your thoughts to my question.. about the protein shakes ..My son plays football n is training of course bulking .. for the up coming season his coach wants him to gain 15- 20 lbs.which i feel is too much in such a short time .. Don't you think ?.. He is only a freshmen 15 yrs. 6"1' an 202lbs.. n is playing on varsity school team. what would you suggest .. for him for his pre n post workouts .. ? =) Bella

    Hi Bella,

    My personal opinion is that a fifteen year old should not be "hurried" along physically and psychologically, especially in terms of putting on alot of bulk, during this stage of his life to satisfy the needs and demands of a coach! In fact, an adolescent's entire physiology is still maturating including bones, muscles, glands and hormonal system, the cardiovascular system and the brain and to introduce ANY exogenous nutrient in excess may create nutritional and health imbalances. In addition, a fifteen year old should not be engaging in very heavy weight training to put on alot of bulk (who knows the effect this may have on a youngster's health?) but gradually develop a foundation of muscular strength and cardiovascular fitness through the implementation of sound training principles.

    In terms of a natural protein sources that can build healthy muscle, a recent study shows that drinking two glasses of milk (I would suggest skim milk) post workout was extremely effective in terms of building muscle (of course if your son has a problem with lactose this may not be a good idea). Also introducing or adding foods such as beens, lean cuts of white meat and chicken, turkey and fish can add healthy muscle tissue.

    In short, nothing is more important than one's health and this in my opinion, should be a parent's priority. In other words, a coach's pressuring a youngster to add 15-20 pounds of bulk, that may pose a health problem, in order to compete in school sports, is unacceptable! In addition I would suggest, if you have'nt done so, to have your son go through a comprehensive physical exam including cardiac testing to ensure he is physically up to par to engage in heavy contact sports. There are too many stories of youngsters engaging in such sports with undetected medical problems that can result in some serious medical consequences. I don't mean to come across as an alarmist but quite frankly when it comes to family or friends I could'nt care less about the expectations of a coach BUT what is in the best interests of my significant other. Just my opinion.
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    Originally Posted by bellaone1965 View Post
    My son plays football n is training of course bulking .. for the up coming season his coach wants him to gain 15- 20 lbs...
    I pretty much agree w. what Carl already posted. I should also say that I have a generally negative opinion of some (not all) coaches and training for H/S and College sports, especially the "money" team sports like football.

    Young athletes often take supplements before their body can use them. Meaning, before the body has reached the limits of size or strength it is capable on its own. Supplements are taken to speed the process up, not to help push past limits. Not a good long-term strategy, in my personal opinion. Joints don't get stronger, and skills do not get better faster just because you add a few more lbs of muscle.

    School coaches are sort-of in the opposite situation. They only have access to an athlete for 2-3 years. They HAVE to push as hard as possible to get each athlete ready for competition when they can use them, not when a player is ready to graduate. The rate at which a coach can develop untrained players often makes the difference in a winning or losing season for a team and for the coach.

    Having said that, someone in his mid-teens should be able to add 15 lbs of muscle in six months with a good diet and exercise. In a contact sport bulk is often what determines who gets hurt, you or your opponent. Whether it is a good investment in one's future is really up to the individual (and his parents) to decide.
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    Originally Posted by roehrigs01 View Post
    [*]At Large Nutrition Nitrean- - Protein: 23 g, Cholesterol: 23 mg (could be better)


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    Unhappy Dymatize Elite Whey & SupplementMarket

    Someone mentioned SupplementMarket dot com earlier in this thread as having a good price on Dymatize Elite Whey, which appears to have a good nutritional profile and low cholesterol, so I thought I'd try it for a change of pace. I ordered a 10lb box of Butter Cream Toffee for $44 plus shipping.

    Big mistake.

    The box arrived today & when I went and picked it up off the porch, powder was pouring from the box. The outer box had a small dent on the corner, nothing serious, the inner box was intact, but there is a hole in the plastic bag that the protein powder powder is packed in.

    So I contacted SupplementMarket right away, by email and by phone, thinking that they would want to know about this problem. Silly me! I didn't realize until 'Don' from SupplementMarket called to tell me that it's basically my fault.

