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  1. #121
    Banned CloudSurfer's Avatar
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    here is one of my favorite old old school bodybuilders
    Jim Haislop
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  2. #122
    A winner is you! ri0t67's Avatar
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    I prefer the Golden Age myself. I personally think that aesthetics have just been completely obscured by mass. I'm not taking anything away from today's bodybuilders; we all know that even stacking it takes hard work and spartan discipline.

    Even into the 90's there were still class competitors like Flex Wheeler, Shawn Ray, and Bob Paris. Funny, though, I think bodybuilding can be paralleled to what I now call rap. It's the same mentality and as the younger fans (and competitors) came in it's like all they saw was size of the muscles (in hip-hop all they saw was the guns and money). Where did the class physique go? What ever happened to the emcee?

    Large muscles ~ Guns and money

    As long as there are people who remember that there's an artform involved, it won't die. Life happens in cycles, so I expect that somehow balance will come back in the realm of bodybuilding. Maybe Toney Freeman won't get super-huge and people will study the posing of Gaspari. Maybe the "christmas tree" will make a reappearance on the back of a Mr. O. Maybe Lee Haney whispered more in the ear of Ronnie than we know.

    Wishful thinking, I know. But you gotta have hope.
    There is no such thing as tough. There is trained and untrained. Now which are you?
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  3. #123
    Keto FTMFW! Uriel_da_man's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ironager View Post
    I think Arnold put it very well, 'A bodybuilder shouldn't look fat when wearing normal clothes'....
    Being one of those who pushed the bar up himself when it comes to mass, I'm pretty sure he didn't think a bodybuilder should look skinny in normal clothes either
    It's UriEl btw

    Things I will take any chance I get to make fun of:

    -HIT
    -Frank Zane as Mr. Olympia
    -Biceptz boyz
    -Fat powerlifters talking thrash about bodybuilding while claiming to close the #x gripper
    -Overtraining
    -"How can I look like >random 140lbs guy<?"
    -HIT
    -Self-righteous guys who try to make everybody sound racist.
    -Phil Heath for Mr. Olympia
    -Strength workouts for bodybuilding

    I'll keep updating the list.
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  4. #124
    Keto FTMFW! Uriel_da_man's Avatar
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    Here's Frank Zane, in his days, wearing a simple T-shirt.



    It shows some decent arms and shoulders, and that's about it. By "decent" I mean I've met plenty of NATURAL amateurs bigger than that, at the same bf%. And I won't even comment on his legs.

    Now someone explain to me how a man that looks good (note, GOOD, not GREAT) at an AMATEUR level, is chosen as THE BEST at a PROFESSIONAL level, because I simply can't understand it.
    It's UriEl btw

    Things I will take any chance I get to make fun of:

    -HIT
    -Frank Zane as Mr. Olympia
    -Biceptz boyz
    -Fat powerlifters talking thrash about bodybuilding while claiming to close the #x gripper
    -Overtraining
    -"How can I look like >random 140lbs guy<?"
    -HIT
    -Self-righteous guys who try to make everybody sound racist.
    -Phil Heath for Mr. Olympia
    -Strength workouts for bodybuilding

    I'll keep updating the list.
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  5. #125
    I lift, therefore I am. Enso's Avatar
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    The Olympia is not contested in street clothes. What is your point?
    Last edited by Enso; 04-18-2007 at 11:09 AM.
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  6. #126
    Insert custom user title mark118's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Uriel_da_man View Post
    Here's Frank Zane, in his days, wearing a simple T-shirt.



    It shows some decent arms and shoulders, and that's about it. By "decent" I mean I've met plenty of NATURAL amateurs bigger than that, at the same bf%. And I won't even comment on his legs.

    Now someone explain to me how a man that looks good (note, GOOD, not GREAT) at an AMATEUR level, is chosen as THE BEST at a PROFESSIONAL level, because I simply can't understand it.
    His proportions were great. Back then, legs and back were less of a priority as they are now.
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  7. #127
    Keto FTMFW! Uriel_da_man's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Enso View Post
    The Olympia is not contested in street clothes. What is your point?
    My point is that Zane was tiny for an IFBB pro.
    It's UriEl btw

    Things I will take any chance I get to make fun of:

    -HIT
    -Frank Zane as Mr. Olympia
    -Biceptz boyz
    -Fat powerlifters talking thrash about bodybuilding while claiming to close the #x gripper
    -Overtraining
    -"How can I look like >random 140lbs guy<?"
    -HIT
    -Self-righteous guys who try to make everybody sound racist.
    -Phil Heath for Mr. Olympia
    -Strength workouts for bodybuilding

