HELP! I can't get back in the groove

[smoothmoose]

I NEED HELP! I'm having serious problem trying to get back into the groove and have not had a good workout in over 6 weeks.

If you look at my log below, you'll see I had pretty good bulk cycle and gained 30lbs in a little more than 4 months. However I started to plateau in mid Feb which I recognized and decided I should take things a little easier as I was overtraining. As such here are some of the actions I took from then to now:

Feb 23-29: Week off
Mar 1-27: Gradually reduced HIIT cardio to 3 -> 0 times/week
Mar 22: Start Cut (3500->3000kcal), start Glutamine
Mar 28-Apr 3: Week off and off Creatine
Apr 4-present: Weights 3times/wk (20-25% lower working weight), No Cardio

Note my first two months of bulking I was 4xWeights and 4xHIIT Cardio, my next two months of bulking were 3+3.

I am concerned b/c even though I've dropped working weight 20-25%, I am pushing the same amount of reps (around 8)!!! My weight has only dropped 5lbs, and who knows how much of that is Creatine water weight! However my preceived strength has dropped 20-25%.

One theory, I have is that since I have been off cardio for about a month, I am unable to push more reps as I have hoped...due to lack of cardiovascular conditioning. Obviously, going off Creatine and cutting doesn't help, but I feel as if my gains are quickly fading away!

I believe I am doing the "textbook" things right, in terms off recovering from overtraining: reducing # sessions, reducing length of sessions, no more HIIT cardio, Glutamine...but it doesn't seem to be working!

I don't know what to do next to get out of this rut! HELP!

[dookie1481]

Judging from the steps that you've taken, it seems you were overtraining at some point and haven't yet recovered. Could you post one or two of your typical workouts? It would help if everyone could see precisely what you were doing. I don't think quitting cardio would have such a devastating impact. I've quit at times too, and it had no discernible effect on my strength.

[Wanker527]

i can definitely relate to your problem, i've been there more than once. the decrease in your strength is most likely due to your CNS detraining. if you don't lift for a decent amount of time, your strength will almost always decrease a bit, even if your muscle mass remains the same. also, a cutting cycle will knock your lifts down a notch or two as well so i don't think that your position is all that odd. don't worry too much. just finish up with your cut, fight as hard as you can not to let your weights/reps decrease, and then turn your worries back to strength/mass. best of luck to you.

[Wanker527]

Originally posted by smoothmoose
One theory, I have is that since I have been off cardio for about a month, I am unable to push more reps as I have hoped...due to lack of cardiovascular conditioning. Obviously, going off Creatine and cutting doesn't help, but I feel as if my gains are quickly fading away!

overtraining is not as easily achieved as you may think. and cardiovascular conditioning will not have an impact on the reps you perform, unless you are utilizing high-rep full body movements such as 20+rep squats, in which lung volume and increased heart rate can become an issue. for example, you should not become heavily winded from doing a set of barbell curls or bench presses. if you do, you have bigger problems on your hands than overtraining.

[smoothmoose]

Originally posted by dookie1481
Judging from the steps that you've taken, it seems you were overtraining at some point and haven't yet recovered. Could you post one or two of your typical workouts? It would help if everyone could see precisely what you were doing. I don't think quitting cardio would have such a devastating impact. I've quit at times too, and it had no discernible effect on my strength.

Here is my typical routine. Obviously right now, I'm not doing HIIT cardio, so Tue, Thurs, Sat&Sun are off. My typical rep range was 6-8 during bulking. I'm trying to be at 10-12 for cutting...but I'm having trouble even at the reduce training weight. Excluding warm-up, my typical workouts take 75mins.

Monday (Back/Biceps/Abs)
PM: (22 sets + 1 drop set)
w.u. deadlift
3 deadlift
3 bent-over barbell rows
3 wide-grip pull-ups
3 seated close-grip rows – machine
3 standing ez-bar curls
3 seated flat bench barbell curls
3 double crunches – machine
1+1 crazy 8’s curls (pyramid drop sets)

Tuesday (Cardio)
Noon: 15min HIIT cardio

Wednesday (Thighs/Calves/Shoulders)
PM: (22 sets + 1 drop set)
w.u. squats
1 box squats – smith, full weight transfer
2 box squats – smith, touch and go
3+1 leg press – 45degs
3 leg curls
3 calve raises – smith
3 arnold presses
3 seated military barbell presses
2 lateral side raises
2 rear deltoid flies – machine

