Feeling depressed

[Queggy]

I’ve recently got back into training absolutely loving it again, thing we’re going good getting all my strength back finally. And both of my shoulders are becoming painful during push workouts, especially exercises like chest flys, bench press, shoulder press.

I really don’t want to have to stop training, is there any way around this different types of exercises for push movements, like press ups, lower weight etc?

Has anyone had a similar issue and found a solution other than just stopping training

Edit: also I am 28 not 54 unsure why it says I’m 54 lol

[air2fakie]

Do an appropriate workout (volume, intensity, etc.) for your level.

[SuicideGripMe]

It would help to see your routine and your form... Your routine may be too press dominant and your form might be off... putting extra stress on the tendons and joints.

[erigni]

It's likely a form issue. Do your elbows flare out when you bench press?

[Horizon92]

I’ve recently got back into training absolutely loving it again, thing we’re going good getting all my strength back finally. And both of my shoulders are becoming painful during push workouts, especially exercises like chest flys, bench press, shoulder press.

I really don’t want to have to stop training, is there any way around this different types of exercises for push movements, like press ups, lower weight etc?

Has anyone had a similar issue and found a solution other than just stopping training

Edit: also I am 28 not 54 unsure why it says I’m 54 lol

Hard to say without more information. What kind of pain? Exactly when is it happening? Has it been creeping up on you or can you pinpoint it to an event?

Either way, you should consider three things:

(a) Rest - more rest may be necessary, as your strength might be coming back too fast for your tendons and ligaments to keep up with it. Its likely that you need to add a bit more time between push workouts to let your tendons heal.
(b) Higher rep sets - since the pain is likely a result of the weight being too heavy for your tendons and ligaments, doing lighter weight for higher reps (but the same proximity to failure) is a good way to skirt around the problem until your body catches up with your strength gains
(c) Proper warmup routine - you should consider implementing a solid shoulder warmup routine as prehab / rehab. Arm circles, shoulder dislocations (with a resistance band for instance) and spending the necessary time warming up on the exercise to get warm. That means always starting with the bar on bench, and not starting your working sets until you are actually feeling warmed up. Don't just do some random amount, and don't feel the need to always do the same amount of warmup. This will differ depending on a variety of factors, so just go by feel.

Lastly, shoulder pain could also be the result of squats. A lot of people get tendonitis and shoulder pain from lacking mobility in the back squat, leading to the weight taxing their arms during sets.

[Queggy]

Hard to say without more information. What kind of pain? Exactly when is it happening? Has it been creeping up on you or can you pinpoint it to an event?

Either way, you should consider three things:

(a) Rest - more rest may be necessary, as your strength might be coming back too fast for your tendons and ligaments to keep up with it. Its likely that you need to add a bit more time between push workouts to let your tendons heal.
(b) Higher rep sets - since the pain is likely a result of the weight being too heavy for your tendons and ligaments, doing lighter weight for higher reps (but the same proximity to failure) is a good way to skirt around the problem until your body catches up with your strength gains
(c) Proper warmup routine - you should consider implementing a solid shoulder warmup routine as prehab / rehab. Arm circles, shoulder dislocations (with a resistance band for instance) and spending the necessary time warming up on the exercise to get warm. That means always starting with the bar on bench, and not starting your working sets until you are actually feeling warmed up. Don't just do some random amount, and don't feel the need to always do the same amount of warmup. This will differ depending on a variety of factors, so just go by feel.

Lastly, shoulder pain could also be the result of squats. A lot of people get tendonitis and shoulder pain from lacking mobility in the back squat, leading to the weight taxing their arms during sets.

Hi thanks for the reply, it’s kind of like a pulling pain which limits my range of motion. It’s at its worst when I’m doing peck deck or any exercise which stretches my shoulder outwards to the point where I can’t really do peck deck anymore properly, but also can feel it when doing bench press exercises and shoulders. It has been niggling away on my right shoulder for a while but onto my left shoulder it’s starting to do the same.

I used to be relatively strong around 120kg bench, and I’ve just worked back up to 100 so maybe could be the muscle memory acting too fast? I’m just afraid it’s something more sinister.

I do warm up my shoulder on push days and have started doing more exercises at home on rest days too but nothing seems to be helping sadly

[radrd]

Are you doing movements to strengthen your rear delts, side delts, and rotator cuffs? Neglecting these can increase the likelihood that you'll develop shoulder pain.