    I'll keep updating the list.
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  8. #128
    Insert custom user title mark118's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Uriel_da_man View Post
    My point is that Zane was tiny for an IFBB pro.
    I guess he was the equivalent of the 93' Flex (I think thats the rigth year) when although he was much lighter, before he played the mass game to match the others, that was when he looked his best
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  9. #129
    I lift, therefore I am. Enso's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mark118 View Post
    His proportions were great. Back then, legs and back were less of a priority as they are now.
    They weren't less of a priority. They were kept in balance with the rest of the physique so one body part did not over shadow another. The emphasis was on having a balanced physique.
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  10. #130
    Registered User Chris R.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Uriel_da_man View Post
    Here's Frank Zane, in his days, wearing a simple T-shirt.



    It shows some decent arms and shoulders, and that's about it. By "decent" I mean I've met plenty of NATURAL amateurs bigger than that, at the same bf%. And I won't even comment on his legs.

    Now someone explain to me how a man that looks good (note, GOOD, not GREAT) at an AMATEUR level, is chosen as THE BEST at a PROFESSIONAL level, because I simply can't understand it.
    So what does Frank Zane in normal street clothes taken whoever knows when have to do with his size in an Olympia contest? Nothing. These guys went up and down in weight bigtime during the years.

    Spirit 3530 made a great point, where are all these guys with bodies at the local gym you say exsist that can match these 70's and 80's guys?

    Post 'em for us?
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  11. #131
    Keto FTMFW! Uriel_da_man's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Chris R. View Post
    So what does Frank Zane in normal street clothes taken whoever knows when have to do with his size in an Olympia contest? Nothing. These guys went up and down in weight bigtime during the years.

    Spirit 3530 made a great point, where are all these guys with bodies at the local gym you say exsist that can match these 70's and 80's guys?

    Post 'em for us?
    Now you're being ridiculous, yeah I go around the gym with a camera asking big buff guys "hey can I take a picture of you to post on the internet [no homo]?"

    OK you want names, start looking for these:

    Hola Bola
    DiamondDelts
    armymuscle01
    ..David... - at half of Zane's competitive age I guarantee he'd blow Zane away
    john22perry
    royGbiv

    Looks like a good place to start. There I actually did that for your lazy behind, if you want more plenty to look for here.
    It's UriEl btw

    Things I will take any chance I get to make fun of:

    -HIT
    -Frank Zane as Mr. Olympia
    -Biceptz boyz
    -Fat powerlifters talking thrash about bodybuilding while claiming to close the #x gripper
    -Overtraining
    -"How can I look like >random 140lbs guy<?"
    -HIT
    -Self-righteous guys who try to make everybody sound racist.
    -Phil Heath for Mr. Olympia
    -Strength workouts for bodybuilding

    I'll keep updating the list.
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  12. #132
    Banned CloudSurfer's Avatar
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    The only thing thats keeps me from setting my goals to be Mr. Olympia is all the drug use I know some drug use is ok but to be a modern Mr. Olympia you have to do some heavy stuff. I would love to be an IFBB competitor but I don't want to risk my health at that level my health is always in jeopardy it may or may not give out which I don't like walking that fine line. I will use gear one day but even If I don't make it to the modern Mr. Olympia it will be because today's Mr. Olympia is not they should look like in my heart. I will shoot for personal perfection smilar to the 70's only with slightly bigger legs than they had back then. I wish bodybuilding reverted to more classic physiques.....
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  13. #133
    Banned CloudSurfer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Uriel_da_man View Post
    Now you're being ridiculous, yeah I go around the gym with a camera asking big buff guys "hey can I take a picture of you to post on the internet [no homo]?"

    OK you want names, start looking for these:

    Hola Bola
    DiamondDelts
    armymuscle01
    ..David... - at half of Zane's competitive age I guarantee he'd blow Zane away
    john22perry
    royGbiv

    Looks like a good place to start. There I actually did that for your lazy behind, if you want more plenty to look for here.
    are you serious? wow....none of those guys could even hold Frank Zane's gym bag nonetheless stand next to him when he was at his best....dude you are delusional...they have decent physiques but they would get their ass hand to them competiting against Zane it would be embarrasing man





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  14. #134
    Banned CloudSurfer's Avatar
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    Here is another great classic bodybuilder Bob Paris

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  15. #135
    Insert custom user title mark118's Avatar
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    aaah the vacuum pose, classic.
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  16. #136
    Keto FTMFW! Uriel_da_man's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CloudSurfer View Post
    are you serious? wow....none of those guys could even hold Frank Zane's gym bag nonetheless stand next to him when he was at his best....dude you are delusional...they have decent physiques but they would get their ass hand to them competiting against Zane it would be embarrasing man





