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  1. #1
    Registered User TheWatcher's Avatar
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    Angry MRI on shoulder, if you've ever had one read this.

    I just had one on Tuesday, dr. says (he's a general dr. by the way, not a shoulder specialist) that nothing appears to be torn,and that it looks like the tendons are just aggravated.

    This is such bull**** if the tendons were just aggravated I wouldn't have major shoulder instability and the symptoms of a possible labral/s.l.a.p. tear for the past 6 months with no improvement. I'm so f*cking frustrated right now as I don't know what to do. I've been living with this pain for 6 months and I want to know exactly what's wrong and get it fixed. I know that there's a lot more damage than just some "tendon aggravation"

    The MRI they didn't inject the shoulder with any solution which maybe made it not accurate enough? I don't know. I'm probably going to need a second opinion from a real sports doc. who deals with this stuff all the time.

    Anyone have suggestions?

  2. #2
    Registered User TheWatcher's Avatar
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    bump town

  3. #3
    Registered User oziem's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheWatcher View Post
    bump town
    pm me with exact symptom location and range of motion limitation
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  4. #4
    ΛΦΕ AphtaLyfe's Avatar
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    My doctor is a sports medicine specialist and even he doesn't usually read MRIs himself...

    If you have a suspected labral tear you MUST have it done with a contrasting dye. (MRI w/arthrogram... the dye is called gadolinium)

    An MRI without arthrogram sucks at detecting labral tears.

    With the recent development of contrast dye used to look at cartilage there is a difference between MRI w/ contrast and MRI w/arthroscopic contrast.

    MAKE SURE you get an MRI w/ arthrogram. w/o arthrogram the accuracy is crap. (although still good for rotator cuff tears and such, just not the labrum)

    Go see a shoulder specialist... or physician that specializes in sports injuries.

    -Good Luck
    MS4

  5. #5
    Registered User thebadguy's Avatar
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    i took my MRI to an orthopedic surgeon mate, go to a doctor who specialises in shoulders

  6. #6
    Registered User TheWatcher's Avatar
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    I dunno about another M.R.I. man, not just because I hated it but because it costs lots of $$ (the co-pay) and I know something is wrong in there for sure. I'd rather just go through surgery where they will see exactly what's wrong, as I think i need surgery anyways, (so does my old phys. therapist).

    It has been 6 months and it still is f*cked up, and there isn't just pain and weakness but actual structural damage as I can feel the shoulder catch sometimes and just a very uncomfortable loose feeling that doesn't seem to get much better with physical therapy, I think it's safe to say that I need surgery if I ever want to be able to have normal non painful/weird function in that arm.

    hopefully I can show the M.R.I. results to a shoulder specialist and they will see something that the other doctor/radiologist or whoever looked at it didn't see.

  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by TheWatcher View Post

    hopefully I can show the M.R.I. results to a shoulder specialist and they will see something that the other doctor/radiologist or whoever looked at it didn't see.

    I had my SLAP detected without the contrast dye so you dont always need that. Usually the MRI results are read by a radiologist specialist. These guys are at school for 14 years so if they didnt report a SLAP tear in the report chances are its not there. Do you mean that you actually had a general doctor look at the scans or just interpret the MRI report (which was written by the radiologist)?

    What I would do if I was you is book an appointment with a trusted Ortho Surgeon in your area and take your MRI copy to him. The arthroscopic surgery is also diagnostic and surgical so they can look in your shoulder and if they see nothing wrong, dont have to operate...on the other hand, if they detect something, they can fix it on the spot.
    Last edited by Buff_Daddy; 04-22-2007 at 01:32 AM.
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  8. #8
    Registered User TheWatcher's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Buff_Daddy View Post
    I had my SLAP detected without the contrast dye so you dont always need that. Usually the MRI results are read by a radiologist specialist. These guys are at school for 14 years so if they didnt report a SLAP tear in the report chances are its not there. Do you mean that you actually had a general doctor look at the scans or just interpret the MRI report (which was written by the radiologist)?

    What I would do if I was you is book an appointment with a trusted Ortho Surgeon in your area and take your MRI copy to him. The arthroscopic surgery is also diagnostic and surgical so they can look in your shoulder and if they see nothing wrong, dont have to operate...on the other hand, if they detect something, they can fix it on the spot.
    I'm not sure who looked at the MRI exactly and determined the results but I want to take the copy and bring it to a good shoulder ortho for sure and get their opinion. All the general doctor did was call me up and tell me the results.

  9. #9
    Registered User Propel's Avatar
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    like some of the ppl above said, you need dyes in your shoulder to detect SLAP tears in your shoulder.

    for my MRI app, i had an iodine solution injected as the xray dye, to make sure everything is flwoing fine. then they'll add a very diluted solution of a galonumium as the MRI dye.

    good luck.