    As he pointed out to me (this was prior to saying hello, how are you, or any of those other totally unnecessary greetings that so many people use), "We're not Dymatize! What're ya getting mad at us about" If ya think there's something wrong, contact Dymatize - they package the stuff, not us. Or contact UPS, they probably damaged the box in shipping"!

    Don was so concerned, he even yelled at wife when she answered the phone!

    Gee, and I thought customer service was something more than just two words... Boy did Don ever set me straight. Needless to say, I'll never buy anything from these jerks again. I've got a nice, uh, 8lb box (give or take a few more ounces that leaked out on my patio) of Dymatize Elite protein for $50, so I guess it's not a total loss.

    But I'm not the type of guy who sits back and let's a good deed go unpunished, so look out SupplementMarket, the flames have just begun. Usenet is my friend and I know how to use it!!
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    Originally Posted by bellaone1965 View Post
    Carl,
    Thank you so much for your thoughts to my question.. about the protein shakes ..My son plays football n is training of course bulking .. for the up coming season his coach wants him to gain 15- 20 lbs.which i feel is too much in such a short time .. Don't you think ?.. He is only a freshmen 15 yrs. 6"1' an 202lbs.. n is playing on varsity school team. what would you suggest .. for him for his pre n post workouts .. ? =) Bella
    well I would have to disagree fervently with carl.
    the fats in Muscle milk come from good sources. I have used it for years now and I have even used it while cutting.
    also there is no medical or scientific reason a 15 year old connot use protien supps or creatine.
    it is best to attempt to get your cals and protien from food whenever possible.
    but trying to take in 4000-5000cals ed is near impossible while trying to eat quality foods without protien supps. my only consern would be for his colon. too much protien can cause some issues with constapation and colon health.
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by roehrigs01 View Post
    ok...saw the doc today...she wanted to get a 2nd reading on the free cholestrol test I had... so I have a full chol panel tomorrow...I discussed a "solution" with her and she said it was good to go...

    solution:
    Cardio 3x 30mins a week
    Omega-3 1000mg daily
    Red Yeast Rice 1000mg daily
    Come back for another chol test in 3-4 months (aug 31st), get results to see what happen and go from there...

    Also she said use a low chol protein drink (-10mg per shake)...chol is chol and at this time I don't need any of it... weather is it dietary or from fat...especially since the liver makes chol too...

    She is also giving me a kidney check to make sure I am not intaking too much protein...

    all covered under my medical insurance...sweet! Wanted to ask for a testosterone test..but thought that would be pushing my luck...lol
    Glad to see your doctor is receptive to the Red Yeast Rice/Omega 3 combination.

    I know from my experience and from friends whom I've suggested this combination to, it has worked wonders where drugs have not helped or have caused side effects.

    Good Luck
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    I consume a ton of protein shakes (I couldn't eat 500-575 grams of protein a day) and my cholersterol is 180 and HDL at 50 at last check about a month ago. I think cholesterol is largely heridetary (I may be wrong), but agree that it is something you should monitor very closely.
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    Ramon: well I would have to disagree fervently with carl.
    the fats in Muscle milk come from good sources. I have used it for years now and I have even used it while cutting.

    Carl: Ramon, in fact it may have helped you cut" up but it is not so healthy for you! One liquid container serving of Muscle Milk has seven grams of Saturated Fat. According to the latest US guidelines one should not have more than 20 grams of saturated fat per day. The fact that a number of bodybuilders don't drink just one of these a day but two, three and more in addition to eating other sources of saturated fat from their meals means that they are ingesting way too much saturated fat and setting themselves up for future cardiovascular and circulatory disease as well as cancers! In addition, one serving of muscle milk containes 7 grams of sugar which is quite a bit and also does not include other sources of sugar coming from other dietary sources. This does not constitute a healthy supplement. Please keep in mind that in addition to "cutting" up our physiques, at least from my perspective, the goal of bodybuilding is to build good health and immunity to disease, not to promote it!

    http://mysupplementstore.com/mumirtdbycy.html

    Ramon: also there is no medical or scientific reason a 15 year old connot use protien supps or creatine. pretin, vitamin and mineral supplements.