If you think you may have a shoulder injury, go to the doctor and get checked out.The fact that you're developing pain in both shoulders suggests to me that it's more likely a training issue, but I'm no doctor or physical therapist.

Regardless, you need to quit doing whatever is increasing your pain. Don't touch the pec deck again until you are pain free, srs. And I would find a bench press variation that you can do pain free like maybe switch to DB from barbell for a while.

[StephenCGreen]

Do an appropriate workout (volume, intensity, etc.) for your level.

This.

Your recovery is insufficient for what you are doing.

First, ensure adequate recovery. Now that you have pain, this may require an extended period of time of low volume and low intensity. After that recovery period, ensure adequate recovery on a regular basis—recovery that corresponds to your accumulated fatigue. Advanced folk can accumulate fatigue, even up to a month or a little bit more, without too much pain, but must ensure adequate recovery at least monthly. However, most people recover on a workout to workout basis, because they hate pain and want to prevent it. They don’t want to live just for an exhibition and be in pain at work, shopping, walking the dog, lifting the kids, etc.

Second, after your initial recovery and elimination of pain, you can look at resuming your workout and refining your routine with a view to making it more efficient in hopes of reducing unnecessary accumulated stress. Proper form, proper order of exercises, warmups and cooldowns can all play a role in recovery even while you are lifting and in between reps and sets, which will help to make your overall recovery more efficient.

Post your favorite routine here, and maybe we can help you make it more efficient for your shoulders…

[Queggy]

This.

Your recovery is insufficient for what you are doing.

First, ensure adequate recovery. Now that you have pain, this may require an extended period of time of low volume and low intensity. After that recovery period, ensure adequate recovery on a regular basis—recovery that corresponds to your accumulated fatigue. Advanced folk can accumulate fatigue, even up to a month or a little bit more, without too much pain, but must ensure adequate recovery at least monthly. However, most people recover on a workout to workout basis, because they hate pain and want to prevent it. They don’t want to live just for an exhibition and be in pain at work, shopping, walking the dog, lifting the kids, etc.

Second, after your initial recovery and elimination of pain, you can look at resuming your workout and refining your routine with a view to making it more efficient in hopes of reducing unnecessary accumulated stress. Proper form, proper order of exercises, warmups and cooldowns can all play a role in recovery even while you are lifting and in between reps and sets, which will help to make your overall recovery more efficient.

Post your favorite routine here, and maybe we can help you make it more efficient for your shoulders…

Hey mate cheers for the reply, also thanks to everyone else who has replied I’ve made note of all advice and will implement it and see if it helps!

My usual go to chest work out in a week.

1st push of the week: I focus on flat bench, doing barbell press 4 sets of 8-12. I’ll then usually go onto peck deck doing 3 sets of 10, occasionally doing drop sets of 12, 10, 8 (have avoided this since my shoulders are playing up). After this I move over to the cable where I’ll do cable crossover or another cable variation . I end the session doing dips with with 20 second rests between sets until failure. (I’ll then cable some triceps which doesn’t have much relevance because causes me no pain)

On my 2nd push day of the week I focus mainly on upper chest, starting with a slight incline dumbbell press, 4 working sets of 8-12 reps. I the move over to the cables and do cable raises 3 sets of 10, I’ll then go over to peck deck and do 3 sets of 10-12 and again drop set before my shoulders played up. And I’ll then finish off again with different variations of press ups until failure with minimal rest between sets

Of course I do mix and match and occasionally use machines (try to avoid this) I’m open to any ideas that any of you have to give my shoulders a rest.

Again really appreciate all your responses!

[StephenCGreen]

Thank you for posting your go-to routine.

It seems that the Pec Deck machine may be an issue for you or is bringing a previously hidden issue to the fore.

Consider this insightful quote that was posted by user trek_6k back in 2-9-2009:

"The pec deck was designed to train the pectoralis major, the chest muscle that's commonly known as the pecs. The movement is similar to a dumbbell flye, but there are some significant differences. To begin with, the pec deck places your shoulders in a position of external, or lateral, rotation. Instead of lying on your bark, you're in a seated-or in some cases slightly reclined-position. At the end of the rep your upper arms are horizontal to the floor, a position of 90 degrees of flexion, and your forearms are vertical and pressing against the pads of the machine. Your shoulders are rotated externally, which can have important implications for some trainees.

