Please clarify post-workout meals!!

[ClaytonG]

hey guys,

ive been lifting for over 3 years now, and I'm still utterly confused about what to have immediately post-workout, and then about an hour after that. could someone please help clarify?? right now, i have a protein/glutamine/creatine shake immediately post-workout, but i know this is not the best thing. i have heard i should be intaking high-gi carbs, but im not sure. please help a brotha out! thanks a ton!

[theHULK9281]

Post-workout shake should consist of a fast absorbing whey protein, and a carbohydrate source (low GI/high GI, your choice). There are other options, but these are the staples. Also, NO fat. Here's what mine looks like:

40g of protein from whey
50g of carbs from oatmeal (dextrose will suffice also)
5g creatine


Post-workout meal (about 1 hour later) should be a protein/carb meal. One of my choices:

12 egg whites
1 cup kidney beans
Multivitamin

[webbum]

Originally posted by theHULK9281
Post-workout shake should consist of a fast absorbing whey protein, and a carbohydrate source (low GI/high GI, your choice). There are other options, but these are the staples. Also, NO fat. Here's what mine looks like:

40g of protein from whey
50g of carbs from oatmeal (dextrose will suffice also)
5g creatine


Post-workout meal (about 1 hour later) should be a protein/carb meal. One of my choices:

12 egg whites
1 cup kidney beans
Multivitamin

Good luck

[theHULK9281]

Originally posted by webbum
Good luck

lol. I think you need it more than I do.

[ClaytonG]

thanks for the advice...

i have hear alot about dextrose and consuming carbs...where can i find dextrose to purchase? what about maltodextrin? is that good as well? if so, where can i get that too?

[webbum]

Originally posted by theHULK9281
lol. I think you need it more than I do.

Yeah! Ok, fatty!

[sawastea]

Originally posted by ClaytonG
thanks for the advice...

i have hear alot about dextrose and consuming carbs...where can i find dextrose to purchase? what about maltodextrin? is that good as well? if so, where can i get that too?

Dextrose

You can search google.com for maltodextrin

Maltodextrin is good but dextrose is better due to its science (it has less molecules then maltodextrin), therefore it is absorbed faster

[theHULK9281]

Originally posted by webbum
Yeah! Ok, fatty!

Kids these days.

[Richie]

ive been lifting for over 3 years now, and I'm still utterly confused about what to have immediately post-workout, and then about an hour after that

this subject confused the hell outta me for a long time as well and i tried many combinations and read many posts which just added to confusion.

but i did settle on one i've been doing for a while now and with good results!!!

pre workout i have 2 spoons of creatine & 2 spoons of dextrose. that's it. no protein. lots of water.

post-w/o (within 20 minutes) i have

6 egg whites
1 scoop of whey isolate
2 t-spoons of soy ISOLATE
2 spoons of creatine
6-8 heaping spoons of dry raw oats
and
1 large spoon of honey
all mixed in water.

basically it's a combination of slow & fast digesting protein & slow & fast digesting carbs.

just before i make this i have 1500 mg of ginger root caps & 1000 mg of ala (or 400mg of r-ala)
this has really helped with the bloat & lethargic feeling i used to get from my post w/o meals

then i shower & have a nap for an hour.

first solid meal after that is some sort of lean meat (mostly chicken) sweet potato & a huge salad.

these meals around training time have little to fats at all and then i won't eat at all for 3 or 4 hours after that.

i feel great on this. the rest of the day is protein, fibrous veges & good fats, salmon, fish oil, flax etc.

Richie

[canadion]

Dude...

Well, I am not sure how your culture is with supplements and food but I'll help you with the Brazilian one...It's the 1st time I've been here but I am part of the Brazilian forums.

You should take in "Whey protein" about 15 minutes after working out and also "maltodextrin" (I don't know the term in English. If it's not "Maltodextrin" it must be "Maltodextrose" although I think Maltodextrose is different. Here, I was told "Maltodextrose" is a supplement for horses! You must have a protein which will be absorbed fast and a carbohydrate with high glycemic index to recompound your muscle fibers after workout. Whey protein + malto are the most important. Don't forget todrink enough water all day long to help absorb better. One hour before sleeping, take in albumin with water. (You may take it with milk as well but prefer water. The albumin will feed you during the night for some hours since it's got a low absoption. You take albumin as well in the morning but you can have it with milk and a fruit of your preference if the taste is too bad...hehe...I know how bad it can be with water only. Ah, and don't take in too much frutosis because it may cause a little catabolism which will be noticed throughout the time. After workout have more proteins. Try to have less carbo after 6:00 pm unless you work out at night but eat normally with moderation, of course, with more proteins.Strength during workout, malto + whey protein is enough...Be sure.