    1) The question wasn't if they could match Zane in particular, but if they could match 70s pros, which they sure as hell can;
    2) Those are all photoshoot pictures, when you're taking pictures with make up, high-quality cameras, manipulated lighting etc it's very different from taking pictures in your gym's lockerroom;
    3) You obviously haven't figured out yet why Zane didn't let anybody take a picture of him posing without a large amount of twisting and bending. I'll go find a pic of him caught in between one of his extremelly elaborated poses and without fancy lighting, you'll see what I mean.
    It's UriEl btw

    Things I will take any chance I get to make fun of:

    -HIT
    -Frank Zane as Mr. Olympia
    -Biceptz boyz
    -Fat powerlifters talking thrash about bodybuilding while claiming to close the #x gripper
    -Overtraining
    -"How can I look like >random 140lbs guy<?"
    -HIT
    -Self-righteous guys who try to make everybody sound racist.
    -Phil Heath for Mr. Olympia
    -Strength workouts for bodybuilding

    I'll keep updating the list.
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  17. #137
    just skip it |ceman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Uriel_da_man View Post
    Now you're being ridiculous, yeah I go around the gym with a camera asking big buff guys "hey can I take a picture of you to post on the internet [no homo]?"

    OK you want names, start looking for these:

    Hola Bola
    DiamondDelts
    armymuscle01
    ..David... - at half of Zane's competitive age I guarantee he'd blow Zane away
    john22perry
    royGbiv

    Looks like a good place to start. There I actually did that for your lazy behind, if you want more plenty to look for here.

    Without any disrespect to the folks you mentioned....you must be joking. Don't get me wrong, all the guys you posted have great development and are superior in their conditioning, but not even close to the greats of the 70s and early 80s. Allow me to refresh your memory:



    Check out: http://ironage.us/gallery/index.html
    Xtreme Formulations

    http://lifehacker.com/5811255/why-you-cant-win-an-argument-on-the-internet

    I worked out with a dumbbell yesterday. I feel *vigorous*. - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=153326891
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  18. #138
    Banned CloudSurfer's Avatar
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    Keto FTMFW! Uriel_da_man's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by little_dan View Post
    Without any disrespect to the folks you mentioned....you must be joking. Don't get me wrong, all the guys you posted have great development and are superior in their conditioning, but not even close to the greats of the 70s and early 80s. Allow me to refresh your memory:



    Check out: http://ironage.us/gallery/index.html
    You people just won't look at the whole picture will you?

    These guys are the first that popped into my head, and you're comparing them with the top 5 in the world of their time... (and again I will mention that most of those are photoshoot pictures...)
    It's UriEl btw

    Things I will take any chance I get to make fun of:

    -HIT
    -Frank Zane as Mr. Olympia
    -Biceptz boyz
    -Fat powerlifters talking thrash about bodybuilding while claiming to close the #x gripper
    -Overtraining
    -"How can I look like >random 140lbs guy<?"
    -HIT
    -Self-righteous guys who try to make everybody sound racist.
    -Phil Heath for Mr. Olympia
    -Strength workouts for bodybuilding

    I'll keep updating the list.
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    Originally Posted by Uriel_da_man View Post
    1) The question wasn't if they could match Zane in particular, but if they could match 70s pros, which they sure as hell can;
    2) Those are all photoshoot pictures, when you're taking pictures with make up, high-quality cameras, manipulated lighting etc it's very different from taking pictures in your gym's lockerroom;
    3) You obviously haven't figured out yet why Zane didn't let anybody take a picture of him posing without a large amount of twisting and bending. I'll go find a pic of him caught in between one of his extremelly elaborated poses and without fancy lighting, you'll see what I mean.
    don't bother I'm a bodybuilding historian I know all the past and the guys you mentioned can't compare with the best guy's from the 70's



    regardless of photoshoot or not yes they make a diff. but those men are far outmatched in the genetic department when you compare the from the top 20,30,40,50 or even 300 from the 50's 60's 70's and 80's
    Last edited by CloudSurfer; 04-18-2007 at 01:54 PM.
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  21. #141
    Registered User joe447's Avatar
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    everyone keeps compairing Zane to the mass bbers of today. What about Arnold or Franco??







