Methyldienolone Structure

[w_llewellyn]

Some interesting information I thought I’d pass along, since I understand there has been a lot of controversy over methyldienolone as of late. The compound being sold by one of the main suppliers in China, and sold in the U.S. as methyldienolone, is structurally not actually methyldienolone (17a-methyl-estra-4,9-dien-3-one,17b-ol). It is a variant of that compound, which would more correctly be named dimethyldiendiol (3,17a-dimethyl-estra-4,9-dien-3,17b-diol). This is a diol form of methyldienolone, with a second methyl group at the 3 position. Anyone testing these materials would want to compare their results to this compound.

This is a considerable difference from MD. For one, it doesn’t possess a 3-one group, which is what I would expect to see of an extremely potent steroid. Furthermore, the 3-methyl group should protect the 3-hydroxyl group from metabolism, so that conversion to actual methyldienolone in the body would not be possible. That doesn’t mean it will do nothing, as diols usually have intrinsic activity. But they also tend to be significantly weaker than their 3-one counterparts.

I am not making any sweeping claims about every methyldienolone-containing product on the market. Just passing along what I was openly informed about from the main manufacturing source for this material right now.

But since the supplier is not trying to hide it, it raises the obvious question…

[Baby Huey]

But Bruce ******* says this is the best prohormone, bar none! It must be true!

[American Hunk]

I don't understand why the supplier is making dimethyldiendiol when they are asked to make methyldienolone?

[legalgear]

Very interesting Bill. How did you come across this information? Not trying to be antagonistic, just wondering.

Eric

[1fast400]

It doesn't surprise me at all, it just confirms to a degree what many of us already thought. That being said I welcome anyone to test my stuff.

[neckcrank]

Originally posted by ********
It doesn't surprise me at all, it just confirms to a degree what many of us already thought. That being said I welcome anyone to test my stuff.

And would it test as a Dienolone or Diendiol compound?

[Jedi Master]

I LOVE IT WHEN BILL POSTS!!!


Hey if you check this thread again Bill I would just like to say I love your new hydroxytest ester gels, they work ****ing amazingly!!!

Anything else new on the horizon for molecular??

Originally posted by neckcrank
And would it test as a Dienolone or Diendiol compound?

it will test as the dienolone not the diol.

[StanChampion]

wow. Kill Bruce V2......

With PA's other post about BK's "products" and now this, Bruce has MORE explaining to do..again..hahaha

oh just shoot this Bruce *******

[Jedi Master]

Originally posted by StanChampion
wow. Kill Bruce V2......

With PA's other post about BK's "products" and now this, Bruce has MORE explaining to do..again..hahaha

oh just shoot this Bruce *******

Bruce will just dodge this question like all the other ones...

[artica]

It's amazing how crummy people become. I purchased a bottle of m-5aa from legalgear for $49, today I noticed Mike selling it for $26. It's a practice that is driving the supplement industry into a freakin frenzy. I'd love to hear Brock(hahahahaha)strasser explain himself on this one. Im not accusing anyone yet but goes to show the immature battle between one company and the other. What if Bruce is correct? what does that say about W LLe.?

It's come down to a "at your risk" industry. This is sad due to the potential danger associated with this.

Im beginning to think that this whole game is an attempt to rip off the consumer. What happened to creating for the purpose of pride? There is no shame now.

[NO MERCY]

Thanks Bill

[Bufford]

Hey Jedi Master,

I am interested in trying out Moleular new Hydroxytestosterone product as well. How much did you use daily? Did you spread that throughout the day or take it all in one shot? Did you stack it with anything else? How long will you be on, and how long do u plan on taking off?

thanks for the info

[j_neatherlin]

Originally posted by Bufford
Hey Jedi Master,

I am interested in trying out Moleular new Hydroxytestosterone product as well. How much did you use daily? Did you spread that throughout the day or take it all in one shot? Did you stack it with anything else? How long will you be on, and how long do u plan on taking off?

thanks for the info

how about starting a new thread?

