Why Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is THE art to learn if you can learn only one!

[DaHooligan]

I think trying to defend yourself from sexual assult by grappling is a terrible idea

yup especially if the guy has a pen, knife, tool, key in his pocket...he could just reach in it while your in gaurd trying to apply a triangle and then shank the **** outta your abdomen.

they always say kick the balls hard thats the best defense before the person can get on top of you.

[TheClips]

I think trying to defend yourself from sexual assult by grappling is a terrible idea

The idea is that most of the time if a girl is being sexually assaulted, the assailant is already going to be in between the girl's legs...And if the dude doesn't know what BJJ is, a girl could easily reach up and do a no-gi loop choke, a double arm bar, a collar cross choke, an ezekiel choke (if she has sleeves), a triangle, etc.. If he tries to straight-arm choke her or cover mouth, that's an arm bar or a side choke waiting to happen!

Or ****, she could get creative and just close her guard and pull him in while digging both of her thumbs into his eyeballs, or grabbing behind his head, pulling him down and biting his nose or lips off!

Unless the assailant is WAY postured up, he'll be WAY off balance, at least enough for a sweep or something--anyone that has taken BJJ can attest to this fact--anyone who hasn't trained BJJ, your opinion cannot be noted on this particular facet of the discussion...Not being a jerk or anything, its just that you'd have no clue--like that guy that thinks he can whip Ken Flo

[Spuddy]

The idea is that most of the time if a girl is being sexually assaulted, the assailant is already going to be in between the girl's legs...And if the dude doesn't know what BJJ is, a girl could easily reach up and do a no-gi loop choke, a double arm bar, a collar cross choke, an ezekiel choke (if she has sleeves), a triangle, etc.. If he tries to straight-arm choke her or cover mouth, that's an arm bar or a side choke waiting to happen!

Or ****, she could get creative and just close her guard and pull him in while digging both of her thumbs into his eyeballs, or grabbing behind his head, pulling him down and biting his nose or lips off!

Unless the assailant is WAY postured up, he'll be WAY off balance, at least enough for a sweep or something--anyone that has taken BJJ can attest to this fact--anyone who hasn't trained BJJ, your opinion cannot be noted on this particular facet of the discussion...Not being a jerk or anything, its just that you'd have no clue--like that guy that thinks he can whip Ken Flo

good post. bjj is about as good as it gets for a girl getting raped- the amount of submissions open for grabs is pretty much endless (i dont know too much about bjj, but grappling is something ive always enjoyed, as it's my natural instinctive fighting style)

[Kane Fan]

The idea is that most of the time if a girl is being sexually assaulted, the assailant is already going to be in between the girl's legs...And if the dude doesn't know what BJJ is, a girl could easily reach up and do a no-gi loop choke, a double arm bar, a collar cross choke, an ezekiel choke (if she has sleeves), a triangle, etc.. If he tries to straight-arm choke her or cover mouth, that's an arm bar or a side choke waiting to happen!

Or ****, she could get creative and just close her guard and pull him in while digging both of her thumbs into his eyeballs, or grabbing behind his head, pulling him down and biting his nose or lips off!

Unless the assailant is WAY postured up, he'll be WAY off balance, at least enough for a sweep or something--anyone that has taken BJJ can attest to this fact--anyone who hasn't trained BJJ, your opinion cannot be noted on this particular facet of the discussion...Not being a jerk or anything, its just that you'd have no clue--like that guy that thinks he can whip Ken Flo

assuming he's managed to get between her legs is rather like asusming he'll have succesfully raped her so isntead of a martial art why not recomend a good counciling program?
and anyone who know sanything about BJJ or Mixed Martial arts or anything
knows for a woman to sweep a man successfully is going to take YEARS of training on her part
also if he decides to punch her while he's in her guard, her BJJ belt just became white
cus that isn't how she trains so she has become clueless
it's ok to work BJJ to get away if he gets to there
but you should realy train mixed so you can try to avoid that all together

