Squat Problems

[eagle]

Been having knee pain with my squats. When doing them, my knees feel almost like all the weight is being fully supported on the knee area - lots of pressure. The day after, I'll get a sharp pain a little below my kneecap. This typically lasts for 5 days.

I've been focused on my form (low weight, back straight, weight on heals, parallel, etc), only to have the pain become more frequent. Here recently, I tried box squats - these seemed to cause more pain than usual.

Could all this be due my height (6'1) and how low I'm going? My knees are in great shape according to doctor.

Any suggestions on this would be appreciated. Wrap knees? Stay above parallel?

Thanks in advance.

[MiloMan]

How long have you been doing squats? Did you just start doing them?

[GJK]

Be careful that you aren't bouncing in the bottom position!

[Flash_Gordon]

If your having knee pain then I'd wrap your knees. I wrap mine starting at 225 cause I want my knee caps attached to my body latter on in life.

Also are you doing any sort of warm up before you squat??? If not you should do at least 10min of some moderate cardio to get the blood flowing and the joints and muscles warm.

Lastly whats your foot width position too??

[supadave]

I have the same problem and height as you eagle. i've been struggling with squat form for 3 months now. I started going with a wider stance, that seemed to help with the knee pain and back pain. I lowered the weight to 135 and did as many as I could and then some more. Thinking of going back to it later. Alot of people here do the high reps and get results.

[eagle]

I've been doing them on a smith machine (300lbs+) for the past 1.5 years. Pulled back on the heavy stuff when my knees started hurting(6 months ago).

Here recently(2 months ago),I switched to free weights. I figured the switch would help with the pain, not make it worse.

[balou411]

I've known a few tall guys and all say it's harder for them to do squats. All but one avoided them completely. You may want to not do squats and go with press or something else. Which does suck, but so does not walking.

[Most Muscular]

Tall people usually have a harder time doing squats with their longer legs... If your knees are protruding beyond your toes it is putting considerable pressure upon the knee. I see this form problem more on people who do squats on the Smith machine because they are not balancing the weight they don't realize how far out their knees are.

I used to also have a lot of knee problems but now spend a lot of time doing sissy squats before I lift to really warm up my knees... I also stopped doing many, if any, leg extensions because they put more shear force on the knees than squats do.

I have also sadly noticed that as my sex life has become less frequent my knees have improved. In my younger days I guess I did to much of the work.

[ojs]

Originally posted by eagle
Been having knee pain with my squats. When doing them, my knees feel almost like all the weight is being fully supported on the knee area - lots of pressure. The day after, I'll get a sharp pain a little below my kneecap. This typically lasts for 5 days.

I've been focused on my form (low weight, back straight, weight on heals, parallel, etc), only to have the pain become more frequent. Here recently, I tried box squats - these seemed to cause more pain than usual.

I'm only 5'11." But about 3 years ago I experienced very similar trouble with squats including the same sharp pain just below the kneecap. It got so bad my doctor shot cortizone straight into the kneecap to ease it. I completely gave up on squats until I some advice from my friend Troy Zucolotto, a pro bodybuilder who'd been workout partners with both Shawn Ray and Tom Platz.

What he told me was that quads grow with real high reps using light weight or low reps using very heavy weight. He set me up with a leg routine. The first time I tried it at my gym the guys laughed and had a lot of fun with me saying I would never have quads if I kept that up. My knees have never bothered me since. And I still follow this training style and my quads just keep getting better.

The basic quad routine:
Super set Leg Press & high rep Squats
Leg Press (use around 2x bodyweight)
450lbs - 5 x 12-15reps
Squats - (use around 1/2 bodyweight ass into the basement)
135lbs - 5 x 30-40reps

Leg Extentions (top 2/3 range of motion w/toes pointed in, squeeze 2count at top)
50lbs - 2 x 25reps

I started this routine Sept of 2001. Troy added a couple of things as time went by to increase the intensity. Around 7 months later everyone in the gym just shut up. My quads were as big or bigger than just about everyone. They went from a little over 24" to 26-1/2". Today 27-3/4"



PS: * also don't let anyone tell you where to put your feet. It makes very little difference except to your knees. Find a good wide stance w/ toes slightly out. What your looking for is that your heal don't roll in when you get to the bottom. And get your ass to the floor.

Here is a pic of 3 months ago.

[MiloMan]

Many tall guys say their height makes it difficult to do squats, but a fair number of tall (or very tall) guys manage to do squats pain-free, and go quite heavy and deep.

I'd like to see your stance (how wide it is, and ecatly which way your feet point). I'd also like to see if your feet are flat on the floor, or if your shins lean too far forward toward the bottom of the movement, causing you to place a board or plate under your heels to avoid "ankle crunch".

[PHIL DONAHUE]

i use no knee wraps becuase they can inflict more pressure on the knee and also make the cap rub against the inside more. a wider stance might help some but the biomechanics of a tall guy hurts his ability to bang out heavy weight . how many 7` tall guys win powerlifting meets? leg presses and hack squats might be your venue.

[BigDad]

I couldn't help myself but LOL at the title of this thread. Maybe I'm feeling a little sophmoric on a Friday afternoon. Had to point that out.

[MiloMan]

Originally posted by PHIL DONAHUE
how many 7` tall guys win powerlifting meets?

