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  1. #1
    GiAnT KiLLeR willie's Avatar
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    Aromatase inhibitors

    With all the chatter about PCT, I was wondering if anyone knows the difference....the literature all is about the same, ingredients however aren't.So what is the difference in how the ingredients get results?
    Just looking at the over the counter stuff, since literature on Nova, and Clomid are all over.

    Formadrol V2 - 4-OH Androstenedione 75mgDiadzin 40mg

    Novedex - 4-Hydroxyandrostenedione: 50mg (Formestane)


    Formastat - 4-hydroxyandrostene-3,17-dione: 50 mg

    6OXO - 6-OXO (3;6;17-androstenetrione): 300 mg
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  2. #2
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    Re: Aromatase inhibitors

    Originally posted by willie
    With all the chatter about PCT, I was wondering if anyone knows the difference....the literature all is about the same, ingredients however aren't.So what is the difference in how the ingredients get results?
    Just looking at the over the counter stuff, since literature on Nova, and Clomid are all over.

    Formadrol V2 - 4-OH Androstenedione 75mgDiadzin 40mg

    Novedex - 4-Hydroxyandrostenedione: 50mg (Formestane)


    Formastat - 4-hydroxyandrostene-3,17-dione: 50 mg

    6OXO - 6-OXO (3;6;17-androstenetrione): 300 mg
    The 1st 3 are all the same thing. You can also add Syntrax Aromazap to that. They are mainly for suppressing estrogen and as far as I know small amounts convert to 4-hydroxytest so I suppose it could be in the PH category and IMO would be best on cycle.
    6-OXO free's up more testosterone than the others and doesn't convert to any PH's so IMO would be best PCT.
    I think the others (formastene) are best for estrogen suppression but it depends what PH's you use to determine what you want to use on cycle.
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  3. #3
    Registered User legalgear's Avatar
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    Daidzin is like Nolva or Clomid. A little is good and a lot isn't! We seem to think it is a good addition to Formadrol. It's a flavone that is found in many plants that may increase natural test production in a similar capacity to Nolvadex and Clomid. Also, Formastane is a suicide inhibitor similar to 6OXO, which is also a good product.

    EDog




    Zhonghua Nan Ke Xue. 2003 Nov;9(8):566-8. Related Articles, Links


    [Effects of daidzein on sperm quality, testis gain and testosterone in mice]

    [Article in Chinese]

    Han ZY, Wang GL, Chen W, Zhang LJ.

    College of Animal Science & Technology, Nanjing Agricultural University, Nanjing, Jiangsu 210095, China.

    OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effects of daidzein on sperm quality of male mice. METHODS: Three different doses of daidzein were supplemented to pubertal male mice for 21 days(5 mg/kg, 100 mg/kg, 1,000 mg/kg ration). The viability of sperm was determined by eosin-Y, the acrosome was observed by Wright-Giemsa staining, and the testosterone was measured by radioimmunoassay. RESULTS: Daidzein at the dose of 5 mg/kg ration significantly increased serum testosterone levels (P < 0.01), prompted testis gain (P < 0.05), and improved spermatozoa quality. Daidzein at dose of 1,000 mg/kg ration could inhibit the secretion of serum testosterone (P < 0.01), without significant variation in spermatozoa quality. Daidzein at dose of 100 mg/kg ration did not significantly affect sperm quality and other index. CONCLUSIONS: Daidzein can affect sperm quality and in dosage-dependant ways.

    PMID: 14689883 [PubMed - in process]
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  4. #4
    Banned Patrick Arnold's Avatar
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    Originally posted by legalgear
    Daidzin is like Nolva or Clomid. A little is good and a lot isn't! We seem to think it is a good addition to Formadrol. It's a flavone that is found in many plants that may increase natural test production in a similar capacity to Nolvadex and Clomid. Also, Formastane is a suicide inhibitor similar to 6OXO, which is also a good product.

    EDog




    Zhonghua Nan Ke Xue. 2003 Nov;9(8):566-8. Related Articles, Links


    [Effects of daidzein on sperm quality, testis gain and testosterone in mice]

    [Article in Chinese]

    Han ZY, Wang GL, Chen W, Zhang LJ.

    College of Animal Science & Technology, Nanjing Agricultural University, Nanjing, Jiangsu 210095, China.

    OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effects of daidzein on sperm quality of male mice. METHODS: Three different doses of daidzein were supplemented to pubertal male mice for 21 days(5 mg/kg, 100 mg/kg, 1,000 mg/kg ration). The viability of sperm was determined by eosin-Y, the acrosome was observed by Wright-Giemsa staining, and the testosterone was measured by radioimmunoassay. RESULTS: Daidzein at the dose of 5 mg/kg ration significantly increased serum testosterone levels (P < 0.01), prompted testis gain (P < 0.05), and improved spermatozoa quality. Daidzein at dose of 1,000 mg/kg ration could inhibit the secretion of serum testosterone (P < 0.01), without significant variation in spermatozoa quality. Daidzein at dose of 100 mg/kg ration did not significantly affect sperm quality and other index. CONCLUSIONS: Daidzein can affect sperm quality and in dosage-dependant ways.