[pita]

Originally posted by artica

Im beginning to think that this whole game is an attempt to rip off the consumer. What happened to creating for the purpose of pride? There is no shame now.

It has been for years and years, why stop now.

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by w_llewellyn

I am not making any sweeping claims about every methyldienolone-containing product on the market. Just passing along what I was openly informed about from the main manufacturing source for this material right now.

i will have to check out what the molecular weights of these compounds (there would be more than one isomer of this) and see if they are consistent with the results i got on the GC/MS. I will do this tomorrow. My first impresssion is that it makes sense

I would suspect little or no activity from this stuff. Thats my guess, and seems to be the consensus from users as well

I also tested *****s stuff, which is the same as sledge's new batch, or something like that ( i dunno the whole story) but whomevers stuff it was it tested out very well. OR, at least i can say it was one peak that was the correct molecular weight

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by w_llewellyn
Some interesting information I thought I’d pass along, since I understand there has been a lot of controversy over methyldienolone as of late. The compound being sold by one of the main suppliers in China, and sold in the U.S. as methyldienolone, is structurally not actually methyldienolone (17a-methyl-estra-4,9-dien-3-one,17b-ol). It is a variant of that compound, which would more correctly be named dimethyldiendiol (3,17a-dimethyl-estra-4,9-dien-3,17b-diol). This is a diol form of methyldienolone, with a second methyl group at the 3 position. Anyone testing these materials would want to compare their results to this compound.

This is a considerable difference from MD. For one, it doesn’t possess a 3-one group, which is what I would expect to see of an extremely potent steroid. Furthermore, the 3-methyl group should protect the 3-hydroxyl group from metabolism, so that conversion to actual methyldienolone in the body would not be possible. That doesn’t mean it will do nothing, as diols usually have intrinsic activity. But they also tend to be significantly weaker than their 3-one counterparts.

I am not making any sweeping claims about every methyldienolone-containing product on the market. Just passing along what I was openly informed about from the main manufacturing source for this material right now.

But since the supplier is not trying to hide it, it raises the obvious question…

correction. the molecular weight of the compound bill (oh, I am sorry......WILLIAM) talks about here does not correspond to what i saw on my GC/MS

unless there is some sort of dehydration reaction or something going on in the instrument

I will have to ponder this tomorrow.

I would not necessarily trust what these manufacturing sources say, whether it be positive or negative. They seem to have their heads up their asses quite far

[LIFT2beHUGE]

bum bu bu buuuummp

[min]

this getting interesting...again!

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
correction. the molecular weight of the compound bill (oh, I am sorry......WILLIAM) talks about here does not correspond to what i saw on my GC/MS

unless there is some sort of dehydration reaction or something going on in the instrument

I will have to ponder this tomorrow.

I would not necessarily trust what these manufacturing sources say, whether it be positive or negative. They seem to have their heads up their asses quite far

I calculate the MW of the dimethyldiol to be 302. If it dehydrates during analysis then we would get a product at 284.

Since there would be two isomers (3alpha methyl, 3beta-ol and 3beta methyl, 3alpha ol), I would expect the possibility of two dehydration products - plus a third.

they would be

the 3alpha methyl 2,4,9 triene derivative, the 3alpha methyl 2,4,9 triene derivative, and a 3-methylene 4,9 diene derivative

these could account for the 3 peaks with MW 284.

HOwever there is a very large peak with 282 in this sample also. I can't explain that

[min]

Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
I calculate the MW of the dimethyldiol to be 302. If it dehydrates during analysis then we would get a product at 284.

Since there would be two isomers (3alpha methyl, 3beta-ol and 3beta methyl, 3alpha ol), I would expect the possibility of two dehydration products - plus a third.

they would be

the 3alpha methyl 2,4,9 triene derivative, the 3alpha methyl 2,4,9 triene derivative, and a 3-methylene 4,9 diene derivative

these could account for the 3 peaks with MW 284.

