here is one of my favorite old old school bodybuilders
Jim Haislop
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04-18-2007, 02:35 AM #121
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04-18-2007, 08:59 AM #122
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I prefer the Golden Age myself. I personally think that aesthetics have just been completely obscured by mass. I'm not taking anything away from today's bodybuilders; we all know that even stacking it takes hard work and spartan discipline.
Even into the 90's there were still class competitors like Flex Wheeler, Shawn Ray, and Bob Paris. Funny, though, I think bodybuilding can be paralleled to what I now call rap. It's the same mentality and as the younger fans (and competitors) came in it's like all they saw was size of the muscles (in hip-hop all they saw was the guns and money). Where did the class physique go? What ever happened to the emcee?
Large muscles ~ Guns and money
As long as there are people who remember that there's an artform involved, it won't die. Life happens in cycles, so I expect that somehow balance will come back in the realm of bodybuilding. Maybe Toney Freeman won't get super-huge and people will study the posing of Gaspari. Maybe the "christmas tree" will make a reappearance on the back of a Mr. O. Maybe Lee Haney whispered more in the ear of Ronnie than we know.
Wishful thinking, I know. But you gotta have hope.There is no such thing as tough. There is trained and untrained. Now which are you?
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04-18-2007, 09:16 AM #123
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04-18-2007, 09:26 AM #124
Here's Frank Zane, in his days, wearing a simple T-shirt.
It shows some decent arms and shoulders, and that's about it. By "decent" I mean I've met plenty of NATURAL amateurs bigger than that, at the same bf%. And I won't even comment on his legs.
Now someone explain to me how a man that looks good (note, GOOD, not GREAT) at an AMATEUR level, is chosen as THE BEST at a PROFESSIONAL level, because I simply can't understand it.
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04-18-2007, 10:06 AM #125
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04-18-2007, 10:35 AM #126
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04-18-2007, 10:40 AM #127
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04-18-2007, 10:42 AM #128
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04-18-2007, 10:49 AM #129
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04-18-2007, 11:59 AM #130
So what does Frank Zane in normal street clothes taken whoever knows when have to do with his size in an Olympia contest? Nothing. These guys went up and down in weight bigtime during the years.
Spirit 3530 made a great point, where are all these guys with bodies at the local gym you say exsist that can match these 70's and 80's guys?
Post 'em for us?
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04-18-2007, 12:09 PM #131
Now you're being ridiculous, yeah I go around the gym with a camera asking big buff guys "hey can I take a picture of you to post on the internet [no homo]?"
OK you want names, start looking for these:
Hola Bola
DiamondDelts
armymuscle01
..David... - at half of Zane's competitive age I guarantee he'd blow Zane away
john22perry
royGbiv
Looks like a good place to start. There I actually did that for your lazy behind, if you want more plenty to look for here.
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04-18-2007, 12:16 PM #132
The only thing thats keeps me from setting my goals to be Mr. Olympia is all the drug use I know some drug use is ok but to be a modern Mr. Olympia you have to do some heavy stuff. I would love to be an IFBB competitor but I don't want to risk my health at that level my health is always in jeopardy it may or may not give out which I don't like walking that fine line. I will use gear one day but even If I don't make it to the modern Mr. Olympia it will be because today's Mr. Olympia is not they should look like in my heart. I will shoot for personal perfection smilar to the 70's only with slightly bigger legs than they had back then. I wish bodybuilding reverted to more classic physiques.....
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04-18-2007, 12:34 PM #133
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04-18-2007, 12:39 PM #134
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04-18-2007, 12:40 PM #135
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04-18-2007, 12:43 PM #136
1) The question wasn't if they could match Zane in particular, but if they could match 70s pros, which they sure as hell can;
2) Those are all photoshoot pictures, when you're taking pictures with make up, high-quality cameras, manipulated lighting etc it's very different from taking pictures in your gym's lockerroom;
3) You obviously haven't figured out yet why Zane didn't let anybody take a picture of him posing without a large amount of twisting and bending. I'll go find a pic of him caught in between one of his extremelly elaborated poses and without fancy lighting, you'll see what I mean.
