question about hell (im christian)

[Agnostic]

maybe its the impression you get. Im just leading people to the truth. And i dont use "your going to hell if you dont believe what i believe"

so again, you guys can keep saying what you want.

The truth huh?

Just like jews are leading people to the "real" truth?

Just like hindus are leading people to the "real" truth?

Just like muslimes are leading people to the "real" truth?

...

side fun little note: I think its funny that if you examine the brain or a person who is praying reguradless of faith, the moment they say the "feel" gods presence, the exact same part of the brain lights up...it is also the same spot when people meditate....

[Agnostic]

"Anyone who only acts moral because the bible tells them to, they are not moral, but pathetic."

sounds like a contradiction, or you just cant spit it out right.


"Alas, you are a christian idiot and you do not realize that the original jewish bible says that everyone will actually go to heaven and that the longest you spend in hell is basically 1 year."

another contradiction? if everyone is going to heaven, then how can you go to hell to? despite the years.

Hmm so your morals are calling others idiots?

What is immoral about telling someone they are an idiot?

You questions shows any astounding lack or logic, reasoning and reading ability. Any more conversation would be like talking to a retard with down syndrome.

[timbo81]

"The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world." THERE is says the world, not just "many" (many could also mean "all").

If God's will is done, then all will be saved. And there's numerous verses that support universal salvation, in addition to hell not existing, etc.

"the world" is referred to those who believe in that context,

[tdcook]

smj5351.

If I remember right, you said you were JW correct?

You know your stuff. You have definately memorized all the pamphlets your elders/assembly have given to you through the years, and you seem to have put a lot of thought into it.

The thing about religion though is you always have to keep an open mind. If you don't, you'll wind up driving yourself crazy as to trying to understand why all the "imbeciles" don't see this "enlightenment" you do.

It doesn't make any sense right? I mean, it's so simple to you, yet so many people refuse to accept your beliefs.

Well, that's how it goes.

[Lager1]

"the world" is referred to those who believe in that context,

LMFAO! You're wrong, and you can't prove it. You can believe whatever you want, though. I know I can't un-brainwash some people.

[HardcoreFitness]

Yea, and you're SOOOO mature. All you ever do is degrade the argument into...THIS. Into a name calling fest.

At least before you entered the thread we were SOMEWHAT arguing about the subject. You have NEVER, I repeat, NEVER tried to debate me. You've only crumbled in fear and resorted to personal attacks. I think it's time for YOU to grow up, little guy.

never called you a name or an insult, you seem to have me confused w/ you, and thats a huge insult, I truely feel bad for you and you will be in my prayers

[Lager1]

smj5351.

If I remember right, you said you were JW correct?

You know your stuff. You have definately memorized all the pamphlets your elders/assembly have given to you through the years, and you seem to have put a lot of thought into it.

The thing about religion though is you always have to keep an open mind. If you don't, you'll wind up driving yourself crazy as to trying to understand why all the "imbeciles" don't see this "enlightenment" you do.

It doesn't make any sense right? I mean, it's so simple to you, yet so many people refuse to accept your beliefs.

Well, that's how it goes.

No, I'm not a JW.

But yes, I have an open mind. I used to believe in the **** HardcoreFitness and Timbo81 believe in, but I wasn't very into it, because none of it made any sense whatsoever and it was all wrong. Luckily I was smart enough and open-minded enough to know the truth when I saw it.

And I am coming to realize more why people reject these things. It's not always because they are "stupid" or "imbecilic". It's mostly because they are afraid.

They are afraid of what these things might mean, if I am right. They cling to their beliefs because they are all they've ever known, and it's what gets them through life. They think what I am "preaching" won't give them the same kind of satisfaction. Some of them probably think I am possessed by a demon or something.

But I have reached some people, I have gotten some people to see a DIFFERENT side of christianity, I've gotten people to question the things that truly don't make sense. All the threads and all the verses I've posted are worth it.