[Spuddy]

assuming he's managed to get between her legs is rather like asusming he'll have succesfully raped her so isntead of a martial art why not recomend a good counciling program?
and anyone who know sanything about BJJ or Mixed Martial arts or anything
knows for a woman to sweep a man successfully is going to take YEARS of training on her part
also if he decides to punch her while he's in her guard, her BJJ belt just became white
cus that isn't how she trains so she has become clueless
it's ok to work BJJ to get away if he gets to there
but you should realy train mixed so you can try to avoid that all together

so you dont think he's open for submission when he whips it out? there's plenty of opportunity before the actual rape

[DaHooligan]

so you dont think he's open for submission when he whips it out? there's plenty of opportunity before the actual rape

you gotta remember its extremely difficult to apply a submission especially if the guy is strong and he himself keeps moving...some of theze rapist are super horny that theya re almost like on pcp they could probally lift the chick up and slam her on her head if she was in an armbar....and the reality is if she got him in a choke he would just stab her abdomen or puncher her in the kidneys from top position or even choke her with an illegal choke with the hands on the neck...its not illegal on the streets but illegal in ufc.

its always best to keep a street fight standing...her best bet would be kick his balls and run.

or pick up a weapon, stun gun or can of mace.pepperspray to carry with her.

or if worse comes to worse tell the dude she got Aids. lol

[thephoenix]

Personally, I think Muay Thai, or boxing or maybe judo is the best for self defense. I think its important in a street fight to not go to the ground if you can help it. I'm not talking about a couple of high school kids fighting in the park, I mean outside a club or whatever. You go to the ground, chances are someone other than who you're fighting is gonna kick you, or who the hell knows what else.

If, and it is an if you can finish a guy while standing MT, or boxing, its a much safer and simpler solution imho.

As for a girl getting raped, pepper sparay or a gun...

[wanaBsedated]

I've noticed that about fighting chicks too! That's kinda ironic, huh?

I was interested to know why you think judo would be better for multiple attackers--is it because of the throws? I just could see someone getting rushed by the others while trying to throw the one guy...

Honestly, if it ever came down to me being squared off against by 2+ guys, I would just run...I will admit that in that case, Muay Thai would probably be your best bet. Just throw a SICK leg kick and run!!

It's just that BJJ, to me, represents the worst case scenario. If you are fighting against one untrained guy and you are proficient in a striking art, you are good...But if you fall down or are taken down, you are just as "untrained" as your attacker.....

However, if you know BJJ, you can be "untrained" on your feet and hence equal to your attacker, (because everyone is capable of at least trying to punch and kick), but when it goes to the ground (especially if you're getting whipped on your feet and want to take it down then), you will own the dude...Basically, a fight is more likely to go on the ground and then stay there then it is to start on the feet and stay there.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

YOu can throw someone really quickly and some judo throws willl knock you out and can kill.

[DaHooligan]

YOu can throw someone really quickly and some judo throws willl knock you out and can kill.

So true!

kimura kept tossing helio gracie in hopes of knocking him out...but they fought on a soft padded mat so it was difficult but they said kimura has tossed people and knocked them out before with his judo throws.

[Kozma]

So true!

kimura kept tossing helio gracie in hopes of knocking him out...but they fought on a soft padded mat so it was difficult but they said kimura has tossed people and knocked them out before with his judo throws.

"if you have a disagreement with someone, spike them headfirst onto the concrete, you can't argue with a severe concussion or cracked skull"

[DaHooligan]

"if you have a disagreement with someone, spike them headfirst onto the concrete, you can't argue with a severe concussion or cracked skull"

lmao funny.

[TheClips]

assuming he's managed to get between her legs is rather like asusming he'll have succesfully raped her so isntead of a martial art why not recomend a good counciling program?
and anyone who know sanything about BJJ or Mixed Martial arts or anything
knows for a woman to sweep a man successfully is going to take YEARS of training on her part
also if he decides to punch her while he's in her guard, her BJJ belt just became white
cus that isn't how she trains so she has become clueless
it's ok to work BJJ to get away if he gets to there
but you should realy train mixed so you can try to avoid that all together

Wouldn't a rapist want to be in between a chicks legs if he is raping her? It's kind of hard to stick it in if her legs aren't open, ya know? So the "guard" is a natural position for a girl who is being assaulted to be in.

