This Board has become Filled with Genetic Scientist experts!!!!

[JOHN GARGANI]

razz me all you want on this, but I am being fed a steady diet of nauseating verabatim about why Genetics is everything and that people will never have this or that, will never and can never attain "shape",,,,can never improve their muscle peaks and so on and so forth because of their Genetics!

I say F%$# Genetics and F%$# the horse that he rode in on...

Can I say that on here??????

I mean: if you are going to take the attitude that you will never have a good biceps peak, or you can never change the "shape" of your body than why bother even sweating in the gym...

why bother really learning what bodybuilding is all about?

there is MOUNTAINS to learn about this sport, it is a never ending process......but lately, there are far too many experts on here, who have been training for a year or less or whatever, who have become Genetics Scientist and are so sure of what or what isn't a persons limitations....


YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT YOUR LIMITATIONS ARE!!!!!

and you never will if you buy into and cop the attitude that these board experts have......

like the NIKE commercial just do it.....

Work hard, eat great, rest well, take smart supplementation....

read, read read...

ask ask ask, preferrably from guys that look like they obviously did something right......

bodybuilding is a lifestyle, it is a committment, it is a belief in a system and in yourself.....

I have been lifting for over 30 years and in some ways, I feel I am still scatching the surface of what I would like to know and understand.....

but one thing for sure: I am not going to listen to any genetics bull**** on here, because I feel that I am still in the process of becoming whatever it is that I will eventually become, and I won't know what that is unless I continue to apply myself, both physically and mentally.......

to all this rash of Board naysayers and killjoys, I say:

GIVE THIS GENETICS COP-OUT A REST.......PLEASE!!!!!!!

[jino]

OK................if that's the case how would you go about improving your bicep peaks then or shaping a muscle if you really believe it's possible??????????

[JOHN GARGANI]

first reply by JINO a leading board pessimist and close minded individual.....

this is NOT a tutorial.....which you probably don't need, since you seem to know everything you need to know from the tone of your posts...

I am looking for a reaction to what I said concerning the concern of genetics......

[Bigpecs]

I dont think genetics play as big a role as alot of people think. To me its simple, eat alot and lift and you will get bigger. All genetics does is determine shape. ANYONE can get big though.

[jino]

No, I'm just interested in how you'd go about "shaping" a muscle.

[whutevr]

Genetics do play a role in muscle developement, BUT who really knows what your genetics are capable of? I don't remember coming with an instruction manual or schematic.

Just keep trying to improve.

[Damien]

I think you're misinterpretating some stuff being said.
People that try to give answers with references or scientific evidence are not always the same people that tell you genetics determine everything.
Of course they do, but just because someone tells you that you probably won't get an Arnold peak because you have predetermined flat biceps doesn't mean you can't get big still.

It's just that this inner chest or whatever BS shouldn't be thrown around everywhere. And some people argue with others stating these myths.
This still doesn't mean you can't have a huge chest, just that you can't magically get a better line between the pecs without getting the whole chest muscle big.

[Mr. Widebody]

Good point Mr. Gargani , I agree.

[acumenjay]

Great post John. I agree with you 100%. There are two many young kids (not that I'm old at 25) weighing in at 170lbs that have been training for 2 years preaching like they know everything about bodybuilding. If someone posts their opinion people jump down their throat first chance they get in an attempt to belittle them. Sorting through the BS on this board is becoming more and more time consuming and if I wasn't sitting here board as hell at work most of the time I doubt I would bother. I'm not pretending to know it all either, I would just like some people to keep an open mind about most of the posts instead of jumping on every thread preaching the same old bullsh*t.

[iron_on_my_mind]

I have a degree in Genetic Engineering and Physiology from the University of THE BACK OF MY FRIEND'S VAN, and a Masters in Kinesiology from the College of SOME GUY AT THE GYM.

lol.

[BigTraps]

Noone said you can't improve your bicep peak, you can get the entire bicep to grow, and if you have the genetics for a higher peak than someone else, then you will have the higher peak.

We're not saying you can't build muscle, we are saying you can't make your muscle grow a certain way. Maybe you should go to www.johnberardi.com and email him - he's one of the smartest bio/chemical/physical/nutritional people out there.


If it were true that genetics weren't important, then anybody who trains exactly like Ronnie Coleman, eats like Ronnie Coleman, and takes the gear like Ronnie Coleman, will look like Ronnie Coleman, and that simply is not true.

[Aray]

Way to motivate. I'm a newb to this board and I have absolutely no seniority in anything on here. But I do notice that a lot of replys about trying to get stuff bigger, gets abs shaped, a lot of it is genetics. I agree with that answer because what works for one person could possibly not work for another. I agree with John Gargani though, if you want to get a bigger bicep peak, you could definitely figure something out to get as big of a bicep peak as you want. Thanks for not making some people feel like they are only limited to what their body is currently at.