[Lager1]

never called you a name or an insult, you seem to have me confused w/ you, and thats a huge insult, I truely feel bad for you and you will be in my prayers

Now you revert to the holy "loving christian who prays for everyone". Hypocrite. I reject your worthless hypocritical prayers. And I'M not the one who needs pity...YOU do.

[timbo81]

so smj hypothetically if christianity isn't working for me can I swap religions.

I mean everyone is saved right?

So God won't mind if I make up my own god and worship that instead. I can totally ignore the first commandment, but it's cool isn't it I'll still go to heaven.

I have a mosque closer to me than a church, maybe I should go worship islam hmmmmmm

[HardcoreFitness]

Now you revert to the holy "loving christian who prays for everyone". Hypocrite. I reject your worthless hypocritical prayers. And I'M not the one who needs pity...YOU do.

are you aware of what the words you use actually mean? you obviously do not know what hypocryte means so I suggest you study a dictionary before you keep trying to use 3+ sylable ... you ignorance is showing everyone your inteligence( or lack there of)

[HardcoreFitness]

so smj hypothetically if christianity isn't working for me can I swap religions.

I mean everyone is saved right?

So God won't mind if I make up my own god and worship that instead. I can totally ignore the first commandment, but it's cool isn't it I'll still go to heaven.

I have a mosque closer to me than a church, maybe I should go worship islam hmmmmmm

now your getting his teaching... basicly do whatever you want b/c God loves when you take his son's murder on the cross forgranted! Thats all in the bible right SMJ, and if not im sure you can just write it in huh?

[RelentlessChaos]

so smj hypothetically if christianity isn't working for me can I swap religions.

I mean everyone is saved right?

So God won't mind if I make up my own god and worship that instead. I can totally ignore the first commandment, but it's cool isn't it I'll still go to heaven.

I have a mosque closer to me than a church, maybe I should go worship islam hmmmmmm

why dont we have orgies, sex, drink, and swear since its the "cool lifestyle"
you know, well be saved right?

[Lager1]

are you aware of what the words you use actually mean? you obviously do not know what hypocryte means so I suggest you study a dictionary before you keep trying to use 3+ sylable ... you ignorance is showing everyone your inteligence( or lack there of)

Well, apparently you don't know what "hypocrite" means. Maybe you should look that up, there, little guy. Look at your posts, consider the word "hypocrite" and put two and two together.

[RelentlessChaos]

basically we all just follow some cult, or some stupid fairy tail. Weve all been lead astray. WHEN i get my same beliefs from the bible he does.(smj)

sooo basically we both would be believeing a fairy tail, OR i would be right. Because im not just following beliefs of others. Im reading the bible, and finding it out for myself.

So anyone who says im just following everyone and believing this "fairy tail" needs to think again.

[Thomas.of.Hunter]

I know a LOT more about the Bible than you do. It doesn't matter how I am classified according to me beliefs, I have more knowledge than you.

Go back and read the additions to this post....your spirit is not your soul. Your spirit is your life force.

just so you know... you can know more about the Bible than anyone in the world...but that won't get you into heaven..James 2:26 Anyone who doesn't breathe is dead, and faith that doesn't do anything is just as dead!

[Lager1]

why dont we have orgies, sex, drink, and swear since its the "cool lifestyle"
you know, well be saved right?

now your getting his teaching... basicly do whatever you want b/c God loves when you take his son's murder on the cross forgranted! Thats all in the bible right SMJ, and if not im sure you can just write it in huh?

See, this proves how corrupt and twisted you people are! The ONLY thing keeping you from killing people and having "orgies, sex, drinking, and swearing". Do you realize how brainwashed you are? You don't, do you?

Let me try to explain it to you as I would to a child: You believe that without hell, there is NO reason to follow God's commandments. Your morality would go out the window without hell. Try to understand how evil this is. I wish I could explain it better, but I've never had to explain this to someone.

You've proven to me that the only thing keeping you from sinning is not God's commandments, not a sense of morality, not trying to keep harm from people, etc, but an eternal fire chamber. I would laugh, but I'm stunned and saddened.

