bb.com ph's?

[Beejis60]

english???

That's about as english as I can say.... Well, lets try this: the ketone (the 6-member ring on the far left; double bond to the oxygen) in turinabol is only different from halodrol's alcohol (the 6-member ring on the far left; single bond to the hydroxy group). That carbon that has the ketone or alcohol on it is MASSIVELY different in both compounds.
For one, the spacial arrangement around the carbon is different. In turinabol, that carbon is a flat planar molecule all through that six-member ring making it conjugated (very stable). In halodrol, you are disrupting the conjugation (by making the carbon not planar; it has that hyroxyl group coming out of the plane of your computer monitor, but there's a hydrogen going away from the plane of your comp monitor) therefore making the molecule less stable. Secondly, having that hydroxyl group facing up means that an enzyme or something whatever else will handle this compound totally different or possibly not at all. Here are the differences between the two in 3-D space (just pay attention to the far left of the molecule):

Notice how that the left of the ring is angled and tilted in a different way? Just a little bit of change is enough for enzymes not to pick up a certain molecule or drug. Thus the reason for me wanting to know through which metabolic pathway(s) does this go through to oxidize the alcohol to the ketone.

[Nailbomb9]

How do you know that the alcohol gets oxidized to a ketone? Through which metabolic pathway does it travel? Just because the strutures are the same except for the beta carbon doesn't mean that they do the same things. You have an sp3 hybrid carbon vs an sp2 hybrid carbon which cause steric (space) problems with facial attacks.

Dude, after reading that the only thing that came to my mind was "REAL MAN OF GENIOUS". This Bud's for you!!!

[CharlotteFreak]

what all has to be bought in order to run a cycle of the methyl vol?

Check it: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ight=superdrol

[samsam12341]

Propadrol looks pretty badass to stack with Hermadrol. Hermadrol is already not too liver toxic so when you stack a non methyl with it your gains will like double... Looks like a really insane not liver crap stack.

Sam

[Beejis60]

Dude, after reading that the only thing that came to my mind was "REAL MAN OF GENIOUS". This Bud's for you!!!

Haha, hardly; thanks though! Of all crap beers, I prefer Miller Shyte or PBR BABY!

[phant0m]

hemadrol isnt that toxic to the liver? I hear tren-X is non methyl and sick

[Steve0178]

hmmm... well i was looking at them on another website and all the EST products def are clones.. from what i could see.. i dont see how there legal

They are legal because they were never banned! They were just discontinued by the original makers because of legal issues that would occur had they not discontinued them.

Here is a current list of what is banned:
On October 22, 2004, the president signed the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004 into law. The bill was written to become effective 90 days after its signing making the effective date of the ban January 20, 2005.
The following is a copy of the bill that gives a breakdown on the chemical descriptions on what is banned:
108th CONGRESS
2d Session
S. 2195
To amend the Controlled Substances Act to clarify the definition of anabolic steroids and to provide for research and education activities relating to steroids and steroid precursors.
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
March 11, 2004
Mr. BIDEN (for himself, Mr. HATCH, Mr. GRASSLEY, Mr. HARKIN, Mr. STEVENS, Mr. MCCAIN, Mr. NELSON of Florida, Mrs. FEINSTEIN, Mr. ALLEN, and Ms. MURKOWSKI) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

