NO2 - somebody stop me!

**plornive** · 03-18-2002, 09:02 PM

http://www.getno2.com/how.htm

Check out this supplement. What do you think of it? If it is true, I am interested in it big time.

Perhaps someone needs to slap some sense into me --- please lend me your skepticism, as mine has been replaced by my thirst for a "perpetual pump"!

**Dante B.** · 03-18-2002, 09:12 PM

Here is a link for you (you will have to make your way through my smart ass remarks).

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ight=%2Ano2%2A

**Lonny** · 03-18-2002, 09:13 PM

Not only does the ad say "It's for real" but has to be the first supp ad ever to use the word perpetual!!
Buy it!! Muscletech uses nitric oxide to put the Nitro in Nitrotech.
for the love of God buy it, step over your own mother to get it, Jesus!!! No, don't buy it so i can buy the entire stock of it!! I need a perpetual pump!!!

**plornive** · 03-18-2002, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by dantebattista
Here is a link for you (you will have to make your way through my smart ass remarks).

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ight=%2Ano2%2A

Your remarks had me rolling on the floor!

Yeah, it seems too good to be true in a positive way. Besides, where does all this blood come from for a full-body pump, or is the pump supposed to be locallized? Too many ambiguities...

**Dante B.** · 03-18-2002, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by plornive

Too many ambiguities...

.........and ambiguities are the essence of the masking of a products logical flaws.

**Jonny** · 03-19-2002, 04:23 PM

I got crap for this in the referenced post, but I'll stand by my assertion that the stuff really does work. The longer I am on it, the better the pumps get. It also has a viagara-like effect when needed....so you're not running around with a hard-on all day! I am taking the recommended 3 pills 2x per day and it is definitely worth adding to a supplement plan. The pump isn't really localized, it just feels like you did a real good full body workout all day long.

**Dante B.** · 03-19-2002, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Jonny
I got crap for this in the referenced post, but I'll stand by my assertion that the stuff really does work. The longer I am on it, the better the pumps get. It also has a viagara-like effect when needed....so you're not running around with a hard-on all day! I am taking the recommended 3 pills 2x per day and it is definitely worth adding to a supplement plan. The pump isn't really localized, it just feels like you did a real good full body workout all day long.

I do not doubt that this "works". My point of contest, lies in the fact that this product may not be any more efficient, than a product of similar comparison, and hence, may not be justified in its price. They have not invented anything new, they are merely taking common place terms and ingredients, and trademarking them. It may "work", but it may not be contextually better than another product.

**Jonny** · 03-19-2002, 04:40 PM

Yes, arginine alpha keto glatarate has been around, but we have never been able to capitalize on it's benefits. When you ingest arginine, it spikes in your system quickly and then dissipates. What NO2 does is keeps a constant "pump" of arginine alpha keto glutarate into your system. I've taken arginine before in high and moderate doses spread throughout the day, and it did nothing. There's more to NO2 than meets the eye.

**Dante B.** · 03-19-2002, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Jonny
There's more to NO2 than meets the eye.

And if this is so, then why is it that the company in question spends more time mentioning trademarked names, rather than elucidating (specifically), what they have done in order to surmount the previous short lived benefits of (A) AKG?

Again, I do not doubt that this "works", my doubt is the effectivenss of this product, weighed against their claims. Where have they specifically mentioned, their specific innovation in terms of their product. If you read Par's website, you will see the painstaking detail in which he mentions each stage of the products effectiveness, yet, in this case, the company in question only mentions the plethora of trademarked (common place) terms and ingredients, without specifically addressing (like Par), their product essential features.

**Dante B.** · 03-19-2002, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Jonny

. There's more to NO2 than meets the eye.

And if there is, indeed, more than meets the eye, regarding this product, then it is up to the company to elucidate those points of blur which are not seen by the average eye.