Also, I assume that you don't know "anything about BJJ" because it doesn't take YEARS to learn a simple scissor sweep!! Try, like, a half hour of drilling!!! Being a strong guy myself, I can get swept easy by this move, whether it is by a man or woman delivering it. The only thing that keeps you safe is if you are quick enough to recognize what they are doing and bracing hard the other way.

BJJ was developed SPECIFICALLY to use leverage and balance (or lack thereof) to gain an advantage for the weaker or smaller opponent.

And plus, I wouldn't expect a girl to have an MMA grappling match with the dude...Act timid, tell him, "Please don't hurt me" and then while his eyes are gazing crotch-ward, make your move...There are DOZENS of proven techniques from this position that work on resisting opponents...And plus, I'm guessing your common rapist will not know what to look out for as far as submissions or sweeps.

And DaHooligan, any time someone is in someone's guard and they extend an arm/arms to throttle someone's windpipe, this is nothing more than an invitation for an arm bar, a double arm bar, a triangle or multiple sweeps.....

And girls don't have to fight fair either! What's stopping her from pulling a cross choke on him (which if you don't know [no mockery, just not sure if you take BJJ] is a choke utilizing the attacker's own collar that allows him to be pulled closer to the female while she cinches it in) and then literally biting his nose off???
I can hear it now, as the girl calls 911: "Yes sir, he ran down tenth street. He's about 5'10, 200 lbs, fair skin and he has no nose anymore....."

[Kane Fan]

so you dont think he's open for submission when he whips it out? there's plenty of opportunity before the actual rape

there's plenty of opportunity before he GETS HER TO THE GROUND
I'm not saying don't learn grappling
I'm saying don't use it as your first line of defence
that just gives him the advantage because your automatically getting into the range he's after

[illriginalized]

Guys,
Some of you may have read the thread asking which martial art one should take if they can only take one. In that argument, I've decided to post an article I wrote about BJJ.

Go ahead and give it a read and tell me what you think!

http://www.helium.com/tm/174506/thre...nswer-question

In all honesty... I find, Brazilian Jujitsu, Capoeira, Aikido, and Judo to be some of the most top quality, self defense and offensive fighting. But it would take many years to learn them all, and mix them all into an art form of its own.

EDIT:

Also guys, to those who are knocking BJJ as if it's not good enough for self defense nor not a good martial art to start off... please do yourself a favor... kill yourself. But seriously, if you think BJJ isn't good enough... then you should go to block buster and the library and start learning, maybe your Sensei/teacher for some odd reason is limiting all the techniques or he's just an idiot trying to make a buck.

The fact is.. BJJ or even any of the ones I listed is all worthy just on a self defense system, where you want to block, and take down the person without so much effort within a matter of seconds and be able to run away or even keep them pinned down as you scream for help.

[Kane Fan]

Wouldn't a rapist want to be in between a chicks legs if he is raping her? It's kind of hard to stick it in if her legs aren't open, ya know? So the "guard" is a natural position for a girl who is being assaulted to be in.

Also, I assume that you don't know "anything about BJJ" because it doesn't take YEARS to learn a simple scissor sweep!! Try, like, a half hour of drilling!!! Being a strong guy myself, I can get swept easy by this move, whether it is by a man or woman delivering it. The only thing that keeps you safe is if you are quick enough to recognize what they are doing and bracing hard the other way.

BJJ was developed SPECIFICALLY to use leverage and balance (or lack thereof) to gain an advantage for the weaker or smaller opponent.

And plus, I wouldn't expect a girl to have an MMA grappling match with the dude...Act timid, tell him, "Please don't hurt me" and then while his eyes are gazing crotch-ward, make your move...There are DOZENS of proven techniques from this position that work on resisting opponents...And plus, I'm guessing your common rapist will not know what to look out for as far as submissions or sweeps.

And DaHooligan, any time someone is in someone's guard and they extend an arm/arms to throttle someone's windpipe, this is nothing more than an invitation for an arm bar, a double arm bar, a triangle or multiple sweeps.....

