Citrulline Malate = AKG?

[McBurly]

A while ago in my biology class my teacher was talking about citrulline being a precursor to arginine,
all the claims from CM seem to be the same as akg, this just seems like another no2 supplement with a different name...

anybody have any input about this?

[Spook]

yes citruline converts to arginine. But its time delayed. Citruline is actually quite interesting becuase not only is it time delayed but in some ways its localized as well to the sphelanic tissues and kidneys.

There are two possible takes on this. Citruline is a waste and you should jsut take arginine. Or citruline is superior because it keeps plasma levels consistantly elevated instead of flooding your blood stream where much of arginine gets converted to urea when its in excess. Thus you get better results and less side effects.

Which ever you belive I will leave it to you to investigate and decide for yourself.

[Big Cat]

Or use both of them together. Arginine and citrulline are essentially the same molecule minus the NO. Arginine is used as a substrate for NO synthase and NO is split from the molecule, the residue is citrulline. Citrulline is then recycled to form arginine as well. High citulline levels could actually impair, or as spook said, at least delay NO response, since a high concentration of citrulline will promote conservation of arginine and less NO formation. I would like to see what happens when both are used together actually.

However the merits of supplemental NO manipulation are still hazy at best, so it remains to be see if either is actually worth the money, which is the third possible take ...

[The Conqueror]

I plan to compare (the old Diesel's NOS) to Bodyoctane. I'll keep you posted.

[OxygeniX]

In a healthy population is blood flow limiting to nutrient uptake? If yes then there is a great point for NO use if no then what is the benifit? not mentioning the many possible negatives of free radical production.

An example is say oxygen extraction and lung tissue one you reach vo2max no matter what the perfusion rate of blood flow no further oxygen cannot be extracted?

For nutrient uptake you could argue that blood flow may not further enhance uptake if receptor sites are already saturated with x nutrient...

[Spook]

yes, many studies on how nutrient delivery is restrictd by blood flow. Just do a search for vascular resistance. Lots of good info to be had.

[OxygeniX]

hi spook thanks for the reply

had alook and NOT ONE if you have a few let me know?

like I said healthy population! not those with some for of vascular claudication.

[DevilSmack]

I'm taking Syntrax Nirous (arginine-di-malate) and SANN OX plus Stamin O2 (both CM products) together. I have been using them for about 3 weeks. I have not made any muscle gains, they just make me feel better in the gym. I think these products would have to be taken over a prolonged period of time, like 3 months, to see if they work at increacing lean mass. 3 months worth would cost too much to be worth it. Pass me the AAS.

[Gaius]

I took Nitrous(arginine-di-malate) for several weeks and noticed a greater “pump� during my workouts. Whether the product benefitted me in any other way was yet to be seen. After, three weeks I added CM to my supplement regimen while continuing to take Nitrous. While my diet and exercise regimen remained unchanged, the benefits I noticed from taking Nitrous vanished. After two weeks of taking them together and seeing no real benefit, I decided to stop taking CM and continue taking Nitrous. The benefits returned. Although a “pump� as a benefit is highly subjective, I do believe the arginine(Nitrous) was providing some benefit. A benefit that disappeared after adding CM. Can it be that the CM actually inhibited the benefits of the added Arginine?

[Big Cat]

Well, benefits is saying a lot. It could be that it decreased pump, since a higher citrulline content could be signalling the body that there is sufficient NO and not enough arganine, since citrulline is what remains after NO synthase makes NO out of arganine. However that means a larger amount of unconverted arginine which could be exerting other effects like increased GH and insulin release.

[OxygeniX]

I may be incorrect but I believe arginine brings about insulin signalling PRIMARILY through NO relelease?

Yet if the citrulline is switching of this signal how does the excess arginine enhance insulin release?

If the primary arginine pathway is inhibited or shut down, surely the smaller pathways arginine may effect for insulin release would not make up for the shortfall/decrease created in the primary path?

In essence this would lead to a net decrease in the insulin response, and not an increase?

[Big Cat]

I thought when I skimmed the literature for amino acid effects on insulin (though I wasn't paying much attention to arganine per se) that I read that ionic amino acids, such as the di-amino arginine, released insulin because of their charge.

if however, as you postulate, NO is the primary pathway through which insulin is released by arginine, then indeed conserving the arginine in terms of insulin release, would not be beneficial.