x 2Hey Hola, would you reccomend these splits for a natural lifter?
i would be interested to know as well. it's great to see others' ideas, but hard to tell sometimes what is feasible given different circumstances. in the past i probably would have thought that this would be overtraining unless you slept like 10 hours a night and had possible supplementation. but if it not then that's even better, cuz it looks great and i'd like to try it. already doing basically the same split, but this has a little more balls to it with the number of sets and exercises.
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03-19-2007, 05:39 PM #31
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03-20-2007, 02:51 AM #32
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03-20-2007, 03:01 AM #33
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03-20-2007, 05:16 AM #34
"Oh W8, I've admired you for so long! The intensity you show in your videos is nothing short of amazing, and the resolve you've exhibited during your battle with low test levels is truly inspiring. In short, you are my hero. Please don't ever stop posting here on bb.com, or else I just may have to end it all"Here Lies the Rant
2005 - 2015
Negs from 1938-1945
-lenco
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03-20-2007, 07:27 AM #35
Don't hold your breath. I've attemted to give diet advice before, but its one of those areas where there are so many variables between people... of course you can make general guidelines and point them in the right direction, but ultimately I think they're going to have to figure it out for themselves based on their own body type/metabolism/goals/etc.
I've used about any set/rep scheme you can imagine... I've even done small cycles of 5x5 for squats/deads. I purposely didn't specify sets/reps on any of the routines so lifters can adjust the workouts to fit their experience level. A noob would most likely be better off using less total sets and a less advanced rep scheme, straight sets for example, while an advanced lifter could handle more volume and pryamiding/drop sets. However, I think EVERYONE should do 1-2 light sets (12-15 reps, not to failure) on each exercise to warmup before jumping into the heavier work sets.
All of these routines can be adjusted to any lifters experience level... which is why I only listed # of sets on 1 of them (and only because I already had it typed up like that for myself). IMO, exercises I recommend are pretty basic and can be performed by anyone. The only thing I would change from novice to intermediate to advanced is the number of sets you do for each exercise and the rep scheme.
How much rest are you taking between sets? For my first few exercises, when I'm concerned with my strength levels, I make sure to take enough rest to try and minimize strength drop as much as possible. I won't be using the same weight I could if I was 100% fresh, but I still manage to use decent weights even at the end of my workouts.
The example you used makes perfect sense to me. Not only are you going to be tired, but you're doing incline second which you'll already be weaker on. Taking longer rests between sets is about the only thing you can do besides switching up the order of your exercises.
I didn't particularly like Upper/Lower before and doing it the way you just described I would like it even less.
Yes, of course. Obviously supplements, more rest, and a better diet will allow you to recover faster, but like I've said before, the overall workload for these routines can be adjust to fit anyone. The only routine I listed sets for was meant to be an example of what I would use, not the norm or minimum for everyone.Audentis Fortuna Iuvat
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03-20-2007, 09:04 AM #36
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03-20-2007, 09:19 AM #37
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03-20-2007, 09:23 AM #38
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03-20-2007, 09:42 AM #39
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03-20-2007, 10:04 AM #40
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03-20-2007, 10:13 AM #41
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03-20-2007, 10:24 AM #42
- Join Date: Feb 2007
- Location: Miami, Florida, United States
- Age: 37
- Posts: 329
- Rep Power: 385
Guess what?!?!?!?! Being HYOOGE isn't that great! Most girls think it's gross, and most normal guys think it's overcompensating for something... But you go ahead and keep on bulking at 15% bodyfat, keep rowing untill your lats are so big you can't sit in a regular car seat, keep shrugging untill you don't have a neck anymore, have fun with it if you really enjoy it... But don't criticize and berate me because I lift for different reasons than you.
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03-20-2007, 11:01 AM #43
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03-20-2007, 11:41 AM #44
Its actually about 3/4 of a gallon. I go through 5 gallons a week.
4,000 on days I workout, about 3600 on off days. Good deal, let me know if you have any questions.