HOwever there is a very large peak with 282 in this sample also. I can't explain that

So what does all this mean in simple words?
Could you please help me to understand.Thanks

[morigu]

Originally posted by min
So what does all this mean in simple words?
Could you please help me to understand.Thanks

I know what u mean.... Ya know I used to think I was a pretty smart guy...then I read posts like these and feel like Jethro Bodine trying to cypher and use my gozzzinttooss .

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by morigu
I know what u mean.... Ya know I used to think I was a pretty smart guy...then I read posts like these and feel like Jethro Bodine trying to cypher and use my gozzzinttooss .

if you are not very well versed in organic chemistry then its not gonna make any sense to you

i posted it for the one person who might possibly be on these boards that will understand and appreciate it

[brucekneller]

SEE BELOW FOR EDIT

[brucekneller]

Originally posted by bruce*******
This is just a hatchet job.

Evidence? BTW, Caleb Stone has a verifiable C of A for our methyldienolone that CLEARLY shows it is 97%+ pure and it is what it is supposed to be.

Odd that Caleb has never once mentioned receiving this information from me.

It's easy to attack another company's supplements with zero proof like this.

I have decided not to post on the boards much anymore, sort of like Bill L usually does, as I am busy trying to get new products developed and sold.

But it seems like the methyls are croaking Bill's new hexyl decanoate (read, expensive, not really any better than the THP ethers or undecanoate ester prosteroids) ester in sales.

So this is not really about purity. It is about profit. And Molecular's lack of it on the hexyl decanoate esters at the expense of methyldienolone sales in particular.

I am sure when we launch our next C-17 CH3 prohormone, which is being kept secret for the time being, and it croaks the sales of the other guys PH's, that they'll attack me again, say it is fake, contains adulterated ingredients, whatever because they are such "bastions of integrity".

You know, I heard a rumor, can't quite remember where, that these new hexyl decanoate esters are BS and just repackaged THP ethers. Boy, if this is true, and I am not saying it is, old Bill L sure pulled the wool over the eyes of all the consumers out there. I wonder if Mike McCandless will test a bottle of 1-testosterone "hexyl decanoate" for purity or if PA will test via GC/MS and make sure at least the dominant chemical entity has the same MW as "hexyl decanoate" ester.

You guys, believe whatever you like. I sent proof positive to Caleb, it was sent to him twice, he was put in touch with my supplier, he was give a copy of the results of the lab analysis conducted by a unversity chemist, an original copy with a red seal.

I am sure he'll come out with some story as to how this C of A he was provided with is not legit or whatever.

Bottom line is the stuff is selling like crazy and if you want to accuse me of something, at least consider that the people making the accusations have a vested financial interest in seeing my product take a nosedive and fail so they can sell more of their products.

This is absolutely true of McCandless who sells methyldienolone and of Llewellyn who's 1-test "hexyl decanoate" esters also are taking a hit because of the methyls.


Methyldienolone is a simple compound to manufacture, the non-alkylated at C-17a version is a high quality, pharmaceutical intermediary sold all over the place in China. Adding a methyl group to it at C-17a is not nearly as complicated as making a 1-ene steroid like 1-testosterone or 1-androstenediol is or even a trione like androstenetrione.

Funny how "the competitions" stuff purports to be ultra pure but by some funny reason, my stuff is crap and it is the "competition" that brings on the accusations.

Again, you guys believe whatever you like, but before you make your choice, think about who is saying what and if perhaps they have a real interest (read: $$$) in trying to knock me off as the major supplier, wholesaler and retailer of methyldienolone in the American market place.

And why is it only methyldienolone from China that is crap?
How about the M1,4AD or M5AA or the 1-testosterone hexyl decanoate? Has anyone bothered to "test" any of these?
No, rather, sock puppets (yes, check the IP addy's) of various supplement companies and my competition here take cheap swipes at the integrity of my product without one iota of evidence to back it up other than "they said so".

First PA says my stuff ain't what it is purported to be. Not like PA has any reason to cause me a serious problem or anything, I mean we wall know PA and I get along so well...