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04-18-2007, 12:46 PM #137
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Without any disrespect to the folks you mentioned....you must be joking. Don't get me wrong, all the guys you posted have great development and are superior in their conditioning, but not even close to the greats of the 70s and early 80s. Allow me to refresh your memory:
Check out: http://ironage.us/gallery/index.htmlIt's hard to win an argument with a smart person. It's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. - Bill Murray
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04-18-2007, 12:49 PM #138
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04-18-2007, 12:49 PM #139
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04-18-2007, 12:51 PM #140
don't bother I'm a bodybuilding historian I know all the past and the guys you mentioned can't compare with the best guy's from the 70's
regardless of photoshoot or not yes they make a diff. but those men are far outmatched in the genetic department when you compare the from the top 20,30,40,50 or even 300 from the 50's 60's 70's and 80'sLast edited by CloudSurfer; 04-18-2007 at 12:54 PM.
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04-18-2007, 12:54 PM #141
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04-18-2007, 12:55 PM #142
Well I never said that the GYM RATS of around here were as good as THE BEST from the 70s, I said they were as good as 70s pro bodybuilders, as in the average. You can't take a handfull that placed in the top of the O and use them as a representation of the whole. Or do you think all pro bodybuilders today are as big as Ronnie Coleman? The top guys are always on a different class.
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04-18-2007, 12:57 PM #143
One, i would venture to say that JJ doesnt use insane dosages of **** like others do. secondly, comparing an off season guy in the process of building muscle to a guy in contest shape who is not trying to build muscle is a silly and useless comparison.
everybody make fun of the "fat powerlifter", then cry when he diets down and enters a bodybuilding show smashing it. It doesnt look pretty getting from point A to point B. People who are not in an elite class will never realize this
None of this is to take anything away from surge. My hats off to him and my respect he has. I will also respect any man who sets out to achieve somthing and accepts looking like **** despite what others "think" to get there faster
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04-18-2007, 12:58 PM #144--- Ron Paul 2008!!! ---
Go 'BOOM', like you're saying, "Take a look at this hunk a man."
"That's the ultimate power -- your vocabulary. How you communicate. Study vocabulary. The more words you have, the better you can communicate, and the quicker you can put someone away."
Real men are not available. They are climbing mountains. They are swimming across rivers. What are YOU doing? Browsing a goddamn forum?!?!?!?!!
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04-18-2007, 12:59 PM #145
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Your words:
These are some of the pros of the 70s. Go to the ironage website and see more of them. By and large, they all own todays amateurs.
Since you complain about "photoshoot" pictures, what other types of pictures are available of these old pros in their prime? And while lighting does help somewhat, the pictures I posted were all outdoors. And even indoors, lighting will only help you so far. These guys had the physiques no matter what the lighting or photo conditions.
It's clear from your sig that you have an issue with Zane, but please don't go overboard and say all the 70s guys are beaten by todays gym rats.
Also, keep in mind that when someone has higher bodyfat, they look more muscular. When they cut into competition shape, they will lose some of their mass. Take a look at Mr.Aries bodyspace and you will see what I mean. He is more defined now that he is cutting, but not as massive looking as he was at the peak of his bulk. Point is, the guys you posted as "proof" were all higher in bodyfat than the pros pics that you are comparing them to. If they were to diet down to sub 10% bf, they would all look a lot smaller.It's hard to win an argument with a smart person. It's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. - Bill Murray
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04-18-2007, 01:04 PM #146
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04-18-2007, 01:07 PM #147
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You miss my point. I was comparing how one of today's top pros shows up for a guest pose and how an old schooler shows up for a guest pose. Serge was always just a few days away from competing. He didn't believe in an "off season" when you get fat and soft.
I don't think JJ has "smashed" any competition.
I would be very interested in how eating McDonalds, fried chicken and ice cream helps you "get there faster". It's not JJ's training that makes him fat in the offseason, it's his diet that sabotages him. He has admitted that he is very loose in the offseason.It's hard to win an argument with a smart person. It's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. - Bill Murray
Mods - my avatar is locked by the admin and can't be changed.
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04-18-2007, 01:08 PM #148
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04-18-2007, 01:09 PM #149
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04-18-2007, 01:12 PM #150
again, you make a good point....jj lacks discapline, bad example. Surge nubret also has unparrelleed genetics. My money sais that guys like dorian, trey brewer, king kamili, would not be where they are/were without taking food consumption to the extremes. or have not gotten there quite as fast.
hey man, read your own quote, my answers are in there between yours....kind of made a mistake, but look at the highlighted stuff and i have an answer oopinoon for each point
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