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  22. #142
    Keto FTMFW! Uriel_da_man's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CloudSurfer View Post
    don't bother I'm a bodybuilding historian I know all the past and the guys you mentioned can't compare with the best guy's from the 70's
    Well I never said that the GYM RATS of around here were as good as THE BEST from the 70s, I said they were as good as 70s pro bodybuilders, as in the average. You can't take a handfull that placed in the top of the O and use them as a representation of the whole. Or do you think all pro bodybuilders today are as big as Ronnie Coleman? The top guys are always on a different class.
    It's UriEl btw

    Things I will take any chance I get to make fun of:

    -HIT
    -Frank Zane as Mr. Olympia
    -Biceptz boyz
    -Fat powerlifters talking thrash about bodybuilding while claiming to close the #x gripper
    -Overtraining
    -"How can I look like >random 140lbs guy<?"
    -HIT
    -Self-righteous guys who try to make everybody sound racist.
    -Phil Heath for Mr. Olympia
    -Strength workouts for bodybuilding

    I'll keep updating the list.
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  23. #143
    Registered User IronReloadDC 04's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by little_dan View Post
    Not going to touch the Ruhl, nuts, 50 comment

    But, I will say the sport has changed a lot and there is a lot to be said for the old schoolers who viewed it as a lifestyle and maintained their physiques over the years. This speaks to the longevity of true bodybuilding, as compared with the medical experiments that are today's bodybuilders. (Let's see how many hormones and how much we can inject before they keel over).

    I am also amused by this comparison: One of today's top pros guest posing (Johnnie Jackson) vs. an Iron Ager guest posing (Serge Nubret - at 65 years old). I wonder how Ruhl, Coleman or other top guys will look at 65...

    Johnnie Jackson Guest Posing

    One, i would venture to say that JJ doesnt use insane dosages of **** like others do. secondly, comparing an off season guy in the process of building muscle to a guy in contest shape who is not trying to build muscle is a silly and useless comparison.


    everybody make fun of the "fat powerlifter", then cry when he diets down and enters a bodybuilding show smashing it. It doesnt look pretty getting from point A to point B. People who are not in an elite class will never realize this



    None of this is to take anything away from surge. My hats off to him and my respect he has. I will also respect any man who sets out to achieve somthing and accepts looking like **** despite what others "think" to get there faster
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  24. #144
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    Originally Posted by Uriel_da_man View Post
    You people just won't look at the whole picture will you?

    These guys are the first that popped into my head, and you're comparing them with the top 5 in the world of their time... (and again I will mention that most of those are photoshoot pictures...)
    So you're saying you want to compare the not so great bodybuilders from the 70's to amateur bodybuilders of today and say they do not differ that much in size? yes I can agree with that point and it says absolutely nothing....
    --- Ron Paul 2008!!! ---

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  25. #145
    just skip it |ceman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Uriel_da_man View Post
    You people just won't look at the whole picture will you?

    These guys are the first that popped into my head, and you're comparing them with the top 5 in the world of their time... (and again I will mention that most of those are photoshoot pictures...)
    Your words:

    Originally Posted by Uriel_da_man View Post
    1) The question wasn't if they could match Zane in particular, but if they could match 70s pros, which they sure as hell can;
    These are some of the pros of the 70s. Go to the ironage website and see more of them. By and large, they all own todays amateurs.

    Since you complain about "photoshoot" pictures, what other types of pictures are available of these old pros in their prime? And while lighting does help somewhat, the pictures I posted were all outdoors. And even indoors, lighting will only help you so far. These guys had the physiques no matter what the lighting or photo conditions.

    It's clear from your sig that you have an issue with Zane, but please don't go overboard and say all the 70s guys are beaten by todays gym rats.

    Also, keep in mind that when someone has higher bodyfat, they look more muscular. When they cut into competition shape, they will lose some of their mass. Take a look at Mr.Aries bodyspace and you will see what I mean. He is more defined now that he is cutting, but not as massive looking as he was at the peak of his bulk. Point is, the guys you posted as "proof" were all higher in bodyfat than the pros pics that you are comparing them to. If they were to diet down to sub 10% bf, they would all look a lot smaller.
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  26. #146
    Keto FTMFW! Uriel_da_man's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joe447 View Post
    everyone keeps compairing Zane to the mass bbers of today. What about Arnold or Franco??







    I'm not one to hate on Arnold but these vs posts of you guys are always so biased I'll give you an idea of what you're doing:

    It's UriEl btw

    Things I will take any chance I get to make fun of:

    -HIT
    -Frank Zane as Mr. Olympia
    -Biceptz boyz
    -Fat powerlifters talking thrash about bodybuilding while claiming to close the #x gripper
    -Overtraining
    -"How can I look like >random 140lbs guy<?"
    -HIT
    -Self-righteous guys who try to make everybody sound racist.
    -Phil Heath for Mr. Olympia
    -Strength workouts for bodybuilding

    I'll keep updating the list.
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  27. #147
    just skip it |ceman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronReloadDC 04 View Post
    One, i would venture to say that JJ doesnt use insane dosages of **** like others do. secondly, comparing an off season guy in the process of building muscle to a guy in contest shape who is not trying to build muscle is a silly and useless comparison.
    You miss my point. I was comparing how one of today's top pros shows up for a guest pose and how an old schooler shows up for a guest pose. Serge was always just a few days away from competing. He didn't believe in an "off season" when you get fat and soft.