Now Bill L comes out says this without one iota of evidence other than, "he says so" or "he heard a rumor".

I'm not posting much these days and in fact, I am actually going to be in mainland China visiting three chemical factories during the month of May (I wonder how many other supplement companies have been over to China to inspect the factories and check out what's happening over there besides me?).

So flame on guys...but remember, Bill L, PA, Mike McCandless...that karma has a funny way of biting you in the ass when you least expect it.

Don't waste your time PM'ing me, I don't read this board often, if you have something to say to me, send me an e-mail or more than likely, I will never see it guys.


BK

[StanChampion]

Hmm a more "normal" post from BK, IMO. Makes some sense. He should have been prepared for any onslaught and this has probably made him wiser. I would still rather buy from Mike and PA, but who cares.

Why go to China when all this stuff is probably going to banned by that time anyway???

[brucekneller]

Name names, provide a contact number for the person making the accusations or shut the **** up Bill.

This is WAY too convenient and easy. Allow me to illustrate.


Some interesting information I thought I’d pass along a certain company claims that their new miracle ester is the most orally bioavailable prosteroid ester on the market. The compound being sold by one of the main suppliers in China, and sold in the U.S. as 1-testosterone hexyl decanoate, is structurally not actually 1-testosterone hexyl decanoate. It is two variants of that compound, which would more correctly be named 1-testosterone decanoate and 1-testosterone undecanoate.. This is no different then the 1-testosterone undecanoate that has been on the market for over one year now. Anyone testing these materials would want to compare their results to this compound in particular.

This is quite alarming since the MSRP of the hexyl decanoate ester steroids, because they are "new and exciting", are much higher than that of the THP ethers and undecanoate versions of the same prosteroids.

I am not making any sweeping claims about every 1-testosterone hexyl decanoate-containing product on the market. Just passing along what I was openly informed about from the main manufacturing source for this material right now.

But since the supplier is not trying to hide it, it raises the obvious question…

Wow, Bill...it's a shame about that. Now there are other companies selling the hexy-decanoate esters so I am not saying your company per se has the "fake stuff" but you know, as a friend, you might want to have your stuff tested or provide everyone with a C of A because you're such an honest man of the highest moral integrity and you'd never pull a fast one and rip off consumers, either knowingly or not, by putting a decanoate or undecanoate ester in your product instead of a hexyl-decanoate version or worse...a THP ether version.

I want to be perfectly clear here, I am not accusing Bill of anything, just using this as a fictitious example to illustrate how easy it is to "make unsubstantiated" claims like this.

But you folks should also realize, that the hexyl-d ester is not an easy or cheap one to make. It's bound to be liquid or waxy and I can't see how you can make this without the end product being a liquid gloppy goo full of unreacted 1-test and "hexyl-decanoic acid", I mean, how do you recrystallize this stuff? Either that, or I'd expect the stuff to be like a serious waxy substance, very difficult if not downright impossible to work with in making a capsule, especially a gel capsule. I'm not saying it is impossible to do...just that I can't imagine it being easy or cheap.

I mean, it really would be a whole lot easier to put an undecanoate ester or THP ether in the final product and call it a day. And the Chinese, and I am not saying they do this deliberately, are famous for substituting one ingredient for another. And since hexyl-decanoate sounds a bit like undecanoate, it is possibly the Chinese interpreted it as "undecanoate" or "decanoate".


Again, not hurling accusations here, just illustrating how easy it is to do so with ZERO tangible, verifiable evidence.

I don't know many people not seeing good result with methyldienolone. It is NOT the same type of results as with M1T. But the other issue everyone seems to forget is if the stuff was a dimethyl...it would me MASSIVELY hepatoxic. And since nobody is really complaining of any significant increase in LFT's of any sort, there should be serious doubt that this is a dimethyl.

