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  1. #1
    Registered User paradox_nz's Avatar
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    Cool protein digestive enzymes

    i just learned today form a local health shop about PDEs which i never heard about it before since my body cant except whey or WPI he suggested that this my help me to reduce my gas and diarrhea just wondering if any one here have used this stuff .
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  2. #2
    Registered User Sennor's Avatar
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    Enzymes like Proteases can help the breakdown and digestion and absorbption of protiens especially when supplementing in large amount, as some people do get digestive uncomfortabilities, If you personally are having a problem digesting, it could always be worth a look, there are also some diet books you might find interesting on enzyme nutrition, as foods such as Papaya and Pineapple contain Papin and Bromalean which are enzymes that help digest protein, lots of people feel its beneficial to eat foods like these with certain meals too to aid digestion.
    (unofortunatly i cant think of any books off top of my head - just search for enzyme nutrition or similar)
    hope that helps a little
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  3. #3
    Registered User hrlykid83's Avatar
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    GNC sells the Papaya Enzymes which i like... Helps alot...
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  4. #4
    I scare people. CanuckTank's Avatar
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    I take a probiotic enzyme pill every day and what a difference in my digestive system.

    More regular, more efficient use of food, less bloating and no gas.
    Like Brutis...you can do dis.
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  5. #5
    Captain N. Smurg's Avatar
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    Any decent whey will already have them in it (100% ON Whey)... Sometimes I feel like I advertise for them, but seriously, I love their whey.
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  6. #6
    I scare people. CanuckTank's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Smurg View Post
    Any decent whey will already have them in it (100% ON Whey)... Sometimes I feel like I advertise for them, but seriously, I love their whey.
    No harm is spreading the truth.
    Like Brutis...you can do dis.
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  7. #7
    Registered User paradox_nz's Avatar
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    thanks guys , but any of these enzymes sold in this website store .
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    game over DRP7's Avatar
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    first of all, you most probably may have a lactose intolerance. this means that you will need to strictly look for whey protein isolates (WPI) and to avoid whey concentrates (WPC). this alone should suficiently help you.

    if you also have a problem with protein digestion per se, you should simply take whey in smaller doses. e.g. start with ONE teaspoon (appr. 5 g) of whey, mix it in water and drink it. do it 3-4 times per day for at least 3 days. If everything goes fine, then incease the dose to 3 x 7.5g/d for a few days, then to 3 x 10 g/d etc. by that you can assess your protein-digestion limits.

    probiotics are also very beneficial!
    The inclusion of digestive enzymes in popular proteins powders (e.g. ON 100%) is crap and a waste of money because stomach acid will destroy the very ost part of the inculded enzymes. If you are serious about supplementing digestive enzymes, then you need a product that delivers enetric coating in order to protect the enzymes from stomach acid.
    IN the case you also have low levels of stomach juice / stomach acid, you could also supplement with Betain and / or Pepsin.
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  9. #9
    Grindin' it out! lionelxxl's Avatar
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    enzymes that don't get degraded

    Originally Posted by Dr.P View Post
    The inclusion of digestive enzymes in popular proteins powders (e.g. ON 100%) is crap and a waste of money because stomach acid will destroy the very ost part of the inculded enzymes. If you are serious about supplementing digestive enzymes, then you need a product that delivers enetric coating in order to protect the enzymes from stomach acid.
    IN the case you also have low levels of stomach juice / stomach acid, you could also supplement with Betain and / or Pepsin.
    Dr. P, if what you're saying is true, doesn't this make the more popular enzyme products out there like NOW super enzymes and MRM's digest all useless?

    Do enzyme products WITHOUT enteric coating render them not useful?

    What about products like papain/bromelain that may come in the normal tablet forms.. no good too?

