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  1. #1
    Registered User paradox_nz's Avatar
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    Cool soy protein increases estrogen levels ??

    is it true that soy protein can increase the estrogen levels in a person who is taking it ????

    and i wonder if the amino acid tablets can substitute the protein shack ?
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  2. #2
    Registered User wildominguez's Avatar
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    Everybody says so...

    Phytoestrogens are present in soy. Many times soy is recommended to menopausal women for that reason.
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  3. #3
    60lb Hub Pinch bigasssnowman's Avatar
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    soy, pot, alcohol, drinking and eating out of plastic. all kinds of crap out there that has estrogen, including the water you drink. (female products, birth control etc being flushed down the toilet, and not part of the filtering process when reused)
    1 year out!

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  4. #4
    game over DRP7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paradox_nz View Post
    is it true that soy protein can increase the estrogen levels in a person who is taking it ????

    and i wonder if the amino acid tablets can substitute the protein shack ?

    soy protein per se does NOT increase estrogen levels. there are other fractions (phytoestrogens) that may have pro-estrogenic effects. however, if you can get a "isoflavone-free" soy protein isolate, you wouldn't need to fear any pro-estrogenic effects.
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  5. #5
    Registered User paradox_nz's Avatar
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    Smile thanks Dr p

    as i had many problems with the whey protein as bloating, gas , discomfort even thought i am not lactose intolerant . i learned that soy could be a good alternative but as i said i am a bit hesitant to try it becouse of the estrogen issue . if i take amino acids is that enough or protein is essential???? .
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  6. #6
    game over DRP7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paradox_nz View Post
    as i had many problems with the whey protein as bloating, gas , discomfort even thought i am not lactose intolerant . i learned that soy could be a good alternative but as i said i am a bit hesitant to try it becouse of the estrogen issue . if i take amino acids is that enough or protein is essential???? .
    looks like you could have a lactose intolearnce. I recommend you to try a whey-isolate (WPI) which has extremely low lactose levels (e.g. Substance WPI). whey concentrates have much more lactose and this can lead to bloating / diarrhea in some people.

    It is not very feasible to replace protein with amino acids because of the huge costs of AAs, becasue of the lack of natural health promoting peptides and because of the kinetics: the only time when you really want immediate absorbtion of amino acids is pre/post workout, but not throughout the day.

    You should really try one of the better WPIs out there.
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  7. #7
    Registered User YUL's Avatar
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    having a bit of soy in your diet won't turn you into a woman or make you gay.

    Don't worry about "the estrogen issue"

    Remember, get your protein from a WIDE variety of sources, not just animal sources.
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  8. #8
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    Phytoestrogens act as natural SERMS. They are thousands of times weaker than estrogen hormones present in the body, yet they competitively bind to the receptor - UNABLING the real estrogen to bind to it. So in a way - isoflavones can even act as ANTI-estrogens.
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  9. #9
    Registered User paradox_nz's Avatar
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    Smile another question ?

    will i think that my dream to be bulky will never become true since i cant consume the most important supplement in this sport .

    I am sure that i am not lactose tolerant since I can eat all the dairy products without any problems and i never experienced any problems with them in the past.

    I also had diarrhea with whey protein i forget to mention that above .

    just wondering Dr P can u please give me some brand names for WPI products. thank u .

    and regarding to the AAc i have learned from another source that they are made form casein which is not good for overweight people ?

    at the mean time i am taking L glutamine with a 5g dose believe it or not this also caused a bit of discomfort as well but no diarrhea and much less when i take only one whey protein shack.

    I ask someone about these symptoms and he said that they are completely normal . but for me i cant countine using whey and live a miserables life .
    Last edited by paradox_nz; 03-30-2007 at 10:49 PM.
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  10. #10
    game over DRP7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paradox_nz View Post
    ... can u please give me some brand names for WPI products. thank u .
    for example:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/prima/wpi.html

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/syn/nectar.html
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  11. #11
    Registered User HALON's Avatar
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    My friend used soy milk, and after a few months started to get man boobs.
    "In AUSTRALIA
    Each year there are 470 000 adverse events, 18 000 deaths, and 50 000 permanent disabilities arising from medical error and negligence each year. This is four times higher compared to the USA." (Second oppinion, GERMOV quote, page 293)

    353 fatal car crashes were recorded on Australian roads in 2008 (RTA, 2008). You are 50 TIMES more likely to die from medical negligence from a DOCTOR compared to being fatally injured in a car crash and they say driving is dangerous.
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  12. #12
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    Thats because he got fat.
    I drink soy milk regularly. Look at my profile.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by paradox_nz View Post
    will i think that my dream to be bulky will never become true since i cant consume the most important supplement in this sport .

    I am sure that i am not lactose tolerant since I can eat all the dairy products without any problems and i never experienced any problems with them in the past.

    I also had diarrhea with whey protein i forget to mention that above .

    just wondering Dr P can u please give me some brand names for WPI products. thank u .

    and regarding to the AAc i have learned from another source that they are made form casein which is not good for overweight people ?

    at the mean time i am taking L glutamine with a 5g dose believe it or not this also caused a bit of discomfort as well but no diarrhea and much less when i take only one whey protein shack.

    I ask someone about these symptoms and he said that they are completely normal . but for me i cant countine using whey and live a miserables life .

    You must stick to isolates only, and PURE isolates. (Natures best Zero carb for example). Read the label, it must state that your whey has 0 carbs per serving. You can use that safely.
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  14. #14
    Registered User paradox_nz's Avatar
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    Talking Bob ?

    are u sure about that , does he work out regularly ?