[hyp3r3xt3nsion]

so let's take your average gym goer who does concentration curls to peak their biceps. why, after like 4months of them, do they have the exact same peak as before? simple- you can't shift stress onto the 'peak'

/that's probably the simplest example there is. somebody with lots of potential but training poorly. if peak was not genetic, then those would be walking around with HUGE peaks. instead they're relatively flat.

[The Conqueror]

My potential is whatever I make it to be.

Simple as that.

People make ALL KINDS of excuses for why they CAN'T grow or peak or get ripped...they need to spend 50% less on supplements / 50% less time on the computer...and see what a difference a little DETERMINATION can make in their life.

[BPP]

theres a big difference between not limiting yourself based on percieved "genetics" and shaping a muscle....

no, you want shape

yes, you should say **** genetics

[Kane Fan]

Originally posted by JOHN GARGANI
first reply by JINO a leading board pessimist and close minded individual.....

this is NOT a tutorial.....which you probably don't need, since you seem to know everything you need to know from the tone of your posts...

I am looking for a reaction to what I said concerning the concern of genetics......

my reaction is that this is not appropreate for this section
it should be in misc. or POSSIBLY workout programs
it should be moved or closed

[Mr. Widebody]

A lot of the people who belittle others advice or personal opinion on execises are in this message board and most would not ever know or see it in the misc. and workout programs section. This post made a very good point and it needed to be seen here.

[hyp3r3xt3nsion]

Originally posted by The Conqueror
People make ALL KINDS of excuses for why they CAN'T grow or peak or get ripped...they need to spend 50% less on supplements / 50% less time on the computer...and see what a difference a little DETERMINATION can make in their life.

bump; but still, you can't shift stress onto the peak and force it to grow higher unless it will via genetics; otherwise i'd get rid of my damned flat peaks

[shy_sean]

I really don't want to get too far into this one. But...There is one thing people are not mentioning that is genetic and can make a very big difference...either positive or negative, and that is one's bone structure.

That, one simply cannot change.

I do think one can make any muscle look different, better, bigger and so on with effort and exercises tailored accordingly. As a general rule, this is more appropriate at a more advanced stage as a beginner will need to hit everything and gain sufficient mass in order to make any determinations about what may or may not need what. It is true that different exercises stimulate hypertrophy in different areas of a muscle. When this occurs, the appearance of a muscle will, by definition, change. That's a main reason why a variety is used. At a certain point, one will want to target specific areas in order to do what I prefer to call "sculpting" as opposed to shaping. That's really oversimplifying because this is a very complex aspect of bodybuilding.

How much something will change is ultimately determined by genetics and whoever could pinpoint that definitively would have to be omniscient. One cannot make any assumptions about if something will grow this way or that way and how much. One must simply keep working it. One may never really find out.

One area that can really be the "make or break" area is...shoulders. If a person has a narrow and rounded shoulder bone structure with a short and curved scapula...that's a very difficult genetic deck of cards to compensate for.

No, I would not be of the pessimist school of thought but rather more a pragmatist or realist if you will. I don't think it is so black and white because of all the variables.

They are as infinite as are each person's genetics are.

It's not an easy question and a very good, central question.

[JOHN GARGANI]

I would like to address a few quotes by Repliers:

to WHUTEVER: your quote: "Genetics do play a role in muscle developement, BUT who really knows what your genetics are capable of? I don't remember coming with an instruction manual or schematic.

Just keep trying to improve."

exactly! you got what I said!

to ACUMENJAY: your quote: "I would just like some people to keep an open mind about most of the posts instead of jumping on every thread preaching the same old bullsh*t. "

what an understatement on here!!!! Isn't is sad?

To BIG TRAPS: your quote: " If it were true that genetics weren't important, then anybody who trains exactly like Ronnie Coleman, eats like Ronnie Coleman, and takes the gear like Ronnie Coleman, will look like Ronnie Coleman, and that simply is not true."

you missed my point, I didn't say Genetics weren't important, I said, do not obscess on them or use them as crutches and excuses.....

to ARAY: your quote: " Thanks for not making some people feel like they are only limited to what their body is currently at."

it was my intention, and best of luck to your endeavors!!!

to Conqueror: your quote and a beaut!: "My potential is whatever I make it to be.

Simple as that."

That is why , you are the WARRIOR!!!!

to Hyperextension: your quote: " but still, you can't shift stress onto the peak and force it to grow higher unless it will via genetics; otherwise i'd get rid of my damned flat peaks"

you are falling prey to what I said, blaming it on Genetics....perhaps you are leaving out a few of JINO and the other's HIT and OT trainer's "worthless" exercises.....

how long have you been training , how old are you?? are you going to let genetics determine that you are uncapable of building a biceps Peak????

to KaneFan: if you have been following the recent rash of posts on this forum, you would understand why my rant most certainly does belong....

to JINO: I don't really mean to single you out buddy, and I am sure you are a dedicated lifter......but between you, and Hyper and some of the other HIT/OT guys narrowing everyones options and possibilities and BigNES and his crew telling everybody what exercises they should never ever do....man, take a step back and see what you are all doing, making people feel like this bodybuilding business is a periled adventure with numerous trap doors that they will fall into if they don't watch out! LOL.......

and to Widebody: as always, a voice of logic and reason.......




