A Buzz Without the Alcohol

[pogue]

*** This thread is very outdated and most all of the products listed here are no longer made. Please be careful when using recreational substances and herbs. If you are looking to try out different natural and legal compounds to get high or give you a buzz do a search on google and I'm sure you'll come up with some. Do your research before trying them though. ***

If you're like me, you occasionally like to get a good buzz going on. The problem is that alcohol + bodybuilding don't really go together. However, there is a pretty good product called Renew-G that can give you a pretty good buzz.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/gat/renew.html

It's kind of expensive, but 3 caps will do you. It has DXM and some other goodies in it, so it'll last you awhile and won't give any negative catabolism and estrogen increases like alcohol will. It will last you a pretty long time as long as you aren't popping them everyday or something

Ergopharm has another product called Gabatropin that should also help give you a mild buzz. It's a nootropic product so it should help you relax. It apparently isn't on bodybuilding.com yet, but will probably show up here after too long.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ergo/ergo.htm

Avant Lab's Tranquili-G is a precursor to Methyl-4-GHB in the body and works well to help relax also. Avant Labs had to quit producing it due to some legal reasons, but you can still pick up what's left from here:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/al/tran.html

San's Neuroflow was a short lived product. That's probably because it contained a prescription drug in Europe called Periactim. This is a nootropic which helps with brain function. It might not get you high, but it probably will give you a good preworkout boost and might help you on a test.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/san/neuro.html

Finally, we have yohimbe. Be careful with this. I took about 600mg of yohimbe extract and started having hot and cold flashes among other weird symptoms. It's probably comperable to an E/C type stimulation, but has some weird effects when you increase the dose. Also, I believe if you take it with Vitamin C it increases absorption. You can pick up some 1200mg extract caps here.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sf/yo.html

Here's another one I thought I'd add, which is Kava. Kava is really good for relaxing or helping you sleep. It works really well in a tea, which you can probably buy at your local health food store or grocers. Here is a high quality Kava extract in the store though:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/pin/tran.html

PLEASE BE CAREFUL If you decide to use this stuff. It is not for idiots. More is not better. Don't overdose and then come crying to me because you took too much. Enjoy it, but don't abuse it.

Disclaimer:
This thread is for entertainment purposes only
DO NOT USE BEYOND THE RECOMMENDED DOSAGE. Neither me nor bodybuilding.com will be held liable for misuse or irresponsibility.

[NO MERCY]

which one is your favorite of the few?

[pogue]

Originally posted by NO MERCY
which one is your favorite of the few?

RenewG is pretty good. I haven't tried Phenibut yet, but I hope too soon.

[Czepiel]

nothing compares to a cold miller lite

[pu12en12g]

That renew-g **** looks damn good. I might try some for the hell of it. Does it really last 4 hours like the ad claims ?

[pogue]

Originally posted by pu12en12g
That renew-g **** looks damn good. I might try some for the hell of it. Does it really last 4 hours like the ad claims ?

Yeah, I meant to post that. It lasts about 4 hours. You get kind of jittery, more so than an ECA, but its manageable.

[pu12en12g]

What about "Liquid Relaxation" have you tried that ?

[thelast10]

damn 60$ for 90 caps, you might as well go buy the real thing lol

[CrazyTall]

Tranquili - G looks pretty good, but for $52.95 is it worth it??
I just need something to help me get to sleep after work ( I work 3-11) and I'm usually pretty geared up at 1:30AM and would idealy like to be asleep by 2AM so I don't sleep until noon and miss my whole morning. Do you think that's the product for me?

[SLY]

Neuroflow gave me the worst headaches. I still have the partial bottle in my cupboard. contiplating on tossing it.

[blinkboy99]

Originally posted by Czepiel
nothing compares to a cold miller lite

only 3.2 carbs and less than 100 cals a beer...id rather drink get up and do some cardio then pay those high prices...

[NO MERCY]

thanks pogue

[pogue]

Originally posted by pu12en12g
What about "Liquid Relaxation" have you tried that ?

No, the ingredients don't look so great to me.