Thursday (Cardio)
Noon: 15min HIIT cardio

Friday (Chest/Triceps/Abs)
PM: (23 sets + 1 drop set)
w.u. dumbbell flies + press
3 incline bench press
3 barbell bench press
3 incline dumbbell press – 40degs
3 close grip barbell bench press
3 triceps pull-downs – v-grip
3 skull crushers
2 hanging leg raises (20reps)
3+1 pec deck – machine

Saturday (Cardio)
Noon: 15min HIIT cardio

Sunday (OFF)

[smoothmoose]

Originally posted by Wanker527
i can definitely relate to your problem, i've been there more than once. the decrease in your strength is most likely due to your CNS detraining. if you don't lift for a decent amount of time, your strength will almost always decrease a bit, even if your muscle mass remains the same. also, a cutting cycle will knock your lifts down a notch or two as well so i don't think that your position is all that odd. don't worry too much. just finish up with your cut, fight as hard as you can not to let your weights/reps decrease, and then turn your worries back to strength/mass. best of luck to you.

I've only at most taken one week off at a time. You really think my central nervous system is slacking? Do you think stopping HIIT cardio has significant impact on CNS? So you think maybe by taking it easy to recover, I have detrained my CNS? So really, I should not be overtrained anymore?

How much should I expect to drop my training weight if I usually do 6-8reps and want to target 10-12. I felt from past experience, 20-25%, should do it.

I'm sure some of my poor performance is psychological as well. Having bad workout one after another...doesn't help the mental game. But honestly, I do feel a lot weaker during my workouts. But I do feel healthy overall. So I don't think it's a mystery illness or something like that.

It's just getting very frustrating, and I really have no idea how to get out this rut.

Doug

[Wanker527]

Originally posted by smoothmoose
I've only at most taken one week off at a time. You really think my central nervous system is slacking? Do you think stopping HIIT cardio has significant impact on CNS? So you think maybe by taking it easy to recover, I have detrained my CNS? So really, I should not be overtrained anymore?

How much should I expect to drop my training weight if I usually do 6-8reps and want to target 10-12. I felt from past experience, 20-25%, should do it.

I'm sure some of my poor performance is psychological as well. Having bad workout one after another...doesn't help the mental game. But honestly, I do feel a lot weaker during my workouts. But I do feel healthy overall. So I don't think it's a mystery illness or something like that.

It's just getting very frustrating, and I really have no idea how to get out this rut.

Doug

from the way it sounds, i believe that a lot of it is psychological right now, and that's the toughest thing to get over. i'm a firm believer that your results are directly related to your belief in your own progression. it always seems that when i'm most excited about a little bit of growth is when the most growth comes thereafter.

tell you what...this is what i personally would do if i were you right now...stop all exercise for one full week. no cardio, no lifting. don't become completely sedentary, but avoid strenuous exercise, and eat healthy. if you're anything like me, you're going to be chomping at the bit to get back in the gym. i don't know how intent you are on continuing your cut right now, but i always find myself more motivated when i am bulking because of the mass/strength gains. maybe do a mini-bulk for 4-6 weeks to regain your strength (it will come back quickly, trust me). then go from there. best of luck to you.

feel free to PM me anytime, man.

[smoothmoose]

Originally posted by Wanker527
from the way it sounds, i believe that a lot of it is psychological right now, and that's the toughest thing to get over. i'm a firm believer that your results are directly related to your belief in your own progression. it always seems that when i'm most excited about a little bit of growth is when the most growth comes thereafter.

tell you what...this is what i personally would do if i were you right now...stop all exercise for one full week. no cardio, no lifting. don't become completely sedentary, but avoid strenuous exercise, and eat healthy. if you're anything like me, you're going to be chomping at the bit to get back in the gym. i don't know how intent you are on continuing your cut right now, but i always find myself more motivated when i am bulking because of the mass/strength gains. maybe do a mini-bulk for 4-6 weeks to regain your strength (it will come back quickly, trust me). then go from there. best of luck to you.

feel free to PM me anytime, man.

You're probably right, psychology is probably my biggest problem right now. It doesn't help that I am under extreme pressure at my office right now as well.

Though I think from a physiological standpoint, taking another week off probably won't make that much of difference...considering that would make it 3 weeks off, out of the last 10 weeks. My body really should be recovered by now. I am a little concerned about my CNS becoming a factor with another week off so soon.