  10. #10
    Registered User Mae's Avatar
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    my doctor said i didnt have a tear in me knee.


    three years later, they redid the MRI, after telling me not to waste my time or they didnt want to do it because it was "proven" i didnt have a tear. I had a tear. Sorry, man!


    ---- I have almost no cartilage in my knee. I'm 21.

    Be persistant.
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  11. #11
    Registered User TheWatcher's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mae View Post
    my doctor said i didnt have a tear in me knee.


    three years later, they redid the MRI, after telling me not to waste my time or they didnt want to do it because it was "proven" i didnt have a tear. I had a tear. Sorry, man!


    ---- I have almost no cartilage in my knee. I'm 21.

    Be persistant.

    Oh I will definitely be persistent, I'm not going to stop until I get it fixed. I think it's bull**** that they didn't put in the contrast dye in the first place, but whatever, i'll do whatever I have to do I guess. It isn't even the fact that I can't workout heavy that bugs me, it's that I feel it during everyday activities and it limits things I can do.

  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by TheWatcher View Post
    Oh I will definitely be persistent, I'm not going to stop until I get it fixed. I think it's bull**** that they didn't put in the contrast dye in the first place, but whatever, i'll do whatever I have to do I guess. It isn't even the fact that I can't workout heavy that bugs me, it's that I feel it during everyday activities and it limits things I can do.
    I'm going down the same road - only difference is I was able to go to a shoulder specialist first. I was sent off to get an MRI with contrast and it appears that I have a Laberal Tear (and a bone spur).

    I'm due for surgery to take out the bone spur and confirm/repair the Laberal Tear (though is a chance it isn't torn - he says the MRI is never 100% for sure).

    The part that gets me is he says outside of the phsyical therapy I'll most likely never be seriously back in the gym. This part I dispute. There's got to be a way I can get my shoulder back to snuff. There's got to be champion lifters/bodybuilders/footballers/etc that have had this surgery and been back in action as good as before. Any help on that one?

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  13. #13
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    ^^^^^^

    If your doctor is telling you this, might want to get another doctor who deals with a lot of athletes. I've known a few people personally, plus read about many accounts of people getting surgery for a torn labrum and being able to come back to lifting weights with few limitations. A lot of the guys on this board have had this kind of surgery and are back lifting heavy, obviously limiting some dangerous exercises though, but variations can be done. Flat dumbbell bench instead of flat barbell bench for example, never doing behind the neck exercises. Powerlifter Sam Byrd had just gotten his labrum repaired I think in September or October, I don't think he is back to maxing out on bench press yet but had gotten 225 for 29 reps recently ( I remember reading that he did 405 for 5 raw before his injury). Might want to check this out, a recent research study done on contact athletes who have had labrum repairs.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by Mae View Post
    my doctor said i didnt have a tear in me knee.


    three years later, they redid the MRI, after telling me not to waste my time or they didnt want to do it because it was "proven" i didnt have a tear. I had a tear. Sorry, man!


    ---- I have almost no cartilage in my knee. I'm 21.

    Be persistant.
    ****, im goin through similar crap right now with my knee. mri came out negative. im prolly gonna get an arthoscope if all else fails.

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    Originally Posted by TheWatcher View Post
    The MRI they didn't inject the shoulder with any solution which maybe made it not accurate enough? I don't know. I'm probably going to need a second opinion from a real sports doc. who deals with this stuff all the time.

    Anyone have suggestions?

    the MRI machines have advanced greatly in the past 5 years alot of top medical facilities have new ones that do not required an injection, i got mine 4 years ago and had an injection, alot of places dont need that anymore i have read
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  16. #16
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    For what it's worth, I had an MRI just about 2 weeks ago, and they did inject the dye to find the labrum tear.
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by LatsMakeTheMan View Post
    For what it's worth, I had an MRI just about 2 weeks ago, and they did inject the dye to find the labrum tear.
    Had one yesterday (arthrogram mri) but I won't know anything until Thursday, hopefully no tear.
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  18. #18
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    The reason I think I have torn labrum/SLAP tear is because my old physical therapist thinks that's what it is: While going through physical therapy about a month and a half ago for a few weeks, the p.t. did some tests where they moved my arm in weird ways and noticed that the shoulder was pretty unstable, I remember they had my arm in a few weird positions (I had to be totally relaxed otherwise they wouldn't work) and would push down and my shoulder would move a lot more than it normally should, the same case with my other shoulder but not as bad. This was also noticed when I was performing a few of the exercises they had me doing.

    The only test where I felt real pain was when I had my arm straight out in front of me, my thumb pointing toward the ground and then they pushed down on my forearm, causing a twinging pain deep in my shoulder joint. I have a feeling of instability in my shoulder daily

    To all you that have had confirmed labrum tears, what did exactly feel like? I mean on a day to day basis, any feeling of looseness?