**Jonny** · 03-19-2002, 04:54 PM

With no flame/offence to Par, this company is marketing to a much larger audience. While Par is going one route--the no advertising, message board word-of-mouth route, NO2 is going the mainstream, get people's attention, next big thing route. It is a different, higher scale strategy which will yield higher profits in the long run. While there may not be a mainstream audience for a rub-on testosterone enhancer, a pill that increases pumps and makes you look better will have a tremendous upside. Creatine works, yet the company that introduced creatine and became a multi-million dollar company (EAS) didn't market like Par. It is tough to market a product so it gets attention and not draw skeptisism, but after more people try this product, it has the potential to become a staple like creatine.

**Dante B.** · 03-19-2002, 05:03 PM

The issue is not mainstream versus a more targeted audience; the issue is why the company spends so much time, obfuscating their terms (by trademarking them), rather than spending time specifically stating as to what they have done, in detail, in order to enhance the duration of (A) AKG. They have to spend time elucidating, like Par, the exact mechanisms for which their product works, and the manner in which they have proceeded in order to enhance the inherent properties of the ingredient (much like the way Par mentions the penetration enhancers in his transdermals). Trademarking various terms, and ingredients, does not shed light upon the darkness, nor does it enlighten anyone as to the specific properties of the product. It only serves, to surround the product in mystique.

**Jonny** · 03-19-2002, 05:10 PM

It's all marketing Dante. The fact is that to the average fitness buff, all of the science behing this stuff would go WAY over their head. If I launched creatine and went into the science, it wouldn't sell. It's much easier to understand "Get bigger muscles" than to read a double-blind study on creatine. It's a business. Par chooses to run it by efficacy and word of mouth. However, I'm sure that Par isn't running a $20 million company. People have to know about the product and be intrugued by its mystique to try it. And once they try it and it works, it doesn't matter how it works, as long as it works. Doesn't that kinda sound like how creatine became so popular? Bill Phillips hyped it, it worked, people told their friends, and everyone kept buying it.

**Dante B.** · 03-19-2002, 05:17 PM

So, are you admitting that the target audience is a group on non-cerebral idiots, who care not to know as to how the product works (or if it is as scientifically advanced as they claim)? The issue, again, is one of efficiency, not one of benefits. Does the product in question, work to the extent toward which the company claims? And if so, what have they done, specifically, to address the issue of transport, as they do not give such specific mention, for a product with such "science" behind it?

A product should be able to withstand logical scrutiny; shrouding the product with mystique does not alter this fact.

**TreyofHearts** · 03-19-2002, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Jonny
I got crap for this in the referenced post, but I'll stand by my assertion that the stuff really does work. The longer I am on it, the better the pumps get. It also has a viagara-like effect when needed....so you're not running around with a hard-on all day! I am taking the recommended 3 pills 2x per day and it is definitely worth adding to a supplement plan. The pump isn't really localized, it just feels like you did a real good full body workout all day long.

At $75 per month on this. I may try it someday, but only when some distributors offer it at a realistic price.

Trey

**DaddyR** · 03-19-2002, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by dantebattista
It only serves, to surround the product in mystique.

And of course let's not forget, "mystique" is usually synonymous with "bullsh:t".

**DaddyR** · 03-19-2002, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by Jonny
I got crap for this in the referenced post . . .

You should've gotten MORE crap more because you haven't made any other posts except those about this stuff, than for reporting your personal experience.

While it may just be your choice, to be a one-issue post-er, it leads people to suspect you're just another spammer.

**Jonny** · 03-19-2002, 08:21 PM

I appreciate your comments DaddyR, coming from a member with a whopping 142 posts! I have been lingering around here and finally decided to post. If someone did their first post on 1-test, would they be called a spammer? Dante, I feel for you as an educated consumer. We do deserve to know. However, when's the last time you saw a "Tide" commercial go into the science of laundry detergents? Never. All it says is that clothes get white. The end result is what sells product, that's what it boils down to. Instead of asking questions, it's a freakin' stoning in here! Look, I made a post, I've come back for more, and I'm still here. I'm not in any way affiliated with this company, I just thought it was a cool product. Email NO2, ask for the info you want, and see if they provide it.