Originally posted by thelast10
damn 60$ for 90 caps, you might as well go buy the real thing lol

Which real thing?

Originally posted by CrazyTall
Tranquili - G looks pretty good, but for $52.95 is it worth it??
I just need something to help me get to sleep after work ( I work 3-11) and I'm usually pretty geared up at 1:30AM and would idealy like to be asleep by 2AM so I don't sleep until noon and miss my whole morning. Do you think that's the product for me?

Might try some melatonin. It's much cheaper and it works very well for sleep.

Originally posted by blinkboy99
only 3.2 carbs and less than 100 cals a beer...id rather drink get up and do some cardio then pay those high prices...

Cardio is still not going to resolve all the other negative aspects of beer. It is cheaper and more available, but still worse for bbing purposes.

[wasntme]

i would feel much more comfortable having a cold beer occasionally than mess around with these chemicals.

[motiv8er]

Anybody else have some special recipes they'd like to share?

[intv]

P7 (a transdermal 7-keto/pregnenolone) relaxes me, not really a buzz, just relaxing like mild ******, but it does nothing for some people. If you don't mind skirting the law, ****** or marijuana are probably better buzz alternatives than alcohol, at least from a BB standpoint. I don't think 4-6 beers a couple of times a month would have much of a net impact on your physique, but most people who drink tend to binge, which has got to be bad.

[gstlynx]

PCP, ********, DXM all cause Olney's lesions and can really **** up your life.

Check out lycaeum.org FAQ on dissociatives


--------Quote from pogue-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/gat/renew.html

It's kind of expensive, but 3 caps will do you. It has DXM and some other goodies in it, so it'll last you awhile and won't give any negative catabolism and estrogen increases like alcohol will. It will last you a pretty long time as long as you aren't popping them everyday or something

----------Quote from pogue---------------------------------------------------


So this Renew is a really bad choice.

Gene

[blinkboy99]

any1 had GHB? what was it like and where did u get it?

[gstlynx]

In the good old days used to be able to make it myself, used to get liters of 4 liters of GBL for $160, which is like thousands of doses of GHB.

Now you can get a script for xyrem, sodium oxybate, which is GHB.

By the way, if any one does get GBL don't drink it straight, always react it to make GHB, GBL is much more addicting, damaging.

Gene

[pogue]

Originally posted by gstlynx
PCP, ********, DXM all cause Olney's lesions and can really **** up your life.

Check out lycaeum.org FAQ on dissociatives


--------Quote from pogue-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/gat/renew.html

It's kind of expensive, but 3 caps will do you. It has DXM and some other goodies in it, so it'll last you awhile and won't give any negative catabolism and estrogen increases like alcohol will. It will last you a pretty long time as long as you aren't popping them everyday or something

----------Quote from pogue---------------------------------------------------


So this Renew is a really bad choice.

Gene

Got any proof of this? DXM is an ingredient in most OTC cold medicine.

[pogue]

Originally posted by blinkboy99
any1 had GHB? what was it like and where did u get it?

I don't want this to turn into a discussion of illegal drugs. GHB is a schedulled substance.

[NPursuit]

Well as an experienced ex-recreational drug user I miss the euphoric feeling of certain drugs. I just popped 4 RenewG. I'll let you guys know how it works. If this stuff can get me buzzed it will get anyone buzzed. BTW you can get a smaller bottle from another site for $25 instead of blowing $60 on something that may do nothing for you. If I come on here posting gibberish later it means it worked well and I ate the whole bottle =).

[gstlynx]

------------Got any proof of this? DXM is an ingredient in most OTC cold medicine.------------

The dosing is totally different and makes any comparison irrelevant.

Well that's why I pointed to the lyceaum article

here is the link

http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs.old/syn...in.damage.html

[NPursuit]

Originally posted by gstlynx
------------Got any proof of this? DXM is an ingredient in most OTC cold medicine.------------

The dosing is totally different and makes any comparison irrelevant.