And girls don't have to fight fair either! What's stopping her from pulling a cross choke on him (which if you don't know [no mockery, just not sure if you take BJJ] is a choke utilizing the attacker's own collar that allows him to be pulled closer to the female while she cinches it in) and then literally biting his nose off???
I can hear it now, as the girl calls 911: "Yes sir, he ran down tenth street. He's about 5'10, 200 lbs, fair skin and he has no nose anymore....."

I'm sorry but you lack something
I don't know if it's raw intelligence
experience with real life grappling
expereince rolling with women
not sure what your missing but you simply arn't using true statements

you think that a woman can scissor sweep a man, after 30 minutes of training, this is pure stupidity.

your JJ knowledge is lacking, bracing hard the other way isn't the only way to stop a scissor sweep, a good base goes a long way, tho I admit during a rape he's probubly not working his base....
(btw less then half of all rapes are vaginal. not to be too graphic but there is a better chance that he will be behind her then in her guard)

it's true that your average rapist won't have that BUT your average woman isn't going to be able to keep her wits about her in that situation either so BJJ won't help her any

biting a nose off isn't sanitary..

the thing is your getting all defensive like I have attacked BJJ
not the case
I'm just saying why skip the FIRST line of defence which is while you are still standing?
lets not do half the rapists job for him hmmm?

[illriginalized]

I'm sorry but you lack something
I don't know if it's raw intelligence
experience with real life grappling
expereince rolling with women
not sure what your missing but you simply arn't using true statements

you think that a woman can scissor sweep a man, after 30 minutes of training, this is pure stupidity.

your JJ knowledge is lacking, bracing hard the other way isn't the only way to stop a scissor sweep, a good base goes a long way, tho I admit during a rape he's probubly not working his base....
(btw less then half of all rapes are vaginal. not to be too graphic but there is a better chance that he will be behind her then in her guard)

it's true that your average rapist won't have that BUT your average woman isn't going to be able to keep her wits about her in that situation either so BJJ won't help her any

biting a nose off isn't sanitary..

the thing is your getting all defensive like I have attacked BJJ
not the case
I'm just saying why skip the FIRST line of defence which is while you are still standing?
lets not do half the rapists job for him hmmm?

I'm not tryin to disrespect you... but you basically just struggled with this post in order to try and prove "TheClips" wrong, what he said, just from reading was all correct. You obviously have no knowledge of BJJ, maybe you've seen some youtube videos, but those alone aren't good enough since they don't have all the moves (at least from all the searches I've done when I was tryin to show my mom the moves I learned, I didn't even find more than 10 common BJJ moves on youtube/google)

And biting a nose off isn't sanitary, guy... c'mon man. women have this thing called, PRIDE. They'll do whatever they can to keep their PRIDE. If they could bite the rapist's dick or balls off, they'd do it. Unless she's practically retarded... I understand.

[powerman2000]

If you can only take one style, I'd take Judo. Find a good instructor who teaches you the ground game.

For self defense, Judo would also be better.

Use the biggest thing in the room to beat up your opponent. It's common sense. The floor.

Agreed here

[DaHooligan]

you guys are acting like its so easy for a girl to take a rabid horny rapist in a submission easy...

you forget how long it took royce to submit some of those guys in early ufc.

and he was a bjj expert.

[Storms of War]

I'd rather train in Judo personally. For self defense, they teach you how to launch people out of your way so you can get the hell out of there. That's if there's more than one guy. If there's only one, you can drop them on their head. Any decent place does a lot of training on the ground too. Aside from that, your balance will improve greatly, making it harder to get you off of your feet. Judo + boxing

[WolverineGuy]

Originally Posted by izzm
If you can only take one style, I'd take Judo. Find a good instructor who teaches you the ground game.

For self defense, Judo would also be better.

Use the biggest thing in the room to beat up your opponent. It's common sense. The floor.

The guy that taught Helio and his brother the techniques was actually a direct student of Jigoro Kano...so they actually studied Judo.

As for Judo getting no credit in MMA, I saw a UFC fight a while back between diego and some guy who was a Judo badass. Diego said "no way is he taking me down with that Judo crap." Deigo spent most of teh night on the ground from this guys takedowns. The only thing that saved Diego is his insane conditioning...if the boy never wears down, he's not gonna lose, no matter what.