And of course, PA will chime in with this 'dehydrates from 302 to 284 when I tested it", well if this is the case, then you're tests aren't worth ****, because when you tested the supposed "real" methyldienolone sample, what prevented that from dehydrating and also losing the methyl and giving you the wrong molecular weight, Pat? How do you explain away when you "allegedly" test my sample, the stuff dehydrates but when you test the "pure" simple the biggest ass kisser friend of yours provides you and is about to sell, it tests perfect, spot on and doesn't dehydrate or is not altered in anyway? Did you test the two samples in different manners, Pat? Wow, that would be...so unlike you (I remember you testing Biotest's 1-test product way back in the day after allegedly chemically altering it and then claiming it contains real testosterone...do you remember that, Pat? I can do a search on the boards for you if you like and post a link).

It's unfortunate that in the supplement industry, it really is caveat emptor for the consumer.

It is what it is.

But when people who have a vested financial interest in their products that compete against the person that they are trash talking, you at least have to wonder if they are being wholly truthful with you.

I provided Caleb with a C of A. End of discussion. If Bill, PA or McCandless want to continue to trash talk my product or the various sock puppets want to come out and say, "I took nine thousand grams of *******'s stuff for ten years and didn't gain one pound" then if you guys want to believe them, go right ahead. I'm no longer willing to sit on the boards and argue with anonymous people just trying to get a rise out of me or a sock puppet shill obviously from a rival company.

So if you have something to say to me, e-mail me or do not expect me to respond to it. I do not check this board more than once per week these days.

See unlike "some" companies, the pending andro-ban, while making me nauseated from a civil liberties standpoint, isn't going to put me out of business as Therachem has 8 products not effected by the ban in various stages of R&D.

We just got in our first batch of 7-keto-DHEA ether (I have a patent pending on this) which will make for an exceptional fat burner. Look for it soon (next couple of months) to hit the market.

Game over guys, again, E-Mail (not PM) me if you want a reply.


BK

Originally posted by w_llewellyn
Some interesting information I thought I’d pass along, since I understand there has been a lot of controversy over methyldienolone as of late. The compound being sold by one of the main suppliers in China, and sold in the U.S. as methyldienolone, is structurally not actually methyldienolone (17a-methyl-estra-4,9-dien-3-one,17b-ol). It is a variant of that compound, which would more correctly be named dimethyldiendiol (3,17a-dimethyl-estra-4,9-dien-3,17b-diol). This is a diol form of methyldienolone, with a second methyl group at the 3 position. Anyone testing these materials would want to compare their results to this compound.

This is a considerable difference from MD. For one, it doesn’t possess a 3-one group, which is what I would expect to see of an extremely potent steroid. Furthermore, the 3-methyl group should protect the 3-hydroxyl group from metabolism, so that conversion to actual methyldienolone in the body would not be possible. That doesn’t mean it will do nothing, as diols usually have intrinsic activity. But they also tend to be significantly weaker than their 3-one counterparts.

I am not making any sweeping claims about every methyldienolone-containing product on the market. Just passing along what I was openly informed about from the main manufacturing source for this material right now.

But since the supplier is not trying to hide it, it raises the obvious question…

[brucekneller]

Where do you think most of the creatine, amino acids and analogs, herbs and what not come from? CHINA!

BK

Originally posted by StanChampion
Hmm a more "normal" post from BK, IMO. Makes some sense. He should have been prepared for any onslaught and this has probably made him wiser. I would still rather buy from Mike and PA, but who cares.

Why go to China when all this stuff is probably going to banned by that time anyway???

[1fast400]

I'm not trashing yours, I just know that mine is pure. I'll posted the lab result on mindandmuscle.net.

You said you weren't producing it anyway right? You called me and said your 4 kilo's got stuck in customs and all this jazz. You weren't going to be making it anymore. That being said, why do you care? Was that a lie to?

Caleb has talked about the assay sent to him. You still don't have a single DOMESTIC lab saying your stuff is legit, period.

[carcinogen]

Originally posted by bruce*******

It's funny that Bruce is still in denial that the batches that were tested were not what was expected. I believe that there was more than his stuff that was tested that came out bad.

No one said md doesn't work.

Caleb did say he got your "C of A". Do a search...

seek professional help