Well that's why I pointed to the lyceaum article

here is the link

http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs.old/syn...in.damage.html

Are you saying the amount of DXM is much higher in RenewG than OTC cold medicines?

[gstlynx]

Enough DXM to get you high is enough to cause damage, frequent or high dosing makes it worse.


--------quote from lycaeum faq

When NMDA antagonists were first studied they seemed like a dream come true: here were drugs which could block from part to all of the damage from strokes, head injury, hypoxia, polio, and a variety of other conditions. However, it seems that nature never gives something for nothing, and here too there was another side to the coin.

The dream ended when Olney et al. demonstrated that animals given high doses of dizocilpine (MK-801), a new dissociative used in research, showed curious vacuoles (essentially, tiny holes) in their brains. Specifically, the vacuoles showed up in the posterior cingulate cortex and retrosplenial cortex (see I.1 for an explanation of what these parts of the brain do). Further research showed that other indicators of damage were present, such as proliferation of microglia, secretion of a protein called HSP70 (Heat-Shock Protein 70), and expression of certain genes.

Since then, Onley's lesions, also known as NMDA Antagonist Neurotoxicity or NAN, have been discovered with ********, PCP, and dextrorphan (the metabolite of DXM), as well as a bunch of dissociative drugs you won't find outside of a research lab. PCP causes additional damage to the cerebellum and other areas, by the way.

-------------------end quote

I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade, it is just that this over the counter stuff is sold with impunity and people aren't necessarily aware that it can be dangerous.



Furthermore this company that makes RenewG is totally bogus, on the label they list L-Phenylalaline.

Which doesn't exist.

Neither does this-- Dimethylaminocethanol.

Their website, xxxRenewGxxx has a different formula on two different pages, depending on where you click.

So, you don't even know what you are getting.

Personally I hesitate to buy anything from a company that can't recognize the chemical compounds they are trying to sell me.

Gene

[pogue]

Originally posted by gstlynx
------------Got any proof of this? DXM is an ingredient in most OTC cold medicine.------------

The dosing is totally different and makes any comparison irrelevant.

Well that's why I pointed to the lyceaum article

here is the link

http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs.old/syn...in.damage.html

That link you provided has no references at all. I quick search of pubmed turned up 0 studies showing DXM has any neurotoxicity, or to cause any type of lesions at all. In fact, DXM is frequently shown to be a neuroprotector. I found numerous studies showing it to be beneficial for use in patients with neurological disorders such as Parkisons and Alzhemiers. I found numerous studies showing it to be beneficial in treating individuals addicted to opiates, *******, and alcohol. You can overdose on it on it, however. Its fairly obviously that it probably has an abuse potential and one should not take beyond the recommended dose of this product. But it is safe enough to be in OTC cold medicines, and obviously taken in high doses is not life threatening or damaging at all to the neurological system when used infrequently and not at extremely high (abusive) dosages.

Here is a much better FAQ with references and good information in it:

http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/rare_a...rugs/dext.html

Dextromethorphan. An overview of safety issues.

Bem JL, Peck R.

Pharma Division, F. Hoffmann-LaRoche Ltd, Basel, Switzerland.

Dextromethorphan is a highly effective and widely used nonopioid antitussive drug. As it has been in use for more than 30 years, a large body of clinical experience has been used to formulate a safety profile. An anthology of adverse drug events has been analysed, drawn both from published case records and a data base recording dextromethorphan-related adverse events spontaneously reported by physicians or pharmacists. The resulting safety profile indicates that adverse drug reactions are infrequent and usually not severe. The predominant symptoms are usually dose related and include neurological, cardiovascular and gastrointestinal disturbances. Particular safety concerns arise when monoamine oxidase inhibiting (MAOI) drugs and dextromethorphan are coadministered. In addition to adverse drug reactions, the safety profile of dextromethorphan is affected by episodic and sporadic abuse. In fact, abuse appeared to be the most significant hazard identified by analysis of spontaneous adverse event reporting. No evidence could be found that the well documented pharmacokinetic polymorphism observed with dextromethorphan is correlated with any clinically significant safety risk if it is used for short term treatment. In summary, the safety profile of dextromethorphan is reassuring, particularly relating to overdose in adults and children.