**K (same)** · 03-19-2002, 08:25 PM

WE DON"T CARE!! Haven't you heard? IT is up to them to prove that the stuffs they sell work. We the consumers DON'T need to do squat!!!

Don't waste our time with crap.

I agree with DaddyR. I checked alll your posts, Your only interest here is this BS NO2 whatever hell. That is not the typical profile of a BB.com member. Spare me the philosophical crap.

DaddyR may have 142 posts. His integrity and credibility is beyond question!! Yours is highly suspicious.

**Lonny** · 03-19-2002, 08:38 PM

Jonny question.

Is this stuff as good as creatine?

What are your gains from it?

Did you last longer in the bedroom?

If i masturbate a lot while on it will my penis get bigger?

Thank you in advance.

**plornive** · 03-19-2002, 09:53 PM

I have read that increasing NO2 production actually relaxes muscle cells. This partially explains the loss of mobility from a pump. Jonny, have your lifts changed at all?

I can post the article if someone asks, but I'm too lazy right now.

**Dante B.** · 03-19-2002, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by plornive
I have read that increasing NO2 production actually relaxes muscle cells. This partially explains the loss of mobility from a pump

The loss of mobility from a pump, is not due to the inability to contract the muscle (like taking a muscle relaxant), but rather, the enhanced fullness of the muscle, without the flexibility to accompany it (your fascia, and your body in general, would have to be more flexible, in order to accompany an increase in girth, and without this flexibility, comes a decrease in mobility). This is what I would assume, at least, for the fact that again, the loss of mobility is not the loss of contraction, but rather the loss of the range of motion.

**plornive** · 03-20-2002, 06:38 AM

" The mechanism by which NO modulates vascular control is by way of the second messenger, cyclic guanosine monophosphate (cGMP). In working muscles, nitric oxide (NO) activates the enzyme guanylate cyclase, which results in increased levels of cGMP, producing smooth muscle relaxation of blood vessel walls. This causes vasodilation. Increasing blood flow to working muscles in this way is necessary to counteract the effects of catecholamines (i.e. adrenaline, noradrenaline). This is the same type of mechanism as cAMP formation following beta-receptor activation. "

This is a quote from Brian Haycock. It is on the qfaq website, so take it as you will. http://www.qfac.com/bodybuilding_articles/viagra.html

If this is true then increased NO2 has a real downside. Then again, who the **** can one believe?

**Ice Man** · 03-20-2002, 07:18 AM

Blah blah blah blah blah...

It seems that people are looking at the same coin from different sides. Johny has his point with the "who cares how it works" approach with marketing. The average consumer doesn't give a squat about how it works all they want to know is results. We were all there (well most of us) at one point in time. While on the other hand we are all some what educate in our purchases now and are tired of being beat in the head with the bullshyt bat. Everyone says their product works, why wouldn't they, so why the hell should we simply take the word of one guy who hasn't even said what his results were.

So I'm pretty sure you see where we are coming from Johny. It after each post you make it makes it harder to believe that you are just the average Joe who got a lucky break and was given the chance to try the next best thing. You argue the point about why it would work like you have something at stake. Please tell me why one would want a pump all day. IMO that would take away some of my post work out joy...

So until you can give us the info we so crave, or at least some true product validation, just save it for the general public.

-Ice

**Sabercat** · 03-20-2002, 07:42 AM

I understand you don't know the science behind the product. Could you relate to us your own personal experience with it then? I have some questions below that I in particular are interested in knowing. I will say this though, anything you say can and will be used against you in future flames ;-) but you knew that already.

