Can Rene Toney (woman) participate in men's competition?

[Contract Killer]

i know its off topic, but who is she

Betty Pariso mother of 3, full time business woman, still has time for cardio and training twice a day and promotes her own show, she's a Godess.

[bigasssnowman]

she could bring back aesthetics to male bodybuilding. she could be the next frank zane. womens bodybuilding is like any other womens sport. we want to see the best. men. not 2nd best. but hey if the girls can compete with the boys and hold there own that would be scary but neat.

[Mortis]

still has time for cardio and training twice a day and

grossly abusing steroids until she looks like a neanderthal that got dipped in castor oil and spray painted with orange varnish.

[Gaffigan]

I am very jealous and envious of these women's physiques. They are some jacked individuals, and there's no hiding that! Props to them for building so much muscle ... I'm just glad that I have a sense of REALITY here and have NO desire to use steroids whatsoever, due to the extreme medical problems that can occur upon usage. When it's "all said and done" with this topic, I have NO disrespect or whatnot for female BodyBuilders.

This is in response to "rampagefc77" ...

[Hardkkore]

Hmm... I really don't see what the big deal is. She should go for it and pursue whatever her dreams are as long as they don't have a direct negative impact on society. I mean, I really don't see why some people are disgusted with seeing mucle chiks. U like corvettes, then good for you; Joe likes his lamborghinis, good for him. No need for the bashing fellowz


Live Well guyz!

[Doc Iron]

None of the points that people have made in this thread are incompatible. As I see it, basically everything that has been said is true:

1) Rene deserves respect for developing the incredible muscularity that she has developed. It's more than most of us, male or female, have been able to accomplish.

2) Physiologically, "she" is far more male than female at this point.

3) A woman that makes herself physiologically appear to be a very muscular man (or a man with a very soft feminine body for that matter) is very far removed from most people's view of "beautiful" (or handsome). Therefore, to most folks, Rene looks "ugly".

4) Because bodybuilding is really about aesthetic beauty, and not primarily about muscle mass or strength, Rene will probably never do very well in mainstream bodybuilding competitions. This isn't unique to her, it's the same reason that Marcus Ruhl doesn't do all that well in competition.

5) If Rene is happy being a "mass monster" and has worked to accomplish this mindful of the fact that she will never fit the popular ideal of beauty (or even the aesthetic ideal of the female bodybuilder) ... all the power to her! She has the courage to be an original.

[stealth_swimmer]

Women should compete with men, on the same stage.

You're a moron. Sorry I normally don't go with name-calling. But there's no other explanation for you making that statement. If anyone can find one RATIONAL explanation then shoot it my way.

The current bodybuilding shows do very poorly and are a financial drain on the IFBB, not to mention an embarrassment for the girls themselves when they expect a serious turnout.

I bet you didn't even go to the Ms. O in 2005 when it was held at the expo. I was there and I heard EVERYONE complaining about how it was not held on the same stage as the Mr. Olympia. I didn't hear any other negative feedback. The only thing that bothered people was that the females had to compete on a separate stage. So what are you talking about?
In the past few years I think it's been improving. In 2005 the big thing the fans were not happy about was that some of them were not able to see the women's prejudging because it was held in a different place. Many people showed up at the finals though at the expo. Not only was the seating area filled up, there were people outside of the area with cameras/video cameras and/or just standing there watching even if they didn't have the best seats and nobody was complaining. Of course you'd know that if you ever attended. Just sayin...

That's why they have to resort acts like this to keep people in their seats:

I find that to seem like a humorous routine. Betty Pariso is about 50 years old and still makes improvements. I think she's the oldest IFBB pro femal bodybuilder. Not only that, but many of the female bodybuilding routines are MUCH more entertaining than the men's. I ain't saying all of them, but many of them are.