But, notwithstanding all this, I think I'm still going to take it off. I hope, the extra week can hopefully allow me to resolve some of the problems I have at work...and allow me to be more mentally in game with my training the following week.

Wish me the best!

Doug

[JustBrowsin]

Originally posted by smoothmoose
You're probably right, psychology is probably my biggest problem right now. It doesn't help that I am under extreme pressure at my office right now as well.

Though I think from a physiological standpoint, taking another week off probably won't make that much of difference...considering that would make it 3 weeks off, out of the last 10 weeks. My body really should be recovered by now. I am a little concerned about my CNS becoming a factor with another week off so soon.

But, notwithstanding all this, I think I'm still going to take it off. I hope, the extra week can hopefully allow me to resolve some of the problems I have at work...and allow me to be more mentally in game with my training the following week.

Wish me the best!

Doug

I think I know where you're coming from. My track coach asked me to lose weight last summer and that was really my first "cut" but I didnt realize it as I wasn't into bodybuilding at the time, i just wanted to get over hurdles faster. Anyway, over the summer my lifting was going well but once school started back up it seemed a great deal of my strength had gone (i.e. bench max 305 as a soph to about 260 a few months ago) and i found that the more i pressed and fought it the more frustrated i became and it was definitely in my head. Well now I'm taking some time off from track for various reasons and have decided to go ahead and start bulking and it feels so good to really let loose again and see gains from week to week. If you go back with a mini-bulk and start experiencing your gains I'm sure it'll help get the mind right and once you decide to cut again your expectations based on this experience will help you to deal with it and keep your head right next time around. Good luck to you.

[Wanker527]

Originally posted by smoothmoose
Though I think from a physiological standpoint, taking another week off probably won't make that much of difference...considering that would make it 3 weeks off, out of the last 10 weeks. My body really should be recovered by now. I am a little concerned about my CNS becoming a factor with another week off so soon.

But, notwithstanding all this, I think I'm still going to take it off. I hope, the extra week can hopefully allow me to resolve some of the problems I have at work...and allow me to be more mentally in game with my training the following week.

Wish me the best!

Doug

i'm telling you, man..stress can do more to affect your training than almost anything this side of an injury. you really need to get the rest of your life in order first, then you'll be ready physically and mentally to tackle the challenge of pushing your body beyond its limits. you WILL get to where you want to be. just always know that you have to keep at it. i'm wishing you all the best, my friend.

[Nick666]

>> Mar 22, 2004: 165lbs (max bench 7x245lbs, max squat 8x365lbs, max deadlift 9x305lbs) - Start cutting (3500 -> 3000kcal)


Holy ****, you're ****ing strong for your size man..


And of course when you stop creatine you loose strength - at least 10% - and size - about 4-5lbs..

[Wanker527]

Originally posted by Nick666
And of course when you stop creatine you loose strength - at least 10% - and size - about 4-5lbs..

i guess i'm different, but i've never lost any strength from stopping creatine...always just a few pounds of water weight and perhaps a bit of endurance but that's it. no where NEAR 10% loss, that's a big loss...

[smoothmoose]

Originally posted by Nick666
>> Mar 22, 2004: 165lbs (max bench 7x245lbs, max squat 8x365lbs, max deadlift 9x305lbs) - Start cutting (3500 -> 3000kcal)


Holy ****, you're ****ing strong for your size man..


And of course when you stop creatine you loose strength - at least 10% - and size - about 4-5lbs..

Used to be strong!

Well, yesterday I decided last minute that I would work-out. I figured that most of my problems have been in my head. And if I were to overcome some of the other stresses in my life that I'm dealing with, I better get focused and overcome something that is within my control...that being the gym. So I hit every set hard yesterday...and when my 8th rep came up and I fought it...then I realized it really wasn't that hard...and before I knew it I was pumping 12-13 reps per set...back on target!

Thanks guys for helping me pin point my problem. I'm starting to feel much better about my workouts. Hopefully it continue moving forward.

Getting my workouts moving in the right direction is something that is very important. I puts me on the right track to address some of the more important issues I have to address in my life...

[Wanker527]

glad to hear you're headed back in the right direction!

just read my sig and really think about it...

best of luck to you, bud!

[Nick666]

Good luck man!