[ClaytonG]

thanks to everyone for the help...ive decided, from all the advice, to go with:

Pre-workout:
-5 g creatine
-5 g glutamine
-BCAA/HMB
-No2

Post-workout:
-5 g creatine (powder has dextrose already mixed in)
-30 g whey protein isolate
-40 g rolled oats (grinded into powder form)
-water
-BCAA/HMB

if anyone sees any probems with this, dont hesitate to give any more advice

you guys have been a huge help, thanks a ton!

[Richie]

if you're not cutting at the moment i'd drop the glutamine.

also whey has an abundance of bcaa's so you may want to save some dollars and just stick to the whey post w/o

have a look through Big Cats articles

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bigcat.htm

it should help you out with most things you'll need to know

Richie

[canadion]

Originally posted by Richie
if you're not cutting at the moment i'd drop the glutamine.

also whey has an abundance of bcaa's so you may want to save some dollars and just stick to the whey post w/o

have a look through Big Cats articles

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bigcat.htm

it should help you out with most things you'll need to know

Richie

>>> Exactly! If you have whey, glutamine and BCAA's/HMB...just stick to the whey protein... The rolled oats, water, and dextrose are fine.
About the "No2", what is it?

[The Shizzy]

what about a banana p/w with my whey??

I take my whey right after, or noz.. and a bannana and multi thereafter, with a meal after that.

2 questions..
is the banana suffice?? Oats would prob be better, but it's not a viable possibility

secondly, sometimes i work out late at night.. say 11-12am..
and plan on sleeping at 2am.. i have a protein shake w/ milk before bed... is it good to have a carb meal after the workout still? (the 1 hour after one) . I'm just gonna go with some lean meats tonight no carbs..and the milk/protein before bed.

[Bily Lovec]

why no fat on post workout shake ?

its better to have some with your next meal in an hour or so ??

[Plop]

Originally posted by Richie
if you're not cutting at the moment i'd drop the glutamine.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bigcat.htm

it should help you out with most things you'll need to know

Richie

why don't take glutamine during bulking.......?????

don't you still need it for muscle reciovering ect ect

[ClaytonG]

for info on what No2 is (nitrus oxide), follow the link:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/no2.html

i just started taking it (sunday), but i have noticed greater endurance during my workouts. then again, it could just be me...i dunno. ill let you know if i see any specific results down the road, but from all accounts, i have heard that it really works. im currently using the product made by Pinnacle called "NoX2". its not as expensive as some of the others, but apparenltly its supposed to be just as good.

another question: does it have to be rolled oats in post-workout shakes?
are there any other options, such as the banana suggested by others?
does it really make that much a of difference what carbs it is, other than one is low-gi, and the other is high?

according to some other sources i have read, immediately post-workout it doesnt really matter the type of carbs you intake.

i could be totally off base with this, but let me know...thanks...

[canadion]

Originally posted by ClaytonG
for info on what No2 is (nitrus oxide), follow the link:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/no2.html

i just started taking it (sunday), but i have noticed greater endurance during my workouts. then again, it could just be me...i dunno. ill let you know if i see any specific results down the road, but from all accounts, i have heard that it really works. im currently using the product made by Pinnacle called "NoX2". its not as expensive as some of the others, but apparenltly its supposed to be just as good.

another question: does it have to be rolled oats in post-workout shakes?
are there any other options, such as the banana suggested by others?
does it really make that much of a difference what carbs it is, other than one is low-gi, and the other is high?

according to some other sources i have read, immediately post-workout it doesnt really matter the type of carbs you intake.

i could be totally off base with this, but let me know...thanks...

>>> If you use the Nitric Oxide for strength only, the
creating plays the same role but I skimmed the text and read
that it helps in a different way. I will read everything about it and post something about it soon.

For the post workout shakes, have whey + maltodextrin.
They will suffice. Maltodextrin is like normal sugar in taste and
is not so expensive as it will last. It's important to intake high-glycemic index carbohydrate 15 or 20 minutes after workout (the best time) so maltodextrin will do the job and whey will be the fast-absorption protein. If you want to have a banana in your shake you can, however, it's better to have fast-absorption protein mixed with maltodextrin in water so that it will absorb better. Despite the bad taste... After working out, the special need must be focused on fast-absorption protein + malto.
You can eat the banana before working out. It's a carbo so you can have it with maltodextrin in a shake before working out - it will give you more energy.