1. How much did you pay for the product?
2. How did you have access to it before the general public?
3. Would you buy it again at the retail price of $75.00?
4. What is the label recommended dose? How much are you taking?
5. Are you still taking it? How long where you on?
6. What side effects did you notice? Increase/decrease appetite, libido, ringing in the ears, thirst?
7. Did you notice an increse in blood preasure, heartbeat, breathing?
8. Any stimulant effect?
9. How long did it take for the 'pumped' effect to occur?
10. Would you say the 'pump' was directly workout related?
11. How many days off have you had and did the 'pump' fade?
12. Did the 'pump' increase vascularity, muscle size or both? do you have any measurements?
13. Do you think the 'pump' was blood or water?
14. If you have stopped using, how long did the 'pump' last?
15. Did you notice any strength or endurance gains?
16. If you noticed gains, how would you quantify them and are they maintainable?
17. What is your body building experience? years? competitions?
18. What was your height, weight and BF% before NO2? After? Do you have pictures?
19. What is your work out regime? days? sets? reps? did you change anything while taking NO2?
20. What is your kcal intake and ratio before, during, and after taking it?
21. What other supplements did you take with NO2?
22. What supplements do you normally take?
23. have you ever used AS (including 1test)? How long ago? What and how much?

Thanks for your time.

**Dante B.** · 03-20-2002, 08:10 AM

Plornive, the body has to find a way to balance itself, so obviously, if a muscle becomes to rigid form stimulation, a path has to be found in order to relax it. My only point of mention, was in regard to the loss of mobility due to a pump. Again, the loss is a reduction in the range of motion, not a decrease in contraction (on a good squat day, remember getting a such massive squat induced pump which reduced your ability to walk, since your legs were so pumped and tight?). As a side note, I have found Forskolin by itself (not with ECA) to be quite helpful in moments of extreme tension.

Sabercat, what the ****?

By time he answered those questions, I am sure that he would develop Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (and a good Perpetual Pump TM in his wrists).

**Jonny** · 03-20-2002, 09:38 AM

I'll just answer the longest list of questions here and go from there. I guarantee that you'll se me participating in other aspects of this board, I'm new here and this is something I wanted to chime in on.

1. How much did you pay for the product?

It was a trial, so in essence....nothing. However, now I am paying the full retail on it.

2. How did you have access to it before the general public?

Friend of a friend. They were conducting some tests on bodybuilders and I happened to be one of them.

3. Would you buy it again at the retail price of $75.00?

Yes. Everyone is individual, but it did work for me.

4. What is the label recommended dose? How much are you taking?

3 pills 2 times per day. I tried 3 pills 3 times per day and its effects were even stronger. There is 3000mg of arginine alpha keto glutarate per dose.

5. Are you still taking it? How long where you on?

Yes, it has been 8 weeks.

6. What side effects did you notice? Increase/decrease appetite, libido, ringing in the ears, thirst?

Thirst was one of them, but I drink a gallon of h2o a day so that went away. My appetite increased slightly yet I didn't put on fat due to a slight caloric increase. I did have...ummm....harder erections.

7. Did you notice an increse in blood preasure, heartbeat, breathing?

I feel pumped most of the day and even upon waking up. When I breath and pay attention, my chest feels pumped. I just got a physical and my bp is unchanged. Also, when doing cardio and working out, my endurance is way better than it was prior to taking this.

8. Any stimulant effect?

Just increased endurance and a better pump.

9. How long did it take for the 'pumped' effect to occur?

About 3 or 4 days. I noticed "harder wood" after about 2 days.

10. Would you say the 'pump' was directly workout related?

The best pumps are during a workout or after ingesting a post workout shake. However, the pump ligers most of the day.

11. How many days off have you had and did the 'pump' fade?

My chest still feels pumped and I haven't done chest in over a week.