    Carl: Although I am certain you have good intent in making such assertions but in fact you are incorrect. According to the article below (under the heading entitled "protein, vitamin and mineral supplements") emanating from Georgetown University, excessive protein can cause dehydration and renal toxicity in adolescents. In addition, extraneous vitamins and minerals can cause competition for absorption sites in the body and an excess of one may limit absorption of others in adolescents! The article concludes by indicating that adolescents should obtain their protein and vitamin and minerals from a varied diet.

    http://www.brightfutures.org/physica...ncerns/23.html

    Ramon: it is best to attempt to get your cals and protien from food whenever possible.

    Carl: True.

    Ramon: but trying to take in 4000-5000cals ed is near impossible while trying to eat quality foods without protien supps.

    Carl: Yes for an adult male bodybulder this may be true but this does not apply to the nutritional needs of a maturating 15 year adolescent.
    Last edited by Carl123; 05-11-2007 at 07:18 PM.
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    well Carl I tried to check yor reference material, but the page won't open.
    I even looked them up with yahoo search and could not open any of their info.
    I did do some searching in other areas and heve yet to find any definetive information one way or the other. just alot of talk from docs saying they can condem the usage of protien and suppliments but parents should way the beefits and risks. problem is they realy dont get into any conclusive risks.
    just alot of maybees. so again unless i can read some peer reviewed reaserch contradicting my beliefes, I am going to have to stand by them.
    I do believe that mineral supps can be dangerous. but water soluble vitamins are fine. and protien is fine. and you are correct about the sugar and saturated fat in MM.
    but I am over 40 so I get blood work 3 times a year my cholesterol is outstanding. my physical health is astonishing. is it genetics? possibly. but I believe its my lifestyle and vitamin suppliments and protien. I dont drink sodas or alcohol I dont smoke or do drugs, anymore for all those.LOL.
    but still I dont see any harm in giving an adolescent extra protien. I know that most docs say they get enough protien from normal intake of daily diets. but this is contrary to research on muscle development. and muscle development is the same in adolescents as it is in adults. they just have more natural test, but that also allows for better protien sysnthesis. wich in my opinion would mean less issues for adolescents than adults.
    less test= worse absorption of creatine and synthesis of protiens. more test means the exact opposite. so then how could protien be bad for adolescent males?
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    Originally Posted by frogbacks View Post
    TWO WORDS.........

    LINUS PAULING

    There's your answer!

    Vitamin C & Lysine

    Look at my BodySpace to see where I get and what supplement I take to hold LDL at bay.........

    The Rest Your Told Is Junior Leauge...Status Quo!

    Good Luck,
    Would there happen to be an interpreter in the house???? Please speak layman frogbacks..cause right now I really feel like giving a neg for wasting valuable reader's time...
    Last edited by roehrigs01; 05-12-2007 at 01:37 AM.
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    Ramon: well Carl I tried to check yor reference material, but the page won't open. I even looked them up with yahoo search and could not open any of their info.

    Carl: This morning I found the same situation myself. However, the information I provided was directly from Georgetown University and I will try later to see if I can retrieve it for your review.

    Ramon: I did do some searching in other areas and heve yet to find any definetive information one way or the other. just alot of talk from docs saying they can condem the usage of protien and suppliments but parents should way the beefits and risks. problem is they realy dont get into any conclusive risks. just alot of maybees.

    Carl: The following recommendations from Massachusetts General Hospital, one of the foremost research hospitals in the US (they publish the prestigious peer reviewed New England Journal of Medicine) does not recommend protein supplements, additional vitamin and mineral supplements or creatine for adolescent weight trainers as follows:

    http://www.massgeneral.org/children/..._training.aspx

    Ramon: so again unless i can read some peer reviewed research contradicting my beliefes, I am going to have to stand by them.

    Carl: Then Ramon please provide us with peer review research that supports your beliefs!