Dextromethorphan and neuromodulation: old drug coughs up new activities.

Tortella FC, Pellicano M, Bowery NG.

Dextromethorphan is one of the most widely used non-opioid cough suppressants, representing the active ingredient in several over-the-counter antitussive formulations. It does not possess the CNS pharmacology of other opiates in humans (i.e. analgesia, respiratory depression, abuse liability or psychotomimetic properties), but since the discovery in 1981 of high affinity recognition sites in brain for dextromethorphan a unique neuropharmacological profile has emerged for this relatively innocuous drug. Anticonvulsant and neuroprotective properties have been demonstrated, and treatment with dextromethorphan has been shown to improve the cerebrovascular and functional consequences of global cerebral ischemia. Frank Tortella and colleagues review the CNS pharmacology of dextromethorphan, its possible involvement with NMDA or sigma-receptors, and the potential clinical importance of this old 'new' drug.

Studies involving DXM as a neuroprotectant:

Dextromethorphan protects dopaminergic neurons against inflammation-mediated degeneration through inhibition of microglial activation.

Liu Y, Qin L, Li G, Zhang W, An L, Liu B, Hong JS.

Laboratory of Pharmacology and Chemistry, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 27709, USA.

Dextromethorphan is effective in the treatment of subacute methotrexate neurotoxicity.

Drachtman RA, Cole PD, Golden CB, James SJ, Melnyk S, Aisner J, Kamen BA.

Cancer Institute of New Jersey-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, New Brunswick 08816, USA. drachtri@umdnj.edu

Dextromethorphan inhibits ischemia-induced c-fos expression and delayed neuronal death in hippocampal neurons.

Bokesch PM, Marchand JE, Connelly CS, Wurm WH, Kream RM.

Department of Anesthesiology, Tufts University School of Medicine, New England Medical Center, Boston, Massachusetts 02111.

Dextromethorphan antagonizes the acute depletion of brain serotonin by p-chloroamphetamine and H75/12 in rats.

Henderson MG, Fuller RW.

Lilly Research Laboratories, Eli Lilly and Company, Indianapolis, IN 46285.

[pogue]

Originally posted by gstlynx
Furthermore this company that makes RenewG is totally bogus, on the label they list L-Phenylalaline.

Which doesn't exist.

Neither does this-- Dimethylaminocethanol.

Their website, xxxRenewGxxx has a different formula on two different pages, depending on where you click.

So, you don't even know what you are getting.

Personally I hesitate to buy anything from a company that can't recognize the chemical compounds they are trying to sell me.

Gene

Here is a previous post where I broke down the ingredients in RenewG to explain what each of them are and what they do.

I was still curious, so I decided to find out what all the ingredients are in this.

Proprietery Blend: 5-Methoxytryptamine, Dextromethorphan Hydrobromide, L-Phenylephrine hcl, Gamma-Aminobutryc Acid, 5-Hydroxytryptophan, L-Phenylalaline, Kava lactones

5-Methoxytryptamine
MELATONIN is synthetic and is pharmaceutical grade. It is known as N-ACETLY-5-METHOXYTRYPTAMINE.
It is naturally occurring chemical substance (hormone) present in a number of foods including rice, barley, corn & meat. It is produced in the Pineal Gland, which regulates the body's biological clock's natural wake / sleep cycle.

Dextromethorphan Hydrobromide
DXM, or dextromethorphan, is a cough suppressant drug found in cough syrups and cough medicines. It can be used recreationally, but there are risks.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/dxm_faq.shtml

L-Phenylephrine hcl
L-Phenylephrine hcl is synthetic adrenalin which gives you a beneficial source of energy and clarity of thinking. (This might cause you to test positive for amphetamines on a drug test, according to some drug testing products). Couldn't find very much about this.