[timbo81]

omg wow I am so gonna hook up with lots of hot chicks now, smj you saved me.

I mean the Bible says wait till marriage for sex but it's cool why I should I follow it, everyone is saved, let's party dudes we can act how we want.

I'm gonna go snort a line of coke now.

[Lager1]

omg wow I am so gonna hook up with lots of hot chicks now, smj you saved me.

I mean the Bible says wait till marriage for sex but it's cool why I should I follow it, everyone is saved, let's party dudes we can act how we want.

I'm gonna go snort a line of coke now.

See the post above this one. Wow...I really am stunned. My respect for all of you has dropped from 0 out of 10 to -10 out of 10.

[timbo81]

See the post above this one. Wow...I really am stunned. My respect for all of you has dropped from 0 out of 10 to -10 out of 10.

but why man.

I mean there is a girl I really like at work, why should I wait till I'm married for teh sex.

Plenty of other people are having sex outside of marriage, it's natural right.

Why should I be punished

I'm saved though remember, I can be a bit more liberal now

[CRyan64]

omg wow I am so gonna hook up with lots of hot chicks now, smj you saved me.

I mean the Bible says wait till marriage for sex but it's cool why I should I follow it, everyone is saved, let's party dudes we can act how we want.

I'm gonna go snort a line of coke now.

Hmm, i don't believe in hell and I do not (and do not want to):

Steal
Kill
Cheat
Rape
Do hard drugs
Etc.

[HardcoreFitness]

See, this proves how corrupt and twisted you people are! The ONLY thing keeping you from killing people and having "orgies, sex, drinking, and swearing". Do you realize how brainwashed you are? You don't, do you?

Let me try to explain it to you as I would to a child: You believe that without hell, there is NO reason to follow God's commandments. Your morality would go out the window without hell. Try to understand how evil this is. I wish I could explain it better, but I've never had to explain this to someone.

You've proven to me that the only thing keeping you from sinning is not God's commandments, not a sense of morality, not trying to keep harm from people, etc, but an eternal fire chamber. I would laugh, but I'm stunned and saddened.

please continue to put more words in our mouths, your just so acurate at it. Do you have ESP?

[Lager1]

Hmm, i don't believe in hell and I do not (and do not want to):

Steal
Kill
Cheat
Rape
Do hard drugs
Etc.

Wow...just wow. These people keep amazing me, day after day (and not in a good way). They have ALL expressed that the sole reason they fail to kill, rape, do coke, etc, is because the are afraid of hell.

Not because they want to obey God, not because they have an innate sense of morality, not because they don't desire harm to come upon others, but because of a human construct MEANT for this purpose! AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA.

And so, CRyan64, you see what the meaning of "hell" is.

Well, I'm really tired. Tired of this bull**** , and tired physically/mentally. Good night everyone.

[Thomas.of.Hunter]

Matthew 25:46

"And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Everlasting fire ? Matthew 25:41
"And then He will say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'"

"The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practise lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matt 13:41)


"The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matt 13:49-50)



Lake of fire ? Revelation 20:15


And anyone not found in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Fire and brimstone ? Revelation 14:10


If anyone worships the beast ... he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Unquenchable fire ? Matthew 3:12


"His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Devouring fire ? Isaiah 33:14
The sinners in Zion are afraid;
Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites:
"Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?
Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"


Devils are confined there until the judgment day ? 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6


For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment ...


And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day.


Body suffers there ? Matthew 5:29, 10:28
"If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell." (Matt 5:29)

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him Who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matt 10:28)

Soul suffers there ? Matthew 10:28
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him Who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Try to keep others from it ? Proverbs 23:14, Jude 23


Do not withhold correction from a child,
For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.
You shall beat him with a rod,
And deliver his soul from hell. (Prov 23:13-14)

[tdcook]

Hmm, i don't believe in hell and I do not (and do not want to):

Steal
Kill
Cheat
Rape
Do hard drugs
Etc.

