How to Lower Estrogen levels?

[MartialArtist]

I heard estrogen can lower your gains significantly, what are things people should avoid that would decrease testosterone levels and/or increase estrogen levels?

[parapete]

I don't really feel knowledgable enough to say what would lower test and raise estrogen as there is a lot of debate on that. I will say try to avoid stress in daily life and have good sleeping habits. Also, viratase is a prohormone that lowers estrogen.

[K (same)]

Viratase competes with androgens for the aromatese enzyme. It does not aromatize. By binding with the enzyme, it prevent other androgen from aromatizing into estrogen.

Viratase itself does NOTHING to the estrogen in your body.

Zinc supplement would optimze the natural test production in your body. It does not boosts jack ****, only to allow your nads to work at its natural best.

[hitmeoff]

Would Viratase also comprimise the gains of a prohormone like 4-AD, Nor-Diol or 1-AD?

[K (same)]

Arrrgghhhhh I hate it when some genius thriew a catch all kind oif question !

Use your brain!

1AD converts to 1-test. 1-test has no estrogenic conversion porperties: No estrogen ->. Viratase does JACK ****.

NorDiol ->Nandrolone; slight estrogenic conversion. Viratase can inhibit aromatization totally. As some amount of estrogen is beneficial to maximum growth, yes it would "compormise" maximum gains. Now if you don't give a **** about excessive water retention, gyno etc, then why the **** you take Viratase in the first place? You take it to control excess estrogen. Its an estrogen maintenance androgen.

4AD->Testosterone; aromatization of test to estrogen is an issue. Same situation re: use of Viratase.

[hitmeoff]

Ok K, maybe you can keep your spurs from jangling too much and check out what exactly it is thats I was asking. Taken from Big Cats PH article on estrogen-blockers:

"I'm worried about estrogen conversion. Should I take an estrogen blocker?

By no means. A certain level of risk is involved with these products, most likely a calculated one as you hope to gain something out of using them. But there are products that block estrogenic aromatisation. The most effective ones (Indole-3-carbinol for instance) do this by blocking aromatase receptor enzymes, and consequently the prohormone receptors as well. Sometimes 30-40 percent of the total. In return that translates into 30-40 % less conversion of the product to its target hormone and 30-40 % less effect. Seeing as how you can never completely eliminate estrogenic risk, it sounds kind of stupid to me to spend more money on a product that will give you less gains, without a guarantee of stopping the aromatisation. On top of that some products, like chrysin, will be added that have the same effect but are even less effective at stopping aromatisation. Try to avoid all products that use chrysin or I3C in a stack with prohormones. "

Ok, you ogt me, I wasnt thinking when I threw in 1-AD. I guess, well whatever, I guess I just plain wasnt thinking.

HOWEVER the question was still relative to the Nor-Diol, and 4-Diol. See I do give a **** about excess water retention and gyno. So Viratase sounded kinda interesting. My question on whether it will comprimise gains was more direct towards the above statement from Big Cat. Will Viratase, in addition to blocking estrogen receptors to other PHs, will it also block the PH receptors, and prevent them from converting, like Big Cat was saying. Thats what I ment by "comprimising gains"

Now after I asked this question, I got my new shipment of 1-AD. Bodybuilding.com was kind enough to include a pamphlet on Molecular Nutritions latest prohormones, one of which was Viratase. I just noticed what Viratase is, 5-alpha-androstaneDIONE.

5-AA is 5-alpha-androstaneDIOL, and BC talks about it as being a PH thats VERY ANDROGENIC, but also has the ability of being an estrogen blocker. SO now my questions to you all are these:

1. Is Viratase as Androgenic as 5-AA? (I dont want to ADD to the risk of andro sides, like acne) and if so,
2. Is there a dosage that will act effectively as an estrogen blocker, but not increase the risk of androgeneic side effects significantly.

Thank you

[K (same)]

1 BC doesn't know jack **** I have told him to his face before hehehehe . The Belgium bohemian was drunk half the time when wrote those ****e. LMAO

2. Seriously though, Viratase is not in the same class as those mentioned in his articles. BC should update his writings. Also,some of his PH stacks are clearly not what he will recommend today. He would use transdermal over oral and would use 1,4 andro over NorDiol. Just a couple of examples.

3. For detailed info on Viratase www.molecularnutrition.net . If you have specific questions, ask Bill LLeweyllen (sp). I don't work for them nor for Par or anyone in this business. Let them do their own customer education LOL

Just to tell you that, Ovrtrainer and HobbitBoy have both used Viratase to block excess estrogen aromatization. They followed the recommended dosage on the bottle. They all reported extremely effective inhibition of estrogen related side effect (water retention) and they both reported some of the best gains on a cycle.

Instead of having have to go thru the science (which is the vendor's job), I would just share this real world result with you and you be the judge. just a note, OvrTrainer was on 1-test and 4AD. Hobbit was on 4AD and something he does not want to share ( I know what it is, but I won't say )

[OVRTrainer]

Bump...just lending my support for K's comments. A very good synopsis by the way my friend.

[K (same)]

When the in-house counsel signed on, my ass is covered! LOL

[hitmeoff]

OVRT,

The recomended dosage is 1-2 caps 2-3 times a day. Thats anything in between 2-6 caps a day. My current stack has at its highest 1000mg of 4-AD and 750mg of Nor-Diol, then 750mg 4AD and 1050mg of NorDiol. What do you think would be a dosage that would be effective for these levels of PHs? This Viratase stuff aint cheap, so Im just looking for an effective dose.

[OVRTrainer]

Originally posted by hitmeoff
OVRT,

The recomended dosage is 1-2 caps 2-3 times a day. Thats anything in between 2-6 caps a day. My current stack has at its highest 1000mg of 4-AD and 750mg of Nor-Diol, then 750mg 4AD and 1050mg of NorDiol. What do you think would be a dosage that would be effective for these levels of PHs? This Viratase stuff aint cheap, so Im just looking for an effective dose.

Well quite honestly, 3 caps per day worked nearly as well as 6 caps per day at controlling water retention, which was my main goal. Your objective for using viratase does not seem clear in your prior posts, however if you are looking to limit some of the aromatization, while allowing for some estrogen to still remain present, then you will need to experiment with the dosages yourself. I'd have to guess somewhere between 1 or 2 pills per day or EOD. Three pills left me "very" dry, however I was using a much lower dose of aromatizable compounds. HobbitBoy stated that three pills kept him almost "too dry" for his liking, and he was using 4-AD in high doses.
BTW, a couple of things that may be helpful:
1-Viratase exerts a relatively "weak" androgenic effect and would probably not be too noticeable considering the doseages you're already using.
2-If you are using orals, take the viratase with your other "orals". If you're using transdermals, space out your use of viratase to about 6hrs between servings.

[hitmeoff]

Dude thanks a whole lot! And thatnks for your quick and to the point response! You cleared up pretty much all of my questions on this matter!