First Do No Harm(except when it comes to transgendered people)

[ThePD]

I agree something like surgery should be a last resort. And even hormones are pretty extreme. And also gender affirming care doesn't just mean hormones and surgery. It can be as simple as identifying as the other gender and wearing different clothes. There are a lot of studies showing it does work and helps. People are on prescription drugs because they help. It seems you are against the idea of medicine in general. The alternative methods for trans care, such as conversion therapy, failed miserably.

I don't see it as a failure that people are taking meds. The meds are supposed to help them, and data shows they do. I bet if we had better social policies, we could cut a lot of depression rates, but muh capitalism and profits so this is where we are at.

Most children that think they are trans but are not transitioned, end up growing up and out of thinking they are trans. They end up living a normal life without altering mind or body. When transitioned suicidality does not change any attributable amount.

Social programs are not going to change depression. The link to mental health and diet is obvious. Ultra processed foods needs to be avoided, health needs to be promoted.

[uneducated]

Most children that think they are trans but are not transitioned, end up growing up and out of thinking they are trans. They end up living a normal life without altering mind or body. When transitioned suicidality does not change any attributable amount.

Social programs are not going to change depression. The link to mental health and diet is obvious. Ultra processed foods needs to be avoided, health needs to be promoted.

And that makes sense. But most who transition also do not regret it. Transitioning is an extreme option for extreme cases. Suicidality does change overall with GAC being available.

[ThePD]

You want to protect women and children by taking away their basic rights and healthcare. Checks out.

Transitioning a child isnt "healthcare" you sick fvk

[J.L.C.]

“it isn’t that sharp yet” sounds like it isn’t science at all. If there is a clear, objective, biological difference between a trans person and a cis person then point to it. And I’m not saying there is no difference, I’m saying that if there is then we need to clearly establish the metrics we use to diagnose it. That will help us avoid pushing interventions on people who don’t need it and who will almost certainly be harmed from it. But of course…that isn’t the goal at all. The goal is destruction of normalcy and order. That’s why there are 50+ and counting genders, along with non-binary, asexual, and all the other ridiculousness. Again, I’m not saying that there isn’t a difference. But the legit trans identity is being used as a pawn to push further deterioration of society. And again, I don’t have hate in my heart for trans people. However, I do have a problem with the extremely harmful movement that is pushing this insanity. Until you, bodhy, and others understand the difference in how myself and others like me view this topic then you will never comprehend what we’re saying. You and I both want the same thing. Improved health for all youth and all people. It’s just that I see this push of insanity as harmful to the general population(and trans community), and I can differentiate between a person and a movement. It seems that many on the left get so caught up in the movement that they accept absolutely anything being put forward by it, even if it is harmful medical experiments on children. It’s basically a cult. But I’ve seen you change stances on topics over the years so I expect you will change on this as well at some point. I’m not so sure about some of the others here though.

Upon whom are interventions bring pushed?

Not everyone agrees that acceptance = promotion/pushing.

You seem to frame the argument with hyperbole such that as soon as a child expresses anything resembling gender questioning they are surgically altered and put on hormones, against their (and their parents') will.

You mention much better treatments for gender dysphoria. What are they? How effective are they?

[J.L.C.]

Most children that think they are trans but are not transitioned, end up growing up and out of thinking they are trans. They end up living a normal life without altering mind or body. When transitioned suicidality does not change any attributable amount.

Social programs are not going to change depression. The link to mental health and diet is obvious. Ultra processed foods needs to be avoided, health needs to be promoted.

Do you think that's why most people and their care providers wait years (25 on average) before pursuing medical (pharmaceutical, surgical) intervention?

[uneducated]

Transitioning a child isnt "healthcare" you sick fvk

The AMA disagrees with you.

[ThePD]

And that makes sense. But most who transition also do not regret it. Transitioning is an extreme option for extreme cases. Suicidality does change overall with GAC being available.

https://www.heritage.org/gender/comm...e-the-evidence

"Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers."

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.e...press-release/

Doesnt seem like a mentally stable group of people. If people actually cared about these people instead of feeding into their delusion possibly they would lead happier lives.

Also leave children alone! You dont think social contagion is a thing?

[uneducated]

https://www.heritage.org/gender/comm...e-the-evidence

"Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers."

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.e...press-release/

Doesnt seem like a mentally stable group of people. If people actually cared about these people instead of feeding into their delusion possibly they would lead happier lives.

Also leave children alone! You dont think social contagion is a thing?

It's not to comparable peers. You're linking a far right think tank, and they are presenting biased information to you. Go look at what the actual medical community at large is saying.



This doctor debunks a lot of the crap in that page you linked. The guy who wrote your article is a well known hardcore anti LGBT zealot and the psychiatrist he cites is a 90 year old well known anti trans scientist who has been accused of misrepresenting research by multiple scientists.