__________________

[hyp3r3xt3nsion]

John- i used a very simple example- you see lots of people doing concentration curls to peak their biceps. If it were indeed possible to peak their biceps, why do these people who absolutely no peak, even months down the road.

[Mr. Widebody]

Shy_ Sean Quote: One area that can really be the "make or break" area is...shoulders. If a person has a narrow and rounded shoulder bone structure with a short and curved scapula...that's a very difficult genetic deck of cards to compensate for.


This is a perfect example for me to explain to others on this message board why you should not believe everthing you hear from others. This is not meant to be disrespectful towards the person I'm quoting, just using it as an example. When I first started lifting weights I always noticed that no matter what I did my brother Derrick always looked wider and more square than me. He has very straight square shoulders so he has natural width. People would always tell me you will never look wide like him, you just don't have the build for it. My shoulders always sloped, not severely, but I was by no means square shouldered and I had a fairly narrow frame. Then I would do heavy military presses (180 pounds and up) with good form etc. like the other guys in the gym told me to do to simply bulk my shoulders up and I still did not look as wide as my brother who weighed the same I did. Friends would tell me it's just genetic there's nothing you can do about it. But I kept reading and experimenting with my own style of lying laterals behind back, standing bent arm laterals, heavy underhand thumbless grip chinups etc. Now I have a nice pair of lats and shoulders that easily fill out a large and sometimes x-large shirt so you can guess who is wider now. And that is without doing 800 pounds(obvious exaggeration but you get my point) on many of the compound movements alot people around here will have you believe is the only way to get big, there is more than one way to build a good physique. So I hope this little story will help all you out there the next time someone tells you that you just don't have the genetics for this or that. Listen to your heart and don't give up till you find a way achieve what you are looking for. Where there is a will there is a way. You can use your inner strength to overcome more obstacles than you may believe, so don't just bow down to others opinion in the name of science or anythin else. Also don't get caught up in everyone's opinion on what exercises to use or what exercises have worked or not or worked for them. Remember they may be experts on their bodies but not yours.

[jino]

You could increase the height of your bicep peaks by building the brachialis muscle or by making your biceps bigger. But you CANNOT change it's shape. I use to waste my time doing pointless concentration curls so why don't I have a good peak now?

[hyp3r3xt3nsion]

Originally posted by jino
I use to waste my time doing pointless concentration curls so why don't I have a good peak now?

me too

[T_Puller]

Yes...you can say **** on here.

[Damien]

Aagin, there's a difference between the people who know a lot and try to help others and people who know stuff but are too close minded to accept other stuff and maybe read up on it.

You shouldn't just bash anybody who informs himself in order to be mor eknowledgable and maybe help others out.

[hyp3r3xt3nsion]

Originally posted by T_Puller
Yes...you can say **** on here.

yaaaaaaaaay

[jino]

Originally posted by JOHN GARGANI
to Hyperextension: your quote: " but still, you can't shift stress onto the peak and force it to grow higher unless it will via genetics; otherwise i'd get rid of my damned flat peaks"

you are falling prey to what I said, blaming it on Genetics....perhaps you are leaving out a few of JINO and the other's HIT and OT trainer's "worthless" exercises.....

how long have you been training , how old are you?? are you going to let genetics determine that you are uncapable of building a biceps Peak????

This is not an insult or anything, but I'm really interested on how you'd go about getting some good bicep peaks if you believe it's true....

[hyp3r3xt3nsion]

Originally posted by JOHN GARGANI
to Hyperextension:

how long have you been training , how old are you?? are you going to let genetics determine that you are uncapable of building a biceps Peak????
__________________

either 9 1/2 of 10yrs. i forget exactly when i started. so just a hair shy of a decade

[GUNZOFNAVARONE]

john,

i understand your point about not letting the genetics card limit your growth. one will never know what they can accomplish until they get there. i do feel however that genetics do play a major role in what we are doing.

first, do you plan on being a competitive bodybuilder, or non competitive? this is something that we all have to decide. in reality, it is gentics that will determine this. take myself for example, i have been lifting for almost 6 years, i am 29 yrs old, and to be honest am pretty big. i have managed to go from a tall skinny 180lbs to 260lbs last year, now, i'm 250, 16%bf. i am fairly strong, and have some decent measurements. i do not think i would be a good bodybuilder for a few genetic reasons, i have wid hips and waist (about a 33-34" when dieted down), my shoulders, are narrow by my own judgement (not small, but the ratio to waist isn't there. my biceps do not have a great peak, i have 18" arms, but the peak is not that great. i have long tendon attatchments. all these are genetic factors that do "limit" me to a point.

how big i will become, and how defined, only time and dedication will tell. but i would ask that you at least realize that genetics are very important in this sport of ours.

hopefully, you don't consider me one of these genetic scientists, as i try to help as many people as possible.

GUNZ