[747]

I see there are more cons than pros to this. If a Femal has more Testoserone than estrogen then shes more of a man and vice versa. I dont see a problem with her in female bodybuilding. Everyone is shotting for mass. Just look at Jay and Ronnie. Its bound to carry of to the Ms. O soon enough. People want to see freaky people. It plays right into there hands.
Yeah Prop to her for getting that body. Yeah that real hard work and she loves it, so let her have it. Chances are she will never EVER compete with the men. Theres the NBA and the WNBA! point proven.

[stealth_swimmer]

Everyone is shotting for mass. Just look at Jay and Ronnie. Its bound to carry of to the Ms. O soon enough.

Not really. If you follow the sport then you'd see that there are some women who have some bodyparts bigger than Iris Kyle but it ends up throwing their symmetry off. Kim Perez is a good example of a female who's arms are too big and actually detract from her physique. Dayana Cadeau came into the Arnold bigger than usual, and less conditioned, and got relegated to 6th place from being 2nd place all last year at the Arnold and at the Ms O. I honestly liked the slightly softer look but she was too big.
Yaxeni Oriquen-Garcia is a good example of managing to be big but looking decent. She just has the problem of coming in too soft. I don't wanna see her overconditioned like the 2005 rendition of Iris Kyle, but just slightly harder than she has been at her last two competitions and I think she can win the O again. Just enough to where the abs come in a little clearer. She doesn't need to be any bigger though. I don't think any of the competitors are trying to gain huge leaps in size.

[Mortis]

You're a moron.

I loved that member's photos thread where you posted your fat ugly ass and people called you ****phile.

You do look goddamn creepy. What are you doing commenting about bodybuilding when your BLI (body lard index) is like 35%?

Get the f*ck off my Internet, John Karr jr.

[747]

Mortis you got something against fat people.
I have a high bf% to you know. You gonna talk me to me to!

[stealth_swimmer]

I loved that member's photos thread where you posted your fat ugly ass and people called you ****phile.

You do look goddamn creepy. What are you doing commenting about bodybuilding when your BLI (body lard index) is like 35%?

Get the f*ck off my Internet, John Karr jr.

I don't remember ever being called a ****phile and I don't think I've ever given reason to be called one.

Yeah I'm fat, what's your point? I'm still a fan of the sport of bodybuilding. I don't think anyone here is perfectly satisfied with themselves, otherwise they wouldn't be into bodybuilding. Funny how you start mudslinging but have no rational thought-out rebuttals for what I posted earlier.

[Guardian]

Most women have a harder time attaining the same superb conditioning, most also do not have as good of V tapers. It also seems for whatever reason that women dont have as much msucle peak.

[hehehaha]

You guys are off topic. Read the thread title again.

[hehehaha]

No body seems to be serious.

The real question is that is rene toney strong enough to compete against men?

[747]

In equality yes, but by our standards no.

[Mortis]

I don't remember ever being called a ****phile and I don't think I've ever given reason to be called one.

Yeah I'm fat, what's your point? I'm still a fan of the sport of bodybuilding. I don't think anyone here is perfectly satisfied with themselves, otherwise they wouldn't be into bodybuilding. Funny how you start mudslinging but have no rational thought-out rebuttals for what I posted earlier.

No, you started it by calling me a 'moron' for no reason.

You're a hypocrite, you're in denial about your unsuitability for bodybuilding, and you were called a **** in your picture thread. Unless you deleted it, the picture post is still there somewhere, not that I'll go and dig it up just for this thread.

Anyway, since you added nothing worth replying to after this, I won't bother. Smash the doughnut crumbs out your keyboard all you like in your angry reply, it won't get read.

[sixzebra]

dude....why did you post a pic of Jerome Ferguson?

lol

edit: Rene still deserves respect for the mere fact that she without a doubt worked her ass off to look the way she does, regardless of the level of testosterone. Its not for me, but I still respect hard work, regardless.

[paoloex19]

sure he measurement are good but i think she would be dwarfed on stage you have to remember that generally a womans bone structure is alot smaller to begin with sure her arms are 20'' but her shoulders would be pretty narrow to begin with. It just a matter of her clavicles being too small when was the last time you saw a woman with shoulders as wide as you average bodybuilder.