[J.L.C.]

https://www.heritage.org/gender/comm...e-the-evidence

"Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers."

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.e...press-release/

Doesnt seem like a mentally stable group of people. If people actually cared about these people instead of feeding into their delusion possibly they would lead happier lives.

Also leave children alone! You dont think social contagion is a thing?

People without gender dysphoria aren't comparable peers.

[jtaylor2010]

Well the world renowned neurobiologist at Stanford disagrees with you, but ok.

Did you consider the other stuff I said and linked? Did you ask yourself what you would do if your kid insisted he or she was trans?

If I see evidence showing this chit is more harmful than helpful, then obviously I will withdraw my support for it. But I am seeing the opposite from the studies and from so many lived experiences of trans people shared. Are there people who regret it? Yeah. But on average, it seems to work a lot more than it doesn't. Should we find a way to really make sure who is and isn't trans? Absolutely. If we could really test and ID it, that would be very useful for preventing those cases of regret.

I’ve already given you evidence and shown that experts in many first world countries(with better healthcare outcomes) are reversing course due to what they are seeing on the frontlines. A single neurobiologist at an extremely leftist school isn’t going to convince me all of those other people and organizations are wrong.

As far as the question about my kid, you are simply attempting to appeal to emotion when this isn’t an emotional issue. I already stated I don’t have any hatred for trans people, which you seem to presume and hope to breakthrough via the “what if you kid…” question. If I know someone who gets murdered with a gun it doesn’t change my view on gun control because basing decisions on emotions isn’t the optimal way to traverse the world(or at least not let the emotions disproportionately weigh in decisions). The same applies here. If my kid said they were trans it wouldn’t make me suddenly change my views on the best way to care for transgender people, and in today’s world I especially wouldn’t just accept their statement. Even in a conservative area my kids already know people who have tried on the trans thing as an identity and it didn’t last long at all. Because teens go through all sorts of phases. Luckily they weren’t somewhere like California where their teachers and counselors poured gas on that at the first sign of the identity, otherwise they’d likely be much worse off. And that part ties into the aspect we agree with…better health for everyone.

[uneducated]

I’ve already given you evidence and shown that experts in many first world countries(with better healthcare outcomes) are reversing course due to what they are seeing on the frontlines. A single neurobiologist at an extremely leftist school isn’t going to convince me all of those other people and organizations are wrong.

As far as the question about my kid, you are simply attempting to appeal to emotion when this isn’t an emotional issue. I already stated I don’t have any hatred for trans people, which you seem to presume and hope to breakthrough via the “what if you kid…” question. If I know someone who gets murdered with a gun it doesn’t change my view on gun control because basing decisions on emotions isn’t the optimal way to traverse the world(or at least not let the emotions disproportionately weigh in decisions). The same applies here. If my kid said they were trans it wouldn’t make me suddenly change my views on the best way to care for transgender people, and in today’s world I especially wouldn’t just accept their statement. Even in a conservative area my kids already know people who have tried on the trans thing as an identity and it didn’t last long at all. Because teens go through all sorts of phases. Luckily they weren’t somewhere like California where their teachers and counselors poured gas on that at the first sign of the identity, otherwise they’d likely be much worse off. And that part ties into the aspect we agree with…better health for everyone.

But the majority of American medical associations still stand by GAC. It's not just that one scientist.

You're not considering the hypothetical that I asked. It isn't an appeal to emotion. The goal is for you to develop some degree of understanding for where these parents are coming from. It is interesting you refused to consider and answer the question.

[freeheeler]

It's not to comparable peers. You're linking a far right think tank, and they are presenting biased information to you. Go look at what the actual medical community at large is saying.



This doctor debunks a lot of the crap in that page you linked. The guy who wrote your article is a well known hardcore anti LGBT zealot and the psychiatrist he cites is a 90 year old well known anti trans scientist who has been accused of misrepresenting research by multiple scientists.

LoL Wincel at “The actual medical community” that are most likely **** scared to be blacklisted and fired for not agreeing with the far left. Not surprising that you are all far this sickness given your upbringing

[uneducated]

LoL Wincel at “The actual medical community” that are most likely **** scared to be blacklisted and fired for not agreeing with the far left. Not surprising that you are all far this sickness given your upbringing

Posts like this are why reasoned debate is so difficult here. How do the mods expect me to respond to this troglodyte? Notice that he doesn't even know the difference between "for" and "far". Imagine being 63 freaking years old and acting like this.

Back to the nursing home, boomer.

Clearly the left hasn't done a great job "canceling" bigots since there is still so much rampant bigotry and transphobia out there, including those cases listed in this:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/09/12/...communities-us

But I am sure you are the real victims...