    Vadim Beliaev about the profile i am new here will u tell me how to explore that thanks .
    Last edited by paradox_nz; 03-31-2007 at 09:26 AM.
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  15. #15
    pale and scrawny blackwax's Avatar
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    soy

    soy protein powder does not cause feminization. this is a ridiculous myth. additionally, in medical studies it has been shown that soy does not help women with low estrogen. in order to get any pro-estrogen effects from soy, you'd have to eat more soy than is humanly possible. bottom line: soy is fine.
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  16. #16
    AEN Board Rep HalleluYAH's Avatar
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    Soy: Potential Effects on Hormone Levels in Men
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=698242
    Athletic Edge Nutrition
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ae/ae.htm

    Contributing Author, Strength and Science Weekly
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  17. #17
    protein connoisseur Joe D's Avatar
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    i've been using mhp's probolic-sr and up your mass for over a year now. both contain soy protein. i dont have bitch tits. has anyone heard of someone getting gyno from using soy? probably not.
    call me the rap assasinator, rhymes rugged and built like schwarzenegger.
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  18. #18
    Extraordinary Leaguer 7:360's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joe81 View Post
    i've been using mhp's probolic-sr and up your mass for over a year now. both contain soy protein. i dont have bitch tits. has anyone heard of someone getting gyno from using soy? probably not.
    Not exactly the way I would've put it but I myself drink about 24-32 oz. of soy milk a day.Nothing crazy happening here: emotionally, psychologically and especially physically..

    I didn't think there were any adverse effects in women OR men when using Non-GMO soy? Lord knows what GMO soy will do...
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  19. #19
    Registered User paradox_nz's Avatar
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    what u mean by GMO ??
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  20. #20
    Registered User paradox_nz's Avatar
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    someone else has disscued this before sorry for the reption guys .
    Last edited by paradox_nz; 04-07-2007 at 05:24 AM.
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    GMO = Genetically Modified Organism
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    Originally Posted by Vadim Beliaev View Post
    Phytoestrogens act as natural SERMS. They are thousands of times weaker than estrogen hormones present in the body, yet they competitively bind to the receptor - UNABLING the real estrogen to bind to it. So in a way - isoflavones can even act as ANTI-estrogens.
    that is a very intersteing spin on this issue.

    I think this whole debate is BS - any effects are minimal at best.... just my 2 cents
    Last edited by HumpStrap; 01-22-2010 at 07:47 AM.
    Yep
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    Originally Posted by paradox_nz View Post
    as i had many problems with the whey protein as bloating, gas , discomfort even thought i am not lactose intolerant . i learned that soy could be a good alternative but as i said i am a bit hesitant to try it becouse of the estrogen issue . if i take amino acids is that enough or protein is essential???? .
    There are some digestive enzymes included in some whey suppliers mix. Like ON's Gold Standard. I did have the occasional gas when taking their whey. However I noticed that when I eat a pro-biotic yogurt, I have no gas from dairy products.
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    Originally Posted by 7:360 View Post
    I didn't think there were any adverse effects in women OR men when using Non-GMO soy? Lord knows what GMO soy will do...
    Your body doesn't utilize the DNA from other organisms (no incorporation). So GMO's are safe.
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    Originally Posted by DRP7 View Post
    soy protein per se does NOT increase estrogen levels. there are other fractions (phytoestrogens) that may have pro-estrogenic effects. however, if you can get a "isoflavone-free" soy protein isolate, you wouldn't need to fear any pro-estrogenic effects.

    actually, i am pretty sure that in additional to being partial ER agonists, daidzen and genistein can also induce aromatase activity

    so theoretically the may incresase endogenous estrogen production
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    Originally Posted by Vadim Beliaev View Post
    Thats because he got fat.
    I drink soy milk regularly. Look at my profile.


    i drink soy milk too, but relatively sparingly. moderation is the key
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    Originally Posted by afranczyk View Post
    Your body doesn't utilize the DNA from other organisms (no incorporation). So GMO's are safe.

    its not the modified DNA per se that is the controversial issue. Rather, its the protein(s) that the modified gene expresses and shows up in the food product

    Personally i think its a much ado about nothing but theoretically any odd gene has the potential to make a protein that might have adverse effects in humans. But then monkeys might fly out of my ass too
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    I won't pretend to know about the chemistry of different proteins, etc. However, on a personal note I actually had my physician take me off of soy products. I am allergic to casein protein and am lactose intolerant (there goes milk) and I am very allergic to peanuts. In December of 08 I found soynut butter and soy milk, and these took care of my milk and peanut cravings. I was consuming approximately 30 g a day of soy protein from these products and nothing else. Mind you, I am a very healthy eater and work out regularly. By May of 09 by body was a car wreck. I had put on approximately 20 lbs of fat, I was in full-blown depression, had lost my sex drive, and, needless to say, my testosterone levels had tanked. Luckily, my doctor had heard of a similar case and he had me take the soy products out of my diet. It took me about five months before my body had returned to normal. THE SOY WAS THE ONLY CHANGES THAT TOOK PLACE TO MY DIET THE ENTIRE TIME. I'm not big on supplements, I don't make big changes to my diet, I don't take medication. There was no other explanation other than the soy.

    This is just a personal story. I don't know chemistry, etc. I don't bash soy products, I hope they work wonders for other people. However, I have to stay away from them unless I want to channel my inner Boy George...
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    its not the modified DNA per se that is the controversial issue. Rather, its the protein(s) that the modified gene expresses and shows up in the food product

    Personally i think its a much ado about nothing but theoretically any odd gene has the potential to make a protein that might have adverse effects in humans. But then monkeys might fly out of my ass too
    Wasn't the Trytophan problem in the 80s a result of the unintended amino acid byproduct from GMOs? Or am I rembering it wrong?

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