[John Prophet]

I take it back..she doesnt look like Jerome F.....she is actually a dead ringer for Kai Greene


actually, her and Rodney St Cloud could probably be an interesting combination.....for what though, Im not sure

[Titania]

None of the points that people have made in this thread are incompatible. As I see it, basically everything that has been said is true:

1) Rene deserves respect for developing the incredible muscularity that she has developed. It's more than most of us, male or female, have been able to accomplish.

2) Physiologically, "she" is far more male than female at this point.

3) A woman that makes herself physiologically appear to be a very muscular man (or a man with a very soft feminine body for that matter) is very far removed from most people's view of "beautiful" (or handsome). Therefore, to most folks, Rene looks "ugly".

4) Because bodybuilding is really about aesthetic beauty, and not primarily about muscle mass or strength, Rene will probably never do very well in mainstream bodybuilding competitions. This isn't unique to her, it's the same reason that Marcus Ruhl doesn't do all that well in competition.

5) If Rene is happy being a "mass monster" and has worked to accomplish this mindful of the fact that she will never fit the popular ideal of beauty (or even the aesthetic ideal of the female bodybuilder) ... all the power to her! She has the courage to be an original.

The last paragraph pretty much sums up exactly why Renne has gone to the level she has. She does not care in the slightest what the majority think and knows full well that pretty much all of the judges will mark her down in female comps. That is why she doesn't compete much. She is an IFBB Pro too.

lol

edit: Rene still deserves respect for the mere fact that she without a doubt worked her ass off to look the way she does, regardless of the level of testosterone. Its not for me, but I still respect hard work, regardless.

Bump to that too sixzebra

[Mortis]

The last paragraph pretty much sums up exactly why Renne has gone to the level she has. She does not care in the slightest what the majority think and knows full well that pretty much all of the judges will mark her down in female comps. That is why she doesn't compete much. She is an IFBB Pro too.

Bump to that too sixzebra

You're much better looking.

In the end, the face matters.

[cockmcocks]

thats wat i thought too..hahaha

[John Prophet]

Lora Ottenad looks hot when she wants to

http://www.graphicmuscle.com/index.c...petitorID=2937

her last contest wasnt so great but she looked hot when she won her pro card at the NPC nats

[John Prophet]

yummy

[stealth_swimmer]

No, you started it by calling me a 'moron' for no reason.

It was for many reasons, but the main one was that ignorant comments make me upset...
And despite how I may look, you STILL have yet to make a reasonable argument against my response. That coupled with your trollish remarks about my body. Uh...I KNOW I don't look that great. That's why I took up bodybuilding in the first place!

Anyways, you are outright making BS up. Hopefully you get exposed for all to see it. Here's my pic thread. A whole bunch of guys telling me to cut. Nobody's calling me a ****, so I don't know what you're talking about.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ht=stealth+cut

[Titania]

You're much better looking.

In the end, the face matters.

thats wat i thought too..hahaha

Aww..thanks guys
I won't tell Renne you said that though!! LOL

[hehehaha]

Aww..thanks guys
I won't tell Renne you said that though!! LOL

Do you take steriods?

[Titania]

Do you take steriods?

I am often asked that here and each time I take it as a compliment. No, I don't. In actual fact, my testosterone levels are below the normal female range and have been for some time. I am on HRT (Oestrogen and progesterone) because I had a hysterectomy a few years ago. I have regular blood tests so I know exactly where my hormone levels are most of the time.
The low test levels have not made any impact into my training though

[hehehaha]

I am often asked that here and each time I take it as a compliment. No, I don't. In actual fact, my testosterone levels are below the normal female range and have been for some time. I am on HRT (Oestrogen and progesterone) because I had a hysterectomy a few years ago. I have regular blood tests so I know exactly where my hormone levels are most of the time.
The low test levels have not made any impact into my training though

Do you think Renne Toney take steroids? I am pretty sure she does. Because if it was a natural bodybuilding (drug-free), then we see much gap between women and men bodybuilding.