    Originally Posted by IronReloadDC 04 View Post
    everybody make fun of the "fat powerlifter", then cry when he diets down and enters a bodybuilding show smashing it. It doesnt look pretty getting from point A to point B. People who are not in an elite class will never realize this
    I don't think JJ has "smashed" any competition.


    Originally Posted by IronReloadDC 04 View Post
    None of this is to take anything away from surge. My hats off to him and my respect he has. I will also respect any man who sets out to achieve somthing and accepts looking like **** despite what others "think" to get there faster
    I would be very interested in how eating McDonalds, fried chicken and ice cream helps you "get there faster". It's not JJ's training that makes him fat in the offseason, it's his diet that sabotages him. He has admitted that he is very loose in the offseason.
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    Keto FTMFW! Uriel_da_man's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ironager View Post
    So you're saying you want to compare the not so great bodybuilders from the 70's to amateur bodybuilders of today and say they do not differ that much in size? yes I can agree with that point and it says absolutely nothing....
    I didn't say not so great pros, I said normal pros. And my point is that amateurs today are as good as those.
    Originally Posted by little_dan View Post
    Your words:



    These are some of the pros of the 70s. Go to the ironage website and see more of them. By and large, they all own todays amateurs.

    Since you complain about "photoshoot" pictures, what other types of pictures are available of these old pros in their prime? And while lighting does help somewhat, the pictures I posted were all outdoors. And even indoors, lighting will only help you so far. These guys had the physiques no matter what the lighting or photo conditions.

    It's clear from your sig that you have an issue with Zane, but please don't go overboard and say all the 70s guys are beaten by todays gym rats.

    Also, keep in mind that when someone has higher bodyfat, they look more muscular. When they cut into competition shape, they will lose some of their mass. Take a look at Mr.Aries bodyspace and you will see what I mean. He is more defined now that he is cutting, but not as massive looking as he was at the peak of his bulk. Point is, the guys you posted as "proof" were all higher in bodyfat than the pros pics that you are comparing them to. If they were to diet down to sub 10% bf, they would all look a lot smaller.
    You still don't get it. Lou, Serge, Arnold, all those were regulars (and one of them regular WINNER) of the top IFBB competition of their time.
    It's UriEl btw

    Things I will take any chance I get to make fun of:

    -HIT
    -Frank Zane as Mr. Olympia
    -Biceptz boyz
    -Fat powerlifters talking thrash about bodybuilding while claiming to close the #x gripper
    -Overtraining
    -"How can I look like >random 140lbs guy<?"
    -HIT
    -Self-righteous guys who try to make everybody sound racist.
    -Phil Heath for Mr. Olympia
    -Strength workouts for bodybuilding

    I'll keep updating the list.
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  29. #149
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    I don't care what the judges say Arnold is better than Ronnie or Cutler
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  30. #150
    Registered User IronReloadDC 04's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by little_dan View Post
    You miss my point. I was comparing how one of today's top pros shows up for a guest pose and how an old schooler shows up for a guest pose. Serge was always just a few days away from competing. He didn't believe in an "off season" when you get fat and soft.

    jj was a bad example for me....Check into trey brewer to see what im talkin about. 300 plus plus pounds and ugly powerlifter at 18 years old. Now, 280 pound shredded mfkr who never would have gotten their as fast probably without going through the pwerliftging

    I don't think JJ has "smashed" any competition.
    He is an iffbb pro....It stands to reason that any iffbb pro has indeed smashed competition to become among the greatest in the world



    I would be very interested in how eating McDonalds, fried chicken and ice cream helps you "get there faster". It's not JJ's training that makes him fat in the offseason, it's his diet that sabotages him. He has admitted that he is very loose in the offseason.

    again, you make a good point....jj lacks discapline, bad example. Surge nubret also has unparrelleed genetics. My money sais that guys like dorian, trey brewer, king kamili, would not be where they are/were without taking food consumption to the extremes. or have not gotten there quite as fast.

    hey man, read your own quote, my answers are in there between yours....kind of made a mistake, but look at the highlighted stuff and i have an answer oopinoon for each point
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