Point being, Judo techniques really took it to a guy that's supposedly really good at bjj.

[Duggan18]

ehh, being 100% BJJ and no stand-up would suck for self-defense. if there's ever more people around than the person you're fighting/defending yourself from, you probably wouldn't want to go to the ground.

btw, Fedor is an excellent judo artist, and uses his Judo training in his fights all the time.

[Kane Fan]

In all honesty... I find, Brazilian Jujitsu, Capoeira, Aikido, and Judo to be some of the most top quality, self defense and offensive fighting. But it would take many years to learn them all, and mix them all into an art form of its own.

EDIT:

Also guys, to those who are knocking BJJ as if it's not good enough for self defense nor not a good martial art to start off... please do yourself a favor... kill yourself. But seriously, if you think BJJ isn't good enough... then you should go to block buster and the library and start learning, maybe your Sensei/teacher for some odd reason is limiting all the techniques or he's just an idiot trying to make a buck.

The fact is.. BJJ or even any of the ones I listed is all worthy just on a self defense system, where you want to block, and take down the person without so much effort within a matter of seconds and be able to run away or even keep them pinned down as you scream for help.

I'm a little confused
which of the styles you listed helps people to run away?
maybe with Capoeira you could cartwheel away...
btw listing Akido as a valuable self defence style usually means people in this section just ignore everything else in your post
just so you know

[TheClips]

(btw less then half of all rapes are vaginal. not to be too graphic but there is a better chance that he will be behind her then in her guard)

I'm sorry, but you lack something...
I don't know if its raw intelligence
knowledge of human anatomy or
getting it on with women, but...

vaginal sex/rape can indeed happen from "behind"!!


Just playing man, I just had to be immature for a second--ya gotta admit, you walked right into that one!

Seriously, I can see your point about not "pulling guard" on a standing rapist, but given what everyone is saying about women, it will end up on the ground inevitably because they are "so weak and frail"...So the only other thing you could possibly teach them is how to run fast.

There is no way that if a BJJ move wouldn't work with a women's strength that ANY other martial art could possibly do her well...Let's not fall for the old pre-UFC 1 mindset of, "I just won't let him take me down" and "I'll just knock him out with my power punch/kick."

And since I somehow expect you to "give a little," I'll return the favor and "give a little" too.

Yes, it would be hard to maintain nerves so that you could do the technique properly in a real life or death situation.

Also, a girl could completely LEARN the scissor sweep in a half hour, but it would probably take a good couple of hours of rolling (at five minutes per round, split up over those hours) to learn how to recognize the opportunity for it and go for it against a fully resisting opponent....

I still hold though that it by no means takes YEARS to learn application of basic moves in BJJ. Otherwise, I would never submit anyone and likewise would never be submitted or swept. Tournaments would SUCK!

[Kane Fan]

I'm not tryin to disrespect you... but you basically just struggled with this post in order to try and prove "TheClips" wrong, what he said, just from reading was all correct. You obviously have no knowledge of BJJ, maybe you've seen some youtube videos, but those alone aren't good enough since they don't have all the moves (at least from all the searches I've done when I was tryin to show my mom the moves I learned, I didn't even find more than 10 common BJJ moves on youtube/google)

And biting a nose off isn't sanitary, guy... c'mon man. women have this thing called, PRIDE. They'll do whatever they can to keep their PRIDE. If they could bite the rapist's dick or balls off, they'd do it. Unless she's practically retarded... I understand.

no child you are quite confused
there was no struggling in my post at all, except the struggling to understand how BJJ turned into a godsend insetad of just a martial art, not sure where along the way that happend

(for your mom try bjj.org it is pretty complete, well a far cry better then 10 moves at least)
actually women don't usually fight, if they resist usually the Rapist leaves, too much work. most times if the woman yells at a man who gets too close he will leave even if his plan initially was to rape her.

now how exactly is it that you think you will teach a woman to sweep a man from her guard in 30 minutes?

just to shut you up about the no knowledge of BJJ thing cus that's getting old, I've been training in it for over a year
just because someone disagrees with you dosn't mean they are ignorant
try learning that it'll go a long way in being mature