Gamma-Aminobutryc Acid
gamma-Aminobutyric acid (GABA) is the product of a biochemical decarboxylation reaction of glutamic acid by the vitamin pyridoxal. GABA serves as a inhibitory neurotransmitter to block the transmission of an impulse from one cell to another in the central nervous system. Medically, GABA has been used to treat both epilepsy and hypertension where it is thought to induce tranquility in individuals who have a high activity of manic behavior and acute agitation.

5-Hydroxytryptophan aka 5HTP
5-Hydroxytryptophan (5- HTP) is the intermediate metabolite of the essential amino acid L-tryptophan (LT) in the biosynthesis of serotonin. Intestinal absorption of 5-HTP does not require the presence of a transport molecule, and is not affected by the presence of other amino acids; therefore it may be taken with meals without reducing its effectiveness. Unlike LT, 5-HTP cannot be shunted into niacin or protein production. Therapeutic use of 5-HTP bypasses the conversion of LT into 5-HTP by the enzyme tryptophan hydroxylase, which is the rate-limiting step in the synthesis of serotonin. 5-HTP is well absorbed from an oral dose, with about 70 percent ending up in the bloodstream. It easily crosses the blood-brain barrier and effectively increases central nervous system (CNS) synthesis of serotonin. In the CNS, serotonin levels have been implicated in the regulation of sleep, depression, anxiety, aggression, appetite, temperature, sexual behavior, and pain sensation. Therapeutic administration of 5-HTP has been shown to be effective in treating a wide variety of conditions, including depression, fibromyalgia, insomnia, binge eating associated with obesity, chronic headaches, and insomnia. (Altern Med Rev 1998;3(4):271-280)

L-Phenylalaline
Used to help depression, low energy, low drive & motivation, aid dieting, & to recover from speed & ******* addiction.

Fifty to seventy-five percent of L-Phenylalanine is converted to L-Tyrosine in your liver so all that applies to tyrosine applies to L-Phenylalanine.

The rest of L-Phenylalanine is converted to other products which account for it having some additional effects beyond those of tyrosine. One other product is the neurotransmitter phenylethylamine (PEA) which has Ritalin, amphetamine-like effects, which means it is mentally & physically stimulating. Studies have shown some depressed people have lower levels of PEA. These people will need phenylalanine to help with their depression.

Besides producing norepinephrine, dopamine, epinephrine, adrenaline & thyroid, phenylalanine is also a constituent of important brain neuropeptides, ****tostatin, vasopressin, melanotropin, ACTH, substance P, encephalin, vasoactive intestinal peptide, angiotensin II, & cholecystokinins.

Because of its cholecystokinin effect, PA can have appetite suppressing benefits.

Kava lactones
The kava-lactones, sometimes referred to as kava-pyrones, are important active constituents in kava herbal extracts. High-quality kava rhizome contains 5.5�8.3% kava-lactones. Medicinal extracts used in Europe contain 30�70% kava-lactones. Kava-lactones may have antianxiety, mild analgesic (pain-relieving), muscle-relaxing, and anticonvulsant effects. Some researchers speculate that kava may directly influence the limbic system, the ancient part of the brain associated with emotions and other brain activities. Double blind studies have validated the effectiveness of kava for people with anxiety, including menopausal women.

According to blissherbs.com this product seems to go on and off the market frequently, so I'm not sure the legal status of it.

[NPursuit]

Poque do you think adding any Melatonin or 5-htp to the mix would help it's effects, or is there anything else you can think of to help it move along?

[pogue]

Originally posted by NPursuit
Poque do you think adding any Melatonin or 5-htp to the mix would help it's effects, or is there anything else you can think of to help it move along?

Possibly ephedrine and caffeine, but start out with low doses if you add anything else. Melatonin and 5HTP are already in the mix, so I don't think that would help. Then of course theres alcohol, and some other illicit substances.

[souped_up]

Originally posted by wasntme
i would feel much more comfortable having a cold beer occasionally than mess around with these chemicals.

LOL exactly. I can't believe he is recommending DXM. I read that stuff will give you lesions on your brain. Not This chemical is a dissociative the MOST dangerous drugs around. And the high from DXM sucks too if you ever did it in large doses like robitussin.