    Even when I'm just walking I feel like I have to consciously keep my shoulder kinda shrugged because I can't just let it swing back and forth because it feels loose/unstable, not like it's going to totally dislocate or it hurts or anything but it's like i can feel the shoulder partially come out of the socket almost . Because of this I always walk with that hand in my pocket.

  19. #19
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    Looseness or apprehension about the joint is a classic symptom of a labral tear.

    Obviously since your arm isn't staying in place on its own... there is something seriously wrong with it.

    Possibilities:
    1. Ligament damage
    2. Tendon damage
    3. Muscle Damage
    4. Labral Tear

    All of which will require surgery.

    I just had my labrum repaired and the thing that bothered me most was if I went jogging my shoulder would pop in and out of place over and over again...

    The earlier you get a labrum repaired, the less complications you might have. The longer you wait... the more stretched out your ligaments can/will get and then you might need a capsular shrink to tighten everything up.

    -Good Luck
    MS4

  20. #20
    Registered User TheWatcher's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AphtaLyfe View Post
    Looseness or apprehension about the joint is a classic symptom of a labral tear.

    Obviously since your arm isn't staying in place on its own... there is something seriously wrong with it.

    Possibilities:
    1. Ligament damage
    2. Tendon damage
    3. Muscle Damage
    4. Labral Tear

    All of which will require surgery.

    I just had my labrum repaired and the thing that bothered me most was if I went jogging my shoulder would pop in and out of place over and over again...

    The earlier you get a labrum repaired, the less complications you might have. The longer you wait... the more stretched out your ligaments can/will get and then you might need a capsular shrink to tighten everything up.

    -Good Luck


    Thanks, This is what I'm saying and why I want to get my shoulder fixed ASAP. Waiting on this issue is doing me no good. The problem I now face is that the MRI doesn't show any damage (probably because no conrast dye was used, I would think this is some kind of malpractice on their part. I don't know anything about this stuff but I know damn well they should have injected my shoulder with this dye). I remember them having me sign a sheet saying they may need to use the dye, but it was only if they thought they needed to. I guess they thought they didn't need to.

    I'm going to take Buff Daddy's advice and meet with an orthopedic surgeon/shoulder specialist soon w/ my MRI copy and see what they say.

  21. #21
    Big Brother is Watching Chawk's Avatar
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    Red face

    Maybe you have arthritis.....
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    Registered User TheWatcher's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Chawk View Post
    Maybe you have arthritis.....
    lol I don't know about that. I'm only 21, been lifting since about 15, never really had bad noticeable pain/problems with this shoulder until 6 months ago. There's a good chance I'll probably develop arthritis in that shoulder a few years down the road but I'll worry about that when it comes.

  23. #23
    Registered User Propel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AphtaLyfe View Post
    Looseness or apprehension about the joint is a classic symptom of a labral tear.

    Obviously since your arm isn't staying in place on its own... there is something seriously wrong with it.

    Possibilities:
    1. Ligament damage
    2. Tendon damage
    3. Muscle Damage
    4. Labral Tear

    All of which will require surgery.

    I just had my labrum repaired and the thing that bothered me most was if I went jogging my shoulder would pop in and out of place over and over again...

    The earlier you get a labrum repaired, the less complications you might have. The longer you wait... the more stretched out your ligaments can/will get and then you might need a capsular shrink to tighten everything up.

    -Good Luck
    yup, everything he says is true. and its normal to have your shoulder feel unstable if you've got a labral tear. for me, its when i shrug my shoulders back , at the same time trying to make them widest. then try to move my right shoulder up. all of a sudden it drops and i can feel there being a gap in my shoulder joint.

    when you go visit a surgeon or specialist, ask him if you need a CT Scan as well. it might be necessary cuz if you've had many dislocations, there might be some deterioration of the glenoid fossa and/or head of the humerus.

  24. #24
    Registered User oihorse's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oihorse View Post
    I'm going down the same road - only difference is I was able to go to a shoulder specialist first. I was sent off to get an MRI with contrast and it appears that I have a Laberal Tear (and a bone spur).

    I'm due for surgery to take out the bone spur and confirm/repair the Laberal Tear (though is a chance it isn't torn - he says the MRI is never 100% for sure).

    The part that gets me is he says outside of the phsyical therapy I'll most likely never be seriously back in the gym. This part I dispute. There's got to be a way I can get my shoulder back to snuff. There's got to be champion lifters/bodybuilders/footballers/etc that have had this surgery and been back in action as good as before. Any help on that one?

    Horse

    Just a follow-up to my own post.

    Had the surgery 3 days ago, and am recovering well. Didn't need any of the pain killers (OK, I did once at 4:00am after the nerve block wore off - but that was it!)