A BILL
To amend the Controlled Substances Act to clarify the definition of anabolic steroids and to provide for research and education activities relating to steroids and steroid precursors.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004'.
SEC. 2. AMENDMENTS TO THE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES ACT.
(a) DEFINITIONS- Section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802) is amended--
(1) in paragraph (41)--
(A) by realigning the margin so as to align with paragraph (40); and
(B) by striking subparagraph (A) and inserting the following:
`(A) The term `anabolic steroid' means any drug or hormonal substance, chemically and pharmacologically related to testosterone (other than estrogens, progestins, corticosteroids, and dehydroepiandrosterone), and includes--
`(i) androstanediol--
`(I) 3b,17b-dihydroxy-5a-androstane; and
`(II) 3a,17b-dihydroxy-5a-androstane;
`(ii) androstanedione (5a-androstan-3,17-dione);
`(iii) androstenediol--
`(I) 1-androstenediol (3b,17b-dihydroxy-5a-androst-1-ene);
`(II) 1-androstenediol (3a,17b-dihydroxy-5a-androst-1-ene);
`(III) 4-androstenediol (3b,17b-dihydroxy-androst-4-ene); and
`(IV) 5-androstenediol (3b,17b-dihydroxy-androst-5-ene);
`(iv) androstenedione--
`(I) 1-androstenedione ([5a]-androst-1-en-3,17-dione);
`(II) 4-androstenedione (androst-4-en-3,17-dione); and
`(III) 5-androstenedione (androst-5-en-3,17-dione);
`(v) bolasterone (7a,17a-dimethyl-17b-hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);
`(vi) boldenone (17b-hydroxyandrost-1,4,-diene-3-one);
`(vii) calusterone (7b,17a-dimethyl-17b-hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);
`(viii) clostebol (4-chloro-17b-hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);
`(ix) dehydrochloromethyltestosterone (4-chloro-17b-hydroxy-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-dien-3-one);
`(x) *1-dihydrotestosterone (a.k.a. `1-testosterone') (17b-hydroxy-5a-androst-1-en-3-one);
`(xi) 4-dihydrotestosterone (17b-hydroxy-androstan-3-one);
`(xii) drostanolone (17b-hydroxy-2a-methyl-5a-androstan-3-one);
`(xiii) ethylestrenol (17a-ethyl-17b-hydroxyestr-4-ene);
`(xiv) fluoxymesterone (9-fluoro-17a-methyl-11b,17b-dihydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);
`(xv) formebolone (2-formyl-17a-methyl-11a,17b-dihydroxyandrost-1,4-dien-3-one);
`(xvi) furazabol (17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyandrostano[2,3-c]-furazan);
`(xvii) 13a-ethyl-17a-hydroxygon-4-en-3-one;
`(xviii) 4-hydroxytestosterone (4,17b-dihydroxy-androst-4-en-3-one);
`(xix) 4-hydroxy-19-nortestosterone (4,17b-dihydroxy-estr-4-en-3-one);
`(xx) mestanolone (17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one);
`(xxi) mesterolone (1a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-[5a]-androstan-3-one);
`(xxii) methandienone (17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyandrost-1,4-dien-3-one);
`(xxiii) methandriol (17a-methyl-3b,17b-dihydroxyandrost-5-ene);
`(xxiv) methenolone (1-methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androst-1-en-3-one);
`(xxv) methyltestosterone (17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);
`(xxvi) mibolerone (7a,17a-dimethyl-17b-hydroxyestr-4-en-3-one);
`(xxvii) 17a-methyl-*1-dihydrotestosterone (17b-hydroxy-17a-methyl-5a-androst-1-en-3-one) (a.k.a. `17-a-methyl-1-testosterone');
`(xxviii) nandrolone (17b-hydroxyestr-4-en-3-one);
`(xxix) norandrostenediol--
`(I) 19-nor-4-androstenediol (3b, 17b-dihydroxyestr-4-ene);
`(II) 19-nor-4-androstenediol (3a, 17b-dihydroxyestr-4-ene);
`(III) 19-nor-5-androstenediol (3b, 17b-dihydroxyestr-5-ene); and
`(IV) 19-nor-5-androstenediol (3a, 17b-dihydroxyestr-5-ene);
`(xxx) norandrostenedione--
`(I) 19-nor-4-androstenedione (estr-4-en-3,17-dione); and
`(II) 19-nor-5-androstenedione (estr-5-en-3,17-dione;
`(xxxi) norbolethone (13b,17a-diethyl-17b-hydroxygon-4-en-3-one);
`(xxxii) norclostebol (4-chloro-17b-hydroxyestr-4-en-3-one);
`(xxxiii) norethandrolone (17a-ethyl-17b-hydroxyestr-4-en-3-one);
`(xxxiv) oxandrolone (17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-2-oxa-[5a]-androstan-3-one);
`(xxxv) oxymesterone (17a-methyl-4,17b-dihydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);
`(xxxvi) oxymetholone (17a-methyl-2-hydroxymethylene-17b-hydroxy-[5a]-androstan-3-one);
`(xxxvii) stanozolol (17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-[5a]-androst-2-eno[3,2-c]-pyrazole);
`(xxxviii) stenbolone (17b-hydroxy-2-methyl-[5a]-androst-1-en-3-one);
`(xxxix) testolactone (13-hydroxy-3-oxo-13,17-secoandrosta-1,4-dien-17-oic acid lactone);
`(xl) testosterone (17b-hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one);
`(xli) tetrahydrogestrinone (13b,17a-diethyl-17b-hydroxygon-4,9,11-trien-3-one);
`(xlii) trenbolone (17b-hydroxyestr-4,9,11-trien-3-one); and
`(xliii) any salt, ester, or ether of a drug or substance described in this paragraph.'; and