Fitting into a certain schedule was one of the factors, but there were others as well. I like coming up with new ideas for splits and trying them out. The differences between the routines should be pretty obvious to most people. The 4 day split was designed because I wanted to put a twist on a basic Upper/Lower split by pairing Vertical/Horizontal Push/Pull and vice versa, and I wanted to have a day for smaller bodyparts... arms, traps, calves, forearms.Audentis Fortuna Iuvat
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03-20-2007, 01:09 PM #45
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03-20-2007, 01:14 PM #46
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03-20-2007, 01:16 PM #47
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03-20-2007, 01:17 PM #48
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03-20-2007, 01:20 PM #49
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03-20-2007, 01:21 PM #50
- Join Date: Sep 2005
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Preach it... I'm a milk chugging convert myself. Regardless of W8's comment about cutting with milk, I've actually leaned out a bit since I've added gross amounts of milk to my daily diet. In fact, I'll even do *gasp* chocolate milk Not all the time, and I'm drinking skim white most of the time, but I don't see the down side.
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03-20-2007, 01:23 PM #51
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03-20-2007, 01:24 PM #52
- Join Date: Sep 2005
- Location: United States
- Age: 48
- Posts: 5,038
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So... what you are saying is that people can feel free to alter sets/reps exercises... in other words they can do a completely different routine? Lol, perhaps you just know that they won't follow it to the letter anyway. It's like trying to teach a cat tricks... it won't do what you say anyway, so why waste the time?
You guys could be twins!
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03-20-2007, 01:25 PM #53
- Join Date: Oct 2004
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03-20-2007, 01:27 PM #54
- Join Date: Sep 2005
- Location: United States
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Hola, you need a "results may vary" note in here somewhere. Now, I've had this kind of consistency for 16 years (granted there have been slight variations in my workouts/diet/desire to swim uphill because I didn't want to learn the right way to do something) and I have not made that kind of progress At some point I think it is fair to say that you are above average where building muscle is concerned.
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03-20-2007, 01:29 PM #55
I never really recommended sets/reps to begin with because what I would do just doesn't work for everyone. For exercise selection, when I said they weren't set in stone, I meant certain exercises could be swapped out for corresponding exercises. For example... Incline BB instead of Incline DB, Front Squats instead of Hack Squats, DB Flys instead of Machine Flys, etc. Small changes like that won't negatively effect the overall effectiveness of the routines, IMO.
Audentis Fortuna Iuvat
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03-20-2007, 01:32 PM #56
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03-20-2007, 01:38 PM #57
- Join Date: Sep 2005
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- Age: 48
- Posts: 5,038
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Ha... I must have subliminally noticed your title Anyway, it all looks like good info (or a good template to copy from).
I have found that designing workouts for others is far more... well, interesting to me than showing people what I do. From time to time I may give a brief "I'm currently doing something like this..." speech, but overall I enjoy making sure that the shoe fits. Of course, that takes time and I'm a very picky person as far as where I give my help. You, my friend are a giver.
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03-20-2007, 01:49 PM #58
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03-20-2007, 01:55 PM #59
Good stuff, HB.
Adjusting sets to fit lifters of diff't experience levels makes sense. Controlling volume, etc. You think newer lifters (novice to intermediate, let's say) "need" or "benefit" from several exercises per bodypart, as opposed to say, a main 'bodypart' movement plus an assistance exercise?
Say, for example, you're dealing w/ someone who can't handle 6 days of hard lifting each week. So you reduce the daily volume, but then they basically wind up doing a single set of 8 diff't exercises each day. Is that what you're saying?
*To clarify: some of your programs are clearly the programs of champions! No doubt about it. But if someone can't handle it, you cut it back and wind up w/ something quite different. I'm really just talking about some of the 5-6 day/wk. programs you listed. These volume issues dissipate quite a bit w/ push/pull and 3-4 day splits.Last edited by Protobuilder; 03-20-2007 at 01:57 PM.
[b]What most of you SHOULD be doing![/b]
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224
Madcow's 5x5 homepage:
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm
BEAST: "I've made my best size gains training with low reps (3-6). I don't agree with the notion that "low" reps build strength and "high" reps build size, there is a lot of crossover."
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03-20-2007, 02:27 PM #60
A few questions
1. At what stage would you recommend these routines? They look like very well thought out routines for a trainee with a good bit of muscle mass to work with, and trying to "sculpt" so to speak.
2. Some of them seem to have an aweful lot of exercises. Perhaps this is the way to go for an advanced trainee, but for beginners/intermediates, I would recommend cutting down on the exercises and bust out on the ones you do choose, hopeing the progress faster on an exercise-to-exercise basis. Would you agree?
3. What was your progression like on these programs? Meaning, how much stronger did you get on the exercises you did.
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