[DevilMayRage]

Posts like this are why reasoned debate is so difficult here. How do the mods expect me to respond to this troglodyte? Notice that he doesn't even know the difference between "for" and "far". Imagine being 63 freaking years old and acting like this.

Please rope...just find a way to record and upload to the MISC

We deserve it after putting up with you all this time.

Your mere existence is a plague.

[uneducated]

Please rope...just find a way to record and upload to the MISC

We deserve it after putting up with you all this time.

Your mere existence is a plague.

This contributes nothing to the discussion.

Cry more.

[DevilMayRage]

This contributes nothing to the discussion.

Cry more.

I disagree....MISC is waiting Wincel.

Just stop by Home Depot for supplies, make it a special day where you finally crawl from the basement.

[Bodhy]

This contributes nothing to the discussion.

Cry more.

Don't worry, I'm telling on him for recommending that to you. He's so told on.

[DevilMayRage]

Don't worry, I'm telling on him for recommending that to you. He's so told on.

Plenty of rope to go around

[Bushmaster]

Posts like this are why reasoned debate is so difficult here. How do the mods expect me to respond to this troglodyte? Notice that he doesn't even know the difference between "for" and "far". Imagine being 63 freaking years old and acting like this.

Back to the nursing home, boomer.

Here's a crazy thought wincel.. Instead of sniveling about how the mods want you to respond, you could always take the hint from the 993 times they sent your worthless homebound drain on society ass packing and stay TF gone.

[uneducated]

Here's a crazy thought wincel.. Instead of sniveling about how the mods want you to respond, you could always take the hint from the 993 times they sent your worthless homebound drain on society ass packing and stay TF gone.

Why? So you can just spout bs to people who agree with you? Is that fun for you?

[Bushmaster]

Why? So you can just spout bs to people who agree with you? Is that fun for you?

No.. It's just that your presence here is a blight. A festering, puss oozing sore on the ass of the internet. You are a worthless homebound drain on society who contributes nothing to this forum OR the rest of the world.

[uneducated]

No.. It's just that your presence here is a blight. A festering, puss oozing sore on the ass of the internet. You are a worthless homebound drain on society who contributes nothing to this forum OR the rest of the world.

That's just your opinion. And maybe you should make a separate thread about that. Unless your goal is to erase this post.

It's not to comparable peers. You're linking a far right think tank, and they are presenting biased information to you. Go look at what the actual medical community at large is saying.



This doctor debunks a lot of the crap in that page you linked. The guy who wrote your article is a well known hardcore anti LGBT zealot and the psychiatrist he cites is a 90 year old well known anti trans scientist who has been accused of misrepresenting research by multiple scientists.

[Bushmaster]

That's just your opinion. And maybe you should make a separate thread about that. Unless your goal is to erase this post.

You've got at least one other person ITT telling you to rope, and I'm betting we could easily find more.

[uneducated]

You've got at least one other person ITT telling you to rope, and I'm betting we could easily find more.

That means I am doing something right.

[Bushmaster]

That means I am doing something right.

Then it's not "just" my opinion.. is it. But you've never done anything right in your entire life wincel.

Like I said you are a worthless homebound drain on society who contributes nothing to this forum OR the rest of the world.

But you do math and love trannies though, so that's nice.

[jtaylor2010]

LoL Wincel at “The actual medical community” that are most likely **** scared to be blacklisted and fired for not agreeing with the far left. Not surprising that you are all far this sickness given your upbringing

The same medical community that recommends injecting your 1 year old with mRNA injections every year. The same medical community that gives millions of children amphetamines every day.



Yeah….that medical community.

[jtaylor2010]

Don't worry, I'm telling on him for recommending that to you. He's so told on.

I definitely agree it’s terrible and you won’t ever see my saying those types of things to people or condoning it….. but it’s not like Wincel hasn’t done that dozens of times himself. Did you also tell on him?

Luckily he seems to be having a good day today though, so we’ll just enjoy it while we can.

[Bushmaster]

I definitely agree it’s terrible and you won’t ever see my saying those types of things to people or condoning it….. but it’s not like Wincel hasn’t done that dozens of times himself. Did you also tell on him?

Wincel is on record right here in this very discussion - along with probably hundreds of others saying anti-vaxxers should die.

Let somebody tell him that he should join them though, and suddenly he and Bodhy get their victim on and whine about how that contributes nothing to the discussion.

Luckily he seems to be having a good day today though, so we’ll just enjoy it while we can.

He'll be wishing you were dead by the end of the day.

[Anachron]

Don't worry, I'm telling on him for recommending that to you. He's so told on.

Did you also tell on wincel for any of the numerous times he told me to "kill myself"?

[jtaylor2010]

Did you also tell on wincel for any of the numerous times he told me to "kill myself"?

Not only has he not told on him, he repeatedly says that wincel is one of the most reasonable posters around.