    Interested to know where you're coming from.
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  10. #10
    Registered User paradox_nz's Avatar
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    thanks dr. P i will try the WPI and hopefully it will work
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  11. #11
    game over DRP7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lionelxxl View Post
    Dr. P, if what you're saying is true, doesn't this make the more popular enzyme products out there like NOW super enzymes and MRM's digest all useless?
    in the stomach you have a very acidic pH (pH of around 1-2). since most proteins get denaturated in such acidic environments, and enzymes = proteins, it is not too far away to assume that most of the enzymes will get denturated. denaturation means a significant alteration of the structure / folding of the protein. denaturation usually results in a loss of functionality.

    so, yes, it doesn'T matter how "popular" one brand is. (popularity does not protect from uselessness). If the ph-sensitive enzymes are not protected by enteric coating, they will get denaturated. pharmaceutical drugs for people with pancreatic insufficiency (enzyme drugs) are all enterically coated and liberate the enzymes only when a specific ph has been reached (e.g. in the duodenum).
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  12. #12
    Grindin' it out! lionelxxl's Avatar
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    interesting

    Originally Posted by Dr.P View Post
    in the stomach you have a very acidic pH (pH of around 1-2). since most proteins get denaturated in such acidic environments, and enzymes = proteins, it is not too far away to assume that most of the enzymes will get denturated. denaturation means a significant alteration of the structure / folding of the protein. denaturation usually results in a loss of functionality.

    so, yes, it doesn'T matter how "popular" one brand is. (popularity does not protect from uselessness). If the ph-sensitive enzymes are not protected by enteric coating, they will get denaturated. pharmaceutical drugs for people with pancreatic insufficiency (enzyme drugs) are all enterically coated and liberate the enzymes only when a specific ph has been reached (e.g. in the duodenum).
    Thanks for the info. In your opinion, if one has to use an enzyme, which one would you recommend?

    Oh yeah, would enzymes from plants make a difference? Studies have shown them to be much more stable compared to animal enzymes in the stomach.
    Last edited by lionelxxl; 04-04-2007 at 06:17 AM.
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  13. #13
    game over DRP7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lionelxxl View Post
    Thanks for the info. In your opinion, if one has to use an enzyme, which one would you recommend?

    it depends on your specific needs:

    if you have problems with stomach juice (pH is too high or your stomach cannot produce enough acids) then you need pepsin / betain

    if you are lactose-intolerant, then you need lactase, and only lactase. any further addition would be pure waste of money.

    if you have insufficient excretion of pancreatic enzymes then supplement those (pancreatin). papain / bromelain are an alternative but IMHO they are not sufficient.

    with exception of pepsin, all other enzymes need enteric coating.
    If you want to be sure to get something that is worth its money then go to your local pharmacy and ask for an appropriate product.


    normally, healthy people (with exception of lactase in those with lacotse intolerance, which occurs quite often) do not need to supplement digestive enzymes. only people with chronic gastritis or pancreatic insufficiency may take pancreatic enzymes.

    If you have problems with digestion, then try to optimise / adapt your diet (smaller meals) and take a good probiotic. try to find out which special foods / ingredeints possibly cause problems and try to leave them out.
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  14. #14
    Grindin' it out! lionelxxl's Avatar
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    here's why i started supplementing with digestive enzymes

    I didn't think they were necessary initially too but these posts here by TROUBLE set me thinking.. http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/sh...=super+enzymes
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  15. #15
    Registered User Dudefood's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DRP7 View Post
    it depends on your specific needs:

    if you have problems with stomach juice (pH is too high or your stomach cannot produce enough acids) then you need pepsin / betain

    if you are lactose-intolerant, then you need lactase, and only lactase. any further addition would be pure waste of money.

    if you have insufficient excretion of pancreatic enzymes then supplement those (pancreatin). papain / bromelain are an alternative but IMHO they are not sufficient.

    with exception of pepsin, all other enzymes need enteric coating.
    If you want to be sure to get something that is worth its money then go to your local pharmacy and ask for an appropriate product.


    normally, healthy people (with exception of lactase in those with lacotse intolerance, which occurs quite often) do not need to supplement digestive enzymes. only people with chronic gastritis or pancreatic insufficiency may take pancreatic enzymes.