    The MRI was wrong, no tears! Just 2 bone spurs mucking things up. They took them out, so should be a quick recovery and back into the gym! I think I used about 10 years worth of luck on this one. The doctors were totaly blown away that there was no tearing, especially with 2 bone spurs.

    Good luck to the rest with this problem and thanks for the advice!

    Horse

  25. #25
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    Originally Posted by oihorse View Post
    Just a follow-up to my own post.

    Had the surgery 3 days ago, and am recovering well. Didn't need any of the pain killers (OK, I did once at 4:00am after the nerve block wore off - but that was it!)

    The MRI was wrong, no tears! Just 2 bone spurs mucking things up. They took them out, so should be a quick recovery and back into the gym! I think I used about 10 years worth of luck on this one. The doctors were totaly blown away that there was no tearing, especially with 2 bone spurs.

    Good luck to the rest with this problem and thanks for the advice!

    Horse
    That's great news man. I have a small spur that may need to be cleaned out myself.
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  26. #26
    I used to have hair BradleyS's Avatar
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    figured you guys would like to see this

    these photos are mine from 2/20, a MRI w/ arthrogram on my right shoulder. 40% of the labrum is torn.



    Xray from them sticking the needle in. needle is 3.5 inches, just at an angle in the picture.



    second xray of the dye injected.


    here is one of the photos from the MRI. I can't exactly tell what is what, all I know is 40% of the labrum is torn. it's incredibly hard for me to tell where the tear is.

    I would post the photos from today (had my left shoulder done today), but I can't tell what is what...so i'll know soon what is torn in my left shoulder.

    surgry 5/25 on my right shoulder, wish me luck!
    Last edited by BradleyS; 05-07-2007 at 03:59 PM.

  27. #27
    Registered User TheWatcher's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BradleyS View Post
    figured you guys would like to see this

    these photos are mine from 2/20, a MRI w/ arthrogram on my right shoulder. 40% of the labrum is torn.



    Xray from them sticking the needle in. needle is 3.5 inches, just at an angle in the picture.



    second xray of the dye injected.


    here is one of the photos from the MRI. I can't exactly tell what is what, all I know is 40% of the labrum is torn. it's incredibly hard for me to tell where the tear is.

    I would post the photos from today (had my left shoulder done today), but I can't tell what is what...so i'll know soon what is torn in my left shoulder.

    surgry 5/25 on my right shoulder, wish me luck!

    Good luck with that man. I still need to schedule an appt. with a good shoulder ortho. surgeon in the area and have him take a look at my MRI and do a general shoulder exam also. My shoulder hasn't been feeling nearly as bad lately, a lot of the general pain i have throughout the day is gone, and I guess it doesn't feel as loose, but I still have some bad shoulder days. I think because of me strengthening my mid back and rotator cuff a lot it has helped, this allowed my shoulders not to roll forward so much and laying off the presses (doing pushups on blast straps instead), but pain with certain movements is definitely still there and I'm still very cautious with that shoulder. It has been exactly 6 months yesterday to the day when I hurt it. Although it is feeling a lot better if something is really wrong I would want to get it fixed now though because I'm young and it would recover quicker/better than if I wait until I'm older I think.

  28. #28
    I used to have hair BradleyS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheWatcher View Post
    Good luck with that man. I still need to schedule an appt. with a good shoulder ortho. surgeon in the area and have him take a look at my MRI and do a general shoulder exam also. My shoulder hasn't been feeling nearly as bad lately, a lot of the general pain i have throughout the day is gone, and I guess it doesn't feel as loose, but I still have some bad shoulder days. I think because of me strengthening my mid back and rotator cuff a lot it has helped, this allowed my shoulders not to roll forward so much and laying off the presses (doing pushups on blast straps instead), but pain with certain movements is definitely still there and I'm still very cautious with that shoulder. It has been exactly 6 months yesterday to the day when I hurt it. Although it is feeling a lot better if something is really wrong I would want to get it fixed now though because I'm young and it would recover quicker/better than if I wait until I'm older I think.
    I hear ya man. If you still have "bad" shoulder days, you need it fixed. For over a year now I have been having my good and bad days. They come and go for me. Get on it, get it fixed!

    Sounds like your shoulders are similar to mine, cept mine are worse (ortho suregon dislocated my left shoulder by accident in the exam room, LOL)

  29. #29
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    Moral of the story:
    MRI does not detect everything
    You can have instability and painful conditions with a normal MRI
    Not all problems need surgery
    Good rehab is vital with or without surgery

  30. #30
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    I have an MRI w/ Anthrogram on tuesday for a shoulder i dislocated almost 6 weeks ago. I was told that getting an MRI w/ Anthrogram is really the only way to get a good picture of the labrum, otherwise the quality is not acceptable.
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