(2) in paragraph (44), by inserting `anabolic steroids,' after `marihuana,'.
(b) AUTHORITY AND CRITERIA FOR CLASSIFICATION- Section 201(g) of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 811(g)) is amended--
(1) in paragraph (1), by striking `substance from a schedule if such substance' and inserting `drug which contains a controlled substance from the application of titles II and III of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act (21 U.S.C. 802 et seq.) if such drug'; and
(2) in paragraph (3), by adding at the end the following:
`(C) Upon the recommendation of the Secretary of Health and Human Services, a compound, mixture, or preparation which contains any anabolic steroid, which is intended for administration to a human being or an animal, and which, because of its concentration, preparation, formulation or delivery system, does not present any significant potential for abuse.'.
(c) ANABOLIC STEROIDS CONTROL ACT- Section 1903 of the Anabolic Steroids Control Act of 1990 (Public Law 101-647) is amended--
(1) by striking subsection (a); and
(2) by redesignating subsections (b) and (c) as subsections (a) and (b), respectively.
SEC. 3. SENTENCING COMMISSION GUIDELINES.
The United States Sentencing Commission shall--
(1) review the Federal sentencing guidelines with respect to offenses involving anabolic steroids;
(2) consider amending the Federal sentencing guidelines to provide for increased penalties with respect to offenses involving anabolic steroids in a manner that reflects the seriousness of such offenses and the need to deter anabolic steroid trafficking and use; and
(3) take such other action that the Commission considers necessary to carry out this section.
SEC. 4. PREVENTION AND EDUCATION PROGRAMS.
(a) IN GENERAL- The Secretary of Health and Human Services (referred to in this Act as the `Secretary') shall award grants to public and nonprofit private entities to enable such entities to carry out science-based education programs in elementary and secondary schools to highlight the harmful effects of anabolic steroids.
(b) ELIGIBILITY-
(1) APPLICATION- To be eligible for grants under subsection (a), an entity shall prepare and submit to the Secretary an application at such time, in such manner, and containing such information as the Secretary may require.
(2) PREFERENCE- In awarding grants under subsection (a), the Secretary shall give preference to applicants that intend to use grant funds to carry out programs based on--
(A) the Athletes Training and Learning to Avoid Steroids program;
(B) the Athletes Targeting Healthy Exercise and Nutrition Alternatives program; and
(C) other programs determined to be effective by the National Institute on Drug Abuse.
(c) USE OF FUNDS- Amounts received under a grant under subsection (a) shall be used primarily for education programs that will directly communicate with teachers, principals, coaches, as well as elementary and secondary school children concerning the harmful effects of anabolic steroids.
(d) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS- There is authorized to be appropriated to carry out this section, $15,000,000 for each of fiscal years 2005 through 2010.
SEC. 5. NATIONAL SURVEY ON DRUG USE AND HEALTH.

[samsam12341]

hemadrol isnt that toxic to the liver? I hear tren-X is non methyl and sick

Hermadrol is a very light methyl. On a scale 1 to 10 I personally, among othes, would rate it at a 4 while superdrol is at around an 8.5 and M1T at a 10. Havoc is a very light methyl aswell. I am not a fan of tren-x but some people seem to like it.

Sam

[phant0m]

how are the gains on hemadrol and how will you have to dose it, just curious because a friend at my old gym was on it and his strength increased ALOT, looks like its good for cutting though

[Beejis60]

Steve, a lot of those were already ban. Were they just kinda renewing the document of controlled substances that are classified and not just updating it?

[Steve0178]

Steve, a lot of those were already ban. Were they just kinda renewing the document of controlled substances that are classified and not just updating it?

I supose so. When they write another ban list im sure it will inlude all those currently under ban. So if something was already banned then it would have been included in there also.

[williamfox02]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/est/bol.html

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/est/hem.html

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/est/methyl.html

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/est/phera.html

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/est/prop.html

**** (not familiar with Propadrol.. anyone want to tackle it ?) ****

what are the risks when taking clones like these? or the other ones out there?

[VaughnTrue]

same as the risk of taking an original