I'm curiuos now tho do your classes have a lot of women that come in?
and are the women that do come in sweeping people twice thier size the first class? cus newbies that come into where I train the first day they can't get anything right, and we spend more then 30 minutes trying to get them to learn stuff
guardwork especially is difficult for a newbie

[Kane Fan]

I'd rather train in Judo personally. For self defense, they teach you how to launch people out of your way so you can get the hell out of there. That's if there's more than one guy. If there's only one, you can drop them on their head. Any decent place does a lot of training on the ground too. Aside from that, your balance will improve greatly, making it harder to get you off of your feet. Judo + boxing

yes yes Judo + Boxing when someone wants to get thier feet wet with martial arts or defend them selves I usually offer that combo
Judo + Boxing
two effective styles that are usually readily available near any big city AND they tend to be cheap in comparisson
(also it's easier to check out a Boxing gyms record then a MThai schools, for me at least)
plus with boxing you do a lot of running
and that comes in handy if your ever in a fight not going your way

[Kane Fan]

ehh, being 100% BJJ and no stand-up would suck for self-defense. if there's ever more people around than the person you're fighting/defending yourself from, you probably wouldn't want to go to the ground.

btw, Fedor is an excellent judo artist, and uses his Judo training in his fights all the time.

you don't want to go to the ground ANYWAY even if it's just 1 on 1
you cannot garountee that you will never have a fight with someone that trains in another grappling art (lets say your both BJJ stylists for simplicity sake) and you for whatever reason are in a fight with a BJJ Brown, now sadly for you your ass is a BJJ Blue
you can't SEE that he's a good ground fighter while he's STANDING there being mouthy or smacking your g/f's ass or whatever provokes this fight
but you know when you do know he's a good Ground guy?
when your already on the ground and can't get away from him
that's why you should keep a fight standing, if you find out your fighting a better boxer you can try to take him down (or better yet) run the hell away
it's hard to run away once you've moved into grappling range
grapplers don't like to admit that, they like to live in this fantacy land where they only battle guys who have no grappling experience and most of the time that'll be true. but it only takes one time with the wrong guy who DOES have grappling skills to cost you your life

[illriginalized]

I'm a little confused
which of the styles you listed helps people to run away?
maybe with Capoeira you could cartwheel away...
btw listing Akido as a valuable self defence style usually means people in this section just ignore everything else in your post
just so you know

Oh wow... please master... tell me how Aikido is just ****.

Kane deal with it, my friend was over when you started posting... your only defense in why BJJ is not as good is "ground fightin" that's all you keep using as a way to sway people from joining BJJ. At least from the last 2-3 MMA threads I've been involved.

If you're worried about scraping your soft skin on the ground... then drop BJJ and go join cheerleading.

Sorry for being a royal prick, but seriously... you're slamming martial arts that are very powerful... lol especially Aikido... give me a break.

[Duggan18]

kane fan, the chances of you getting in a fight with someone who is good on the ground is 10x less likely than someone who can knock you the F out. and if you do take them down and realize they are better than you on the ground, it won't be impossible to stand up and run away. or rip their balls off

in 1v1, taking someone down is a good idea if you know what you're doing.

[illriginalized]

in 1v1, taking someone down is a good idea if you know what you're doing.

That's the way I see it. kane is thinkin of fightin in a ring or fightin for more than 5 minutes in general. Normally fights last no longer than 5 minutes. On top of that it's less likely to fight another person who happens to know martial arts, and if you're dedicated and properly trained, you're best bet is to totally own them in holding moves. I'll admit, I'd rather fight a boxer where we throw fists at each other, than some one who knows Aikido, Judo, or BJJ and can fling me around and put painful/uncomfortable holds on me.

[illriginalized]

DaHooligan: with stuff like aikido and karate they work but you have to use it when your catching the guy off guard otherwise if he is in a fighting stance and alert and ready to expect something you could be Fukked.

^ LOL


Uhm... take a good look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aicHsMC6rxM


There's no "off guard"
There's an attacker, and you... OWN HIM.

Oh as far as weapons... here Aikido... is also great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGg3L...elated&search=