Hmm, how many 7' tall guys do you see on an average day, not including college and pro basketball players on the TV (who make, or are on their way to making, more money than a pro powerlifter could ever hope to earn)? Not very many, right? That's right, they are rare as hen's teeth. Nice try, but no cigar.

Now, if you'd have made it a less freakish height, 6'3"-6'6" for instance, there are several pro strongmen near that height (and they also make far more cash than a powerlifter).

Why would either of those 2 types of athletes burn their cash cow and train to be powerlifters?

[Veinpopper]

I myself have been struggling with squats and have just now finally given up. I'm 6'1" and have a lot of fat in my abdomen.

I have heard how the squat promotes muscle growth in the entire body and is perhaps the best leg exercise. So I very much wanted to add the squat to my leg routine.

I started on the Smith machine using an empty bar and bodyweight only. I had a sharp twinge in my back after one session later when I was stretching. I tried putting plates under my heels but then heard that puts more weight on the knees.

Another time with the Smith, I had to stop from knee pain, bodyweight only.

It was suggested that I try a free bar. So that last time I went in and tried the free bar, I couldn't do a full squat w/o my heels rolling up off the floor. It again put a strain on my knees.

I read that doing a half squat puts more strain on the knees because you have to stop half way and reverse direction. That if you go all the way down, the thigh kind of provides a sort of bumper and there's less chance of injury.

I also tried to find someone at the gym to train me in the squat but was not able to.......I give up!

P.S. I do 410 lbs. on the Leg Press machine and I also tried warming up the knees with light Leg Extensions. No dice.

[phikappa]

Originally posted by MiloMan
Many tall guys say their height makes it difficult to do squats, but a fair number of tall (or very tall) guys manage to do squats pain-free, and go quite heavy and deep.

I'd like to see your stance (how wide it is, and ecatly which way your feet point). I'd also like to see if your feet are flat on the floor, or if your shins lean too far forward toward the bottom of the movement, causing you to place a board or plate under your heels to avoid "ankle crunch".

Bump on the feet. Your toes should point slightly out.

Are you doing any running or any other cardio like stairmaster or biking?

I'm also wondering if your knees are coming forward. Your shins (tibia and fibula) should remain roughly perpendicular to the floor during your squat. The first thing that should happen when you squat is that your ass should go BACK not DOWN. This will keep your knees from moving forward and should put more pressure on your thighs and not your knees.

[Coliones]

I had the same problem. I blew my ACL in my right knee and never could do any squatting movements. Any time I did a squat I'd get about parallel with the floor and come crashing down due to my knee giving out and pain. I gave up on squats and went to the sled to rebuild strength in my knees. It took about 8 months and now I'm up to 1300lbs on the sled and squatting again (and loving it). I can hit a max of 315lb with no problems any more.

[eagle]

Thanks to everyone for responding. Great info here.

If your knees are protruding beyond your toes it is putting considerable pressure upon the knee. I see this form problem more on people who do squats on the Smith machine because they are not balancing the weight they don't realize how far out their knees are.

This explains the pressure I have been feeling.

I used to also have a lot of knee problems but now spend a lot of time doing sissy squats before I lift to really warm up my knees... I also stopped doing many, if any, leg extensions because they put more shear force on the knees than squats do.

Squats & deads are the only leg excersises I am doing. I normally do about 5 minutes of jogging and then a couple minutes of stretching pre-squat.

What are sissy squats?

I'd like to see your stance (how wide it is, and ecatly which way your feet point). I'd also like to see if your feet are flat on the floor, or if your shins lean too far forward toward the bottom of the movement, causing you to place a board or plate under your heels to avoid "ankle crunch".

After reading though all the replies, it is clear that the old stance was crap. I will try to have someone take pics of me doing them this weekend then post them here. I'd appreciate the feedback.

Are you doing any running or any other cardio like stairmaster or biking?

Nope, no cardio

I'm also wondering if your knees are coming forward. Your shins (tibia and fibula) should remain roughly perpendicular to the floor during your squat. The first thing that should happen when you squat is that your ass should go BACK not DOWN. This will keep your knees from moving forward and should put more pressure on your thighs and not your knees.

My knees had been coming way too forward.

Also, just tried ass back, not down and felt it in my lower back and legs. Felt like my back was a little bowed in. My back pointed more at an 11 'oclock position rather than 12. My ass was way the hell out there though. This normal?

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback!

[phikappa]

Originally posted by eagle

My knees had been coming way too forward.

Also, just tried ass back, not down and felt it in my lower back and legs. Felt like my back was a little bowed in. My back pointed more at an 11 'oclock position rather than 12. My ass was way the hell out there though. This normal?

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback!

.

It's okay that your back was at 11. In fact, it shouldn't be at 12 (I've never seen anyone do that). It's also okay that your ass was "out there". It may feel that way now that you altered your form. Again, as long as your shins are roughly perpendicular through the movement, you're fine. Also, your back should be arched. If it's not, then lower the weight so that your back can support it. I often see people making great efforts to do squats, but they never work lower back. You have to work lower back! Your squats will suffer if you don't. Carrying the bar in the correct position will also help to keep your back straight. It shouldn't rest at the base of the neck, but right on top of your shoulder blades.

Sounds like you're on the right track. Good luck!