12. Did the 'pump' increase vascularity, muscle size or both? do you have any measurements?

I look leaner and more vascular. The only thing I measure is weight and bodyfat and I am measuring that again this weekend. At the beginning of this NO2 trial, I was on a 3 week "cycle" of 1ad in my last couple of days, but my weight was 205.2 with a b.f. of 9.2%. I am now at 208.8 with a b.f. of about 9.1%. This is done with calipers so it's all "give or take".

13. Do you think the 'pump' was blood or water?

Blood. However, the water retention caused by creatine amplified this. I can't credit creatine because I never cycle off and I have been on it for over 4 months straight.

14. If you have stopped using, how long did the 'pump' last?

Haven't yet.

15. Did you notice any strength or endurance gains?

I usually go up in weight gradually so I'm not gonna bull**** on strength gains. Endurance is definitely up though.

16. If you noticed gains, how would you quantify them and are they maintainable?

I feel these gains are maintainable.

17. What is your body building experience? years? competitions?

10 years lifting, natural bodybuilder in the past and I have powerlifted. I'd like to remain anonymous, I'm sure you understand that.

18. What was your height, weight and BF% before NO2? After? Do you have pictures?

I have pics at the beginning and I am taking more this weekend. I may post them, but I just need time to black out the face.

19. What is your work out regime? days? sets? reps? did you change anything while taking NO2?

I didn't change much. I do all freeweights, no machines (squats, bench, deads, rows, etc...). Usually 4-5 days a week, maybe 1 or 2 cardo sessions (morning jog).

day 1: legs
day 2: rest
day 3: chest (shoulders every other week)
day 4: shoulders every other week
day 5: back
day 6: rest
day 7: arms (just bi's every other week)
day 8: rest or triceps e.o.w.
day 9 rest

I usually train by instinct, so a schedule is tough to knock down.

20. What is your kcal intake and ratio before, during, and after taking it?

About 3000per day give or take. My diet is as follows:

Meal 1: 25g Fiber and MRP (33g's protein, 19g's carbs)
Meal 2 (1.5 hrs later): 1/2 cup oatmeal, raisins, orange, banana, 20g's protein.
Meal 3 (3 hours): Chicken breast, 13 g's whey, 1 tbs flax.
Meal 4 (3 hrs): Tuna and mayo, 13 g's whey.
Meal 5 (1.5 hrs): 20 g's whey, 1tbsp flax
During/Post Workout: 30 g's dextrose, 4 g's protein
20 min's later: 20 g's whey, 6 g's creatine
Meal 6 (1 hr): salad with flax, chiken breast
Meal 7 (2 hrs): 10g's whey, 1/2c cottage cheese, Peanut butter, flax.

21. What other supplements did you take with NO2?

Fish oil (15 caps/day), whey, creatine.

22. What supplements do you normally take?

Just the staples.

23. have you ever used AS (including 1test)? How long ago? What and how much?

Just 1ad. Right before the NO2.

Thjis should answer most of those. Sorry for being so long-winded.

**K (same)** · 03-20-2002, 09:44 AM

If that ain't some marketing crap.........

**Dante B.** · 03-20-2002, 09:50 AM

Jonny, I respect the fact that you stuck around, and I will not add anything more to this post. Others can post their queries, if they wish. Again, my point of contest, is that I have no doubt that this product works, within a given context, but, my doubt lies as to whether or not the product works within the context of the companies claims. They do nothing, to address this. Much like Klein Becker products, the majority of which "work" within a certain context, but not beyond, the company has to prove that not only a product works, but that it works within the contexts claimed (Mag-10, by Biotest for example, "works", but it has not been proven to work within the contexts for which they claim; there are better options, and usually the best option goes to the companies that actually take the time to explain their product, since it can withstand logical scrutiny).

**Jonny** · 03-20-2002, 11:12 AM

Dante,

I agree and you have conducted yourself professionally throughout this whole conversation. Their claims are big, and I was just happy that it lived up to most of the claims. It's not a "magic pill", but in an era where night-time protein powders are a best selling item, it does offer a glimpse of hope...

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