[canadion]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by canadion
[B]>>> If you use the Nitric Oxide for strength only, the
creating plays the same role but I skimmed the text and read
that it helps in a different way. I will read everything about it and post something about it soon.

>>> Sorry for the typo, where I put "creating" I meant "creatine"...

[canadion]

I translated some long texts from the Brazilian forums and they
shall clear an important part of your doubts. Be patient and read
everything as patience was all I had to have to translate all this.
The texts are by DAVIKING, one of the moderators of
the Brazilian forums. [Thank you DAVIKING!]

--------------
Steve-O wrote:
--------------
"Hi folks. I always take 30g of whey protein in a little bottle
attached to my bike, then as soon as I finish working out, I put some
water and there I go!
I would like to know if this method is right considering my aim is
hypertrophy. People talk a lot about shakes...Wouldn't they be good?
Do you know any webpage which teachs some nutritive recipes which
may help me?"

---------------
DAVIKING wrote:
---------------
"Having whey as you described is not forbidden, however, to maximize
the benefits related to the muscular anabolism after workout, this
supplement must be taken between 30' and 45' after working out (for
hypertrophy or definition).
It is interesting to break the catabolism with some high or medium
glycemic index carbohydrate as dextrose or maltodextrin and/or dose
of liquid amino acid rich in BCAA's.
Another ideal supplementation immediately after workout is Glutamine
in powder, better if put into the solution described (WATER +
5 grams of GLUTAMINE + DEXTROSE or MALTODEXTRIN)."

---------------------
canadion/my comments:
---------------------
I would have whey 20 minutes after working out but 30 or 45 minutes
is also fine as you can read above.

---------------
DAVIKING wrote:
---------------
"About Whey...There are 3 different phases of post-workout:

1) 30 minutes after the workout
2) 90 minutes after the workout
3) Rest (sleep)

Of course, those phases have scientific foundation but are medium
statistics which vary from person to person. Even though, in relation
to the supplementation timing, about only 90 minutes after catabolism
is interrupted by the insulin release, there is the muscular tissue
repair phase since it is broken off during workout.
In spite of this idea being polemic, I think you can even take whey
as an anti-catabolic and yet (depending on the dose taken, body weight
and training), keep complete aminoacid chains for the following phase,
of tissue restoration during workout. However, in this case, you don't
maximize the supplementation benefits with whey protein since for
immediate post-workout the intake of a carbohydrate with high-glycemic
index (high gi) is enough for interrupting catabolism and it is the
only proved/proven way to reduce the tiredness after the physical/mental
stress. This intake fortifies the resynthesis of muscular glycogen
which was depleted/reduced during the physical training/workout.
Immediately after working out, having whey without dextrose or
maltodextrin, for example, you will supply protein to be burned/burnt
in the place of your muscle and until some aminoacids (Glutamine,
Leucine, Isoleucine and Valine) be responsive for the anti-catabolic
functions, interrupting the cellular break of the muscular fibers
and helping with the repair of the tissue broken off during the
workout. Only then we would go to the second metabolic phase of
post-workout.

My point of view is simple: the protein has a specific function.
In a diet lacking carbohydrates, some aminoacids do the job of
carbohydrate through biochemical symbiosis. This metabolic process
takes longer and I think that it does not maximize the benefits of this
class of nutrients.

** It is important to understand how the whey protein is
metabolized/metabolised to understand the timing.

It is known that our body tends to increase its "degradation" rate
as the nutrient offer increases. One comparative study between WHEY
PROTEIN and CASEIN (protein which compounds about 80% of the cow milk)
by the University of London showed that, in fact, the whey protein
takes less time to finish the gastrointestinal course and supplies
a peak of amino acids faster. This sudden increase of aminocidemy,
despite leading to a greater stimulus of the proteinic synthesis,
does not alter the catabolism significantly and increases the
oxidation rate considerably. (BOIRIE et al, 1997).
Summing up, whey protein increases the anabolism but also increases
the oxidation without altering the catabolism.
So, putting those factors together, everything makes me understand
that the most adequate supplementation post-workout is:

>>> IMMEDIATELY AFTER WORKING OUT:
1) Dextrose solution in water and Glutamine (a) ;

>>> 30 MINUTES TO 45 MINUTES AFTER WORKING OUT:
2) Whey protein with Maltodextrin (b) ;

>>> BEFORE GOING TO BED (1 hour before)
3) A proteinic blend with varied protein sources with
high biological value (Albumin/egg whites in powder,
whey, supro).