    If you have problems with digestion, then try to optimise / adapt your diet (smaller meals) and take a good probiotic. try to find out which special foods / ingredeints possibly cause problems and try to leave them out.
    Why is there no need for healthy people to take digestive enzymes? They are increasing protein synthesis and you will get much better absorbtion of all your foods. I mean if you are a bodybuilder eating 5-6 meals a day + a ****load of protein I think its a good supplement to keep you less bloated.
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    Originally Posted by Dudefood View Post
    Why is there no need for healthy people to take digestive enzymes? They are increasing protein synthesis and you will get much better absorbtion of all your foods. I mean if you are a bodybuilder eating 5-6 meals a day + a ****load of protein I think its a good supplement to keep you less bloated.
    I agree to a certain extent,however bromelain has so many other health benefits.
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  17. #17
    ٩(●̮̮̃̃)۶ ٩(●̮̮̃̃)۶ iForce Dave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DRP7 View Post
    first of all, you most probably may have a lactose intolerance. this means that you will need to strictly look for whey protein isolates (WPI) and to avoid whey concentrates (WPC). this alone should suficiently help you.

    if you also have a problem with protein digestion per se, you should simply take whey in smaller doses. e.g. start with ONE teaspoon (appr. 5 g) of whey, mix it in water and drink it. do it 3-4 times per day for at least 3 days. If everything goes fine, then incease the dose to 3 x 7.5g/d for a few days, then to 3 x 10 g/d etc. by that you can assess your protein-digestion limits.

    probiotics are also very beneficial!
    The inclusion of digestive enzymes in popular proteins powders (e.g. ON 100%) is crap and a waste of money because stomach acid will destroy the very ost part of the inculded enzymes. If you are serious about supplementing digestive enzymes, then you need a product that delivers enetric coating in order to protect the enzymes from stomach acid.
    IN the case you also have low levels of stomach juice / stomach acid, you could also supplement with Betain and / or Pepsin.

    DRP What products would you reccommend then? Just to clarify it sounds like you ar saying:

    Probiotics
    Betaine

    How about Hydrochloric Acid? I have heard this is very beneficial.

    Are there any enteric coated digestive enzymes that you reccommend?
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  18. #18
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    old thread is old
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by iForce Dave View Post
    How about Hydrochloric Acid? I have heard this is very beneficial.
    LOL WUT!?

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    ٩(●̮̮̃̃)۶ ٩(●̮̮̃̃)۶ iForce Dave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chasinSKURT View Post
    LOL WUT!?

    oops hydroxycitric acid lol typo
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    Originally Posted by iForce Dave View Post
    oops hydroxycitric acid lol typo
    Why would you think hydroxycitric acid would be benefical?
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    ٩(●̮̮̃̃)۶ ٩(●̮̮̃̃)۶ iForce Dave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by neuron View Post
    Why would you think hydroxycitric acid would be benefical?

    I dont, I read about it, ill try to find the information I saw. Anyhow its supposed to help support digestion and fatty acid breakdown of foods.

    EDIT I cant find it... I know I read about it on an obscure board. Im just trying to put together a supplement plan to help with digestion, gas, and getting the most out of the food im eating.

    I have noticed that when im taking probiotic and digestive enzymes my gas and bloating goes down a lot so I feel like SOMETHING hasd to be working.

    I just want to see what my options are. It seems like the best things are:

    Betaine, papain, bromelain, probiotic acidophilus, ALA, hydroxycitric Acid, and a protease/amylase/lipase enzyme
    Last edited by iForce Dave; 04-19-2010 at 07:57 AM.
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    Originally Posted by iForce Dave View Post
    I dont, I read about it, ill try to find the information I saw. Anyhow its supposed to help support digestion and gut health.
    Hydroxycitric acid is a "false" anapleurotic substrate for the CAC cycle.

    In theory, it was proposed to inhibit the enzyme citrate synthase, thereby inhibiting fat synthesis.

    In humans, it was demonstrated to marginally reduce fat accumulation, while also causing testicular toxicity and atrophy.

    http://www.glykon.com/page7/page7.html
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    ٩(●̮̮̃̃)۶ ٩(●̮̮̃̃)۶ iForce Dave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by neuron View Post
    Hydroxycitric acid is a "false" anapleurotic substrate for the CAC cycle.

    In theory, it was proposed to inhibit the enzyme citrate synthase, thereby inhibiting fat synthesis.

    In humans, it was demonstrated to marginally reduce fat accumulation, while also causing testicular toxicity and atrophy.

    http://www.glykon.com/page7/page7.html
    wow, glad I asked! What about the other supps I mentioned after the edit?

    I just need something to help with the gas, bloating, and err "going #2"

    everytime I start my offseason after contest dieting, the amount of food i have to consume is so high that I often feel sick to my stomach
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