    Ramon: I do believe that mineral supps can be dangerous. but water soluble vitamins are fine. and protien is fine.

    Carl: This is not a matter of what you or I believe! It is a matter of what is the current research evidenced-based understanding of the nutritional needs of adolescent athletes and weight trainers. The report from Mass General Hospital does not support your beliefs that adolescent weight trainers should take additional protein, vitamin, mineral and creatine supplementation. In fact, Mass General Hospital clearly notes in regard to the protein supplement needs of adolescent weight trainers that "scientific studies have not supported any enhancement of muscle growth or strength from protein intake greater than the recommended amounts". In addition Mass General hospital posits that adolescents' who use creatine may be more prone to develop muscle cramps, diarrhea,muscle strain, fatigue, rashes, anxiety and nervousness!

    Ramon: and you are correct about the sugar and saturated fat in MM.

    Carl: I am glad to see that you agree with my statement regarding Muscle Milk containing too much saturated fat and sugar.

    Ramon: but I am over 40 so I get blood work 3 times a year my cholesterol is outstanding. my physical health is astonishing. is it genetics? possibly. but I believe its my lifestyle and vitamin suppliments and protien. I dont drink sodas or alcohol I dont smoke or do drugs, anymore for all those.LOL.

    Carl: Ramon, it is not clear why your health is "astonishing" and your cholesterol "outstanding". It may be your genetics, weight training, a certain food or other unknown factors that are contributing to your good health. So in fact we cannot draw any conclusions as to the exact reasons. Keep in mind my friend that what we believe is not necessarily fact and unless we know for certain we are engaging in speculation. Nothing more, nothing less. In addition, the fact that your cholesterol is "outstanding" and your health is "astonishing" has nothing to do with other bodybuilders who may have genetic factors that predispose them to cardiovascular, circulatory and cancer related diseases and taking in too much saturated fat from such supplements that you recommended and defended such as Muscle Milk can can lead to major medical problems for such susceptible individuals.

    Ramon: but still I dont see any harm in giving an adolescent extra protien. I know that most docs say they get enough protien from normal intake of daily diets. but this is contrary to research on muscle development. and muscle development is the same in adolescents as it is in adults. they just have more natural test, but that also allows for better protien sysnthesis. wich in my opinion would mean less issues for adolescents than adults.
    less test= worse absorption of creatine and synthesis of protiens. more test means the exact opposite. so then how could protien be bad for adolescent males?

    Carl: With all due respect Ramon your beliefs do not constitute facts. In fact you are making comparisons between the nutritional needs of adult athletes with those of adolescents that are not supported by the findings of reknowned research hospitals such as Massachussets General Hospital and many others. Of course if you can provide us with peer review research to support your beliefs I would like to review it.
    Last edited by Carl123; 05-12-2007 at 08:02 AM.
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  30. #30
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    Long thread!

    I use EAS Advantage 11 oz, at 20 mg cholesterol per.

    Not bad really. There are a lot worse foods than that. Still overall a clean food to eat.

    To get my cholesterol down, I did:

    Excercise - no effect - I was going from zero excercise to some.
    So I started pills - brought it down to target, but AMA dropped the target, so I still wasn't there. Continues pills.
    Added more olive oil to diet. PM for aglio e olio sauce for pasta. Good eats, excellent clean eating.
    Added guacomole. Hard to find the real stuff. Most guac at the store is actually sour cream with green food coloring (watch out, this is the opposite of what you want),
    http://www.gardenfreshsalsa.com/
    That's the real thing.
    All of this got my cholesterol down from 243 to 176
    Now I have increased excercise from some to a lot. It will probably over work. I get my blood test results on MOnday the 21st. If it is extremely low, I'll ask the Doc about changing the script to less.

    Too low cholesterol:
    Cholesterol is the primary building block to hormones. No cholesterol = no T, no E, no LH, no cortisol, no ah ah. I am not saying you shoul binge on potato chips to get T, it is much more complicated than that. I am saying watch out for too low Cholesterol (your Doc probably does not understand the concept - he'll say "Why do you think you need cholesterol to protect your T?" answer, because you do.)
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