(a) = During cycles with Creatine, it must be added to
this solution, prepared at home before the workout with
water so that this mixture will get homogenous/homogeneous.

(b) = Depending on the diet and on the workout time, it
is interesting to add albumin/egg whites in powder to
the supplementation with whey protein and maltodextrin
in this second phase of post-workout.

I have been reading about researches which show that the protein
"blend" is the ideal supplement for the post-workout and the
time before the rest for athletes. If the biological value of the
whey protein is high already (it contains more complete chains of
amino acids), mixing WHEY + ALBUMIN/EGG WHITES IN POWDER + SUPRO/SOY
ISOLATE PROTEIN makes an ideal proteinic supplement.
The cow milk casein generates controversies because there are many
people who are allergic to the lactose and, in these cases, it leads to
a (mild) background of eating intoxication which complicates the
proteinic metabolization/metabolisation.

In the very whey, there is whey protein concentrated, isolated by
microfiltration and by ionic exchange. This does not represent an
immediate and magical absorption as we expect but an ideal absorption
(a) for post-workout periods and also for periods before the athlete's
sleep. Thus, what is going to determine if they will take whey before
sleeping is just their financial availability ($$$).

(a) = Here, "ideal" represents the absorption in phases of the various
amino acid chains. In the case of the whey, these phases are more
intense and faster than in the digestion process and metabolization/
metabolisation of other protein classes. There are people who will say
the physiological answer to the whey protein is a two-way road which
increases the anabolism but also increases the oxidation without
altering the catabolism. One way or another, it is important to
explain the metabolic demands of post-workout...

1) UP TO 45 MINUTES AFTER THE WORKOUT:
It's very important to ingest high-glycemic index carbohydrate
(HIGH GI) as DEXTROSE or MALTODEXTRIN and FAST-ABSORPTION AMINO ACIDS
with a great concentration of BCAA's up to 45 minutes after working
out. The carbohydrates have the function of stimulating the insulin
release, interrupting the catabolism; the BCAA's prevent catabolism
of the dehydrated muscular mass.

2) 90 MINUTES AFTER THE WORKOUT:
The muscular tissue reparation phase begins because the muscular
tissue is broken off during the workout. In this time, it occurs the
anabolic overcompensation, i.e./that is, the proteinic synthesis above
the previous stocks to bear greater and greater loads of effort.
There are people who think that great part of the muscular mass
increment occurs right after working out. This has no foundation since
the muscular metabolism phase in which this culminates happens
during the sleep.
It is interesting the ingestion of fast, medium and slow-absorption
amino acids chains before the athlete goes to bed because there is no
way people can know how many hours of sleep they will have till they
arrive in the REM (Rapid Eye Movements) phase of sleep. This phase is
indicated by studies as being the absolute peak of muscular anabolism.

JUST TO CLEAR SOMETHING:
Only after 300 minutes from the ingestion of whey protein, the
protein levels in the blood come back to their adjoining bases.

This means that if you take Whey before going to bed and arrive in
the REM (Rapid Eye Movements) phase of sleep during the next 4 hours,
what is very likely, you will still have enough whey protein in the
bloodstream to feed the muscular mass increment. Simple like that!!!
It is certain that this process is optimized if the whey protein
is united to the albumin/egg whites powder, for example.
Thus, a slower-absorption protein would be of great value during the
last four hours of sleep (Having in mind that the medium time of
sleep would be 8 hours per day).

** whey = fast-absorption protein
albumin = slow-absorption protein **

There are people who will say that the bodybuilders need more hours of
sleep than everyone else, exactly because of those intercellular
metabolism nuances...
---------------------->>

Many people ingest only Albumin 1 hour before sleeping without Whey
due to the costs since Whey is an important post-workout supplement
as well and taking it before sleeping would increase the expenses.
That's it...I hope those texts have been a great help for some of you...

[ironlung]

save yourself some money on the malto.. and hell on the rest of your supplements as well, just use a juice like juicy juice and 40g of whey. You want a fast absorbtion PWO meal, then an hour or two later get some complex carbs like brown rice, yams, etc., Carbs being the most critical factor for post workout. I know there is a big anti-carb klan out there nowaday's, it's quite pathetic actually for those seeking knowledge.

No fat post work out because fat will slow down your digestion, you want something to flash or spike your GI response at this time. Fat consumption would be better for your 5th or 6th meal of the day.

Glutamine is a waste during bulking, it is for sparing muscle while restricting calories.