You've got it all wrong!!! Dammit!!!


It's "I believe in death, destruction, chaos, filth, and greed"

[Thomas.of.Hunter]

Associating with evil leads to it ? Proverbs 5:5, 9:18


An immoral woman ... her feet go down to death,
Her steps lay hold of hell. (Prov 5:5)


But he [who turns aside to the shameless woman]
does not know that the dead are there,
That her guests are in the depths of hell. (Prov 9:18)


Devil and all his angels will be cast into it ? Revelation 19:20, 20:10


The beast and the false prophet were cast alive into the lake of fire, burning with brimstone. (Rev 19:20)


The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev 20:10)


Its powers cannot stand against the Church ? Matthew 16:18
"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."

[HardcoreFitness]

Just incase some of you are not familiar with SMJ and his cult, he goes around to different threads and posts all kinds of lies about chritianity and claims to be whatever religion suits him at the time. There is no use arguing w/ him being as he will just quote some bs off of on of his cult websites and keep rambling on about the "conspiracy" Christianty and about how God really doesn't love us. The best thing that can be done is pray for him b/c i highly doubt anything else short of God will stop him from making these blasphmous claims.... unless he drinks the red koolaide that is

[timbo81]

smj running when he sees how ridiculous his universalism theory is, how could a God be just and NOT give out punishment. Don't try and pull out that "wow you are such bad people" nonsense because it doesn't matter if I'm bad does it, I am still saved according to your logic

basically do as you feel like on earth since everyone goes to heaven.

Isn't it great I can't wait to get to this heaven of smj's concoction. I mean I'm gonna have some sweet talks to hitler and stalin about their political views, I mean there's no judgement so there is no punishment. Even see old saddam there too woot, ted bundy too yeah

[Violator009]

See, this proves how corrupt and twisted you people are! The ONLY thing keeping you from killing people and having "orgies, sex, drinking, and swearing". Do you realize how brainwashed you are? You don't, do you?

Let me try to explain it to you as I would to a child: You believe that without hell, there is NO reason to follow God's commandments. Your morality would go out the window without hell. Try to understand how evil this is. I wish I could explain it better, but I've never had to explain this to someone.

You've proven to me that the only thing keeping you from sinning is not God's commandments, not a sense of morality, not trying to keep harm from people, etc, but an eternal fire chamber. I would laugh, but I'm stunned and saddened.

I'll say it again you are a deist and not a christian therefore you are not qualified to teach any verses from the bible, you are what they call a poser and a false teacher, I hope that anyone that is weak in their faith do not listen to you...

You are teaching the beliefs of gnostics, gnostics believed that a person was free to do whatever he wanted, debauch himself to any extent, and God would forgive it, for He is gracious.



Jude 1

1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.


If some are weak in faith (wavering) and just beginning to turn away from the truth, we are to have compassion on them and try to turn them back. If we find someone in a fault, we should be gentle and attempt to return them to God's way so that we or anyone else is not snared as well.

For those who have already started down the path of evil, we have to take a more forceful approach. If we can, we have to put the fear of God in them. It may be the only thing that can bring them back. Just as Jude does in verse 13, we have to let them know what their fate will be if they continue on in their error. As difficult as it may be, we have to let them know their future is total destruction(eternal death) if they keep it up.

1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

[Zarf]

Why would God punish atheists who've read the bible and still think it's crap?

For the same reason the laws of physics and chemistry punish people who read the rules of proper bomb disposal and think it's crap. You're not punished for your opinion. You're properly rewarded for your choices and actions in life.

[CRyan64]

smj running when he sees how ridiculous his universalism theory is, how could a God be just and NOT give out punishment.

basically do as you feel like on earth since everyone goes to heaven.

Isn't it great I can't wait to get to this heaven of smj's concoction. I mean I'm gonna have some sweet talks to hitler and stalin about their political views, I mean there's no judgement so there is no punishment. Even see old saddam there too woot, ted bundy too yeah

How can god be fair and either damn non-believers to hell or erase them from existence?