    PMID: 14689883 [PubMed - in process]

    Back to the books EDOG!!

    mice are a very BAD example. mice and rats have a much different feedback mechanism for gonadal function than higher vertebrates (dogs, people etc).

    the main feedback signal in the male mouse is androgens, not estrogens (as it is in people). In fact, some estrogen in the murine species might lead to an increase in tesotosterone, not decrease (through increased pituitary sensitization to LHRH)

    Therefore this study is not only irrelevant, but highly misleading
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  5. #5
    Registered User legalgear's Avatar
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    Fair enough, let's look into it further.

    That was easy eh? I think I may come down and visit soon by the way unless you are going to declare war on me too.

    E
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    Nothing I say constitutes medical advise, check with a doctor before making any decisions. Our products do not treat or cure any disease and product claims are based on proper diet and exercise. Anecdotal results may not be typical.

    All offers are for US only. I love Canada, Europe and Australia, but due to shipping and supplement laws, I can not ship test ingredients or promotions to other countries.
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  6. #6
    GiAnT KiLLeR willie's Avatar
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    Originally posted by legalgear
    Fair enough, let's look into it further.

    That was easy eh? I think I may come down and visit soon by the way unless you are going to declare war on me too.

    E


    Both of you SHOULD get together and come to a common answer, or at least agreed explanations, coming from opposite ends and working together might just sort some of this PCT stuff out...I sure would appreciate it and I know alot of others sure would...yes, I am reasearching all I can, but just do not have the knowledge-base that you guys do......I've seen the other posts, quit bickering...
    Last edited by willie; 03-22-2004 at 06:55 PM.
    It's too bad workin' out can't fix ugly.
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  7. #7
    Registered User legalgear's Avatar
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    This thread is a more technical discussion
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    Nothing I say constitutes medical advise, check with a doctor before making any decisions. Our products do not treat or cure any disease and product claims are based on proper diet and exercise. Anecdotal results may not be typical.

    All offers are for US only. I love Canada, Europe and Australia, but due to shipping and supplement laws, I can not ship test ingredients or promotions to other countries.
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  8. #8
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    Daidzin and humans

    Here is a recently published study on the effects of highlevels of phytoestrogens (daidzin being one of them) and risk of prostate cancer. The point of this study wasn't to look at testosterone but it was measured and there was no correlation found between the phytoestrogens and testosterone levels.

    If you would like the full text PM me your email and I'll send it to you.



    Cancer Sci. 2004 Jan;95(1):65-71. Related Articles, Links


    Serum phytoestrogens and prostate cancer risk in a nested case-control study among Japanese men.

    The purpose of this study was to examine whether a high serum concentration of phytoestrogens reduces the risk of prostate cancer in a case-control study nested in a community-based cohort in Japan (Japan Collaborative Cohort (JACC) Study). Information on lifestyles and sera of the subjects were collected in 1988-90, and they were followed up to 1999. Incident and dead cases of prostate cancer and controls were matched for study area and age. Phytoestrogens and sex hormones in sera stored at - 80 degrees C were measured in 2002. Of 14,105 male subjects of the cohort who donated their sera, 52 cases and 151 controls were identified. Three datasets were analyzed; 1) all subjects, 2) 40 cases and 101 controls after excluding subjects with low testosterone levels who were suspected of having had medical intervention, and 3) 28 cases and 69 controls with prostate specific antigen level of /= 10.0 ng/ml. The odds ratio (OR) for the highest level to the lowest was 0.38 (95% confidence interval (CI); 0.13, 1.13) for genistein, 0.41 (0.15, 1.11) for daidzein, and 0.34 (0.11, 1.10) for equol for the second dataset. Genistein and daidzein showed similar findings in the third one. Equol and equol/daidzein ratio showed consistent findings in all three datasets (OR = 0.39, 95% CI; 0.13, 0.89, trend P = 0.02 for the first dataset). Their effects seemed to be independent of serum sex hormones. In conclusion, serum genistein, daidzein, and equol seemed to dose-dependently reduce prostate cancer risk.
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  9. #9
    Taking 4 NovedexXT a day MarcoNJ's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by legalgear
    Fair enough, let's look into it further.

    That was easy eh? I think I may come down and visit soon by the way unless you are going to declare war on me too.

    E


    Who else has PA declared war on now?
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