The motion is completed as you move your upper arms backward to stretch your chest, and the final, stretched position includes horizontal abduction or even hyper-horizontal abduction of the shoulder. In this situation there are several possible causes of shoulder instability, some of which may overlap. When the shoulder is externally rotated, the ligaments in its front and bottom are stretched, and the stretch increases when the shoulder moves into horizontal abduction. This is not necessarily desirable.

Too much stretching of the ligaments will make them permanently loose, and that will cause shoulder pain for a variety of reasons. To begin with, the ball, which is the head of the humerus, will move too far forward in the socket, the glenoid fossa, during such movements as flat- and incline-bench presses, dumbbell and cable flyes and pec deck. This can make the ligaments hurt, and you may also feel compensatory pain in the biceps tendon and rotator cuff muscles or tendons because they must work too hard to stabilize the shoulder.

What if you already have shoulder instability? If that's the case, performing any of the above-named exercises will cause pain in the front or hack of your shoulder. This leads to frustration, with you scratching your head wondering why you can't per for the exercises that everyone else can do. That's a common scenario with trainees who come to the Soft Tissue Center. Even so, they don't necessarily all have the same problem. The first priority at this or any treatment facility is to make a diagnosis. It's the health care provider's job-be he or she an orthopedist, sports chiropractor, physical medicine specialist or osteopath-to isolate your problem.

This isn't always easy, and shoulder instability is one of the most commonly missed diagnoses. If you're having a problem, it may be wise for you to seek more than one opinion. In any event do not attempt to diagnose yourself. If you've already developed shoulder instability, the most common form of which is known as anterior glenohumeral instability, then you must avoid the aggravating exercise for the time being. For a severe case you may have to eliminate it from your workouts entirely. The pec deck is a particular offender in this regard due to the extra stretch you get. It can be just too much movement if your ligaments are already overstretched.

The key conservative treatment for such injuries is to work on strengthening the rotator cuff muscles, including exercises for both internal and external rotation. Another problem that seems to occur after the patients use pec deck machines is known as thoracic outlet syndrome. It's a somewhat complex ailment to diagnose. The nerves to the upper arm leave the spine in the neck and them a bundle, known as a plexus. The nerves in the bundle travel by certain muscles behind the collarbone, or clavicle, in front of the first rib and past other muscles to supply the arm. Some people have extra bands of connective tissue around this bundle of nerves. If the bundle becomes compressed, the patient may develop tingling, numbness, pain, temperature differences-perceived or actual-and a variety of symptoms over large areas of the arm, forearm, hand and even armpit.

The pec deck can aggravate or produce this problem if you perform it a certain way. Dr. Sean Coughtin of the Soft Issue Center demonstrates the correct and incorrect performance styles. Note how the movement occurs in the shoulder joint. This position is the offending action. Don't let your shoulders roll forward when you're using a pec deck. During the past year at the Soft Tissue Center we've seen six cases of thoracic outlet syndrome that can be attributed to the patients' performing pec deck flyes. If this is as common an occurrence as I believe it is, then there are hundreds, if not thousands, of similar cases around the country.

The solution is to avoid rolling your shoulders forward during this exercise-or simply avoid the machine altogether. If you feel shoulder pain when you're using the pec deck, you may have some degree of instability, and the pec deck may not be for you. If you train smart, you'll be able to train hard. There may be physical reasons that you're unable to perform an exercise. It's better to know than to keep making the situation worse."



It is a good read.

As some suggestions on what you might do during your recovery period, go dumbbells and/or cable machine rather than pec deck machine and barbell, and go flat rather than incline, for now during your recovery period. Also, consider supersetting your push movements with a corresponding but antagonist pull exercise, at least temporarily while you recover. This can allow for more time in between push movements while maintaining and encouraging greater blood flow to the muscles worked which will help in recovery during the workout. Such adjustments will tax your focus and can be quite a challenge to manage but will be worth it in the long run if you remember that your focus has now become recovery and you want to continue working out while recovering, plus supersetting usually feels great and is not as boring. Also take a closer look at your dips to failure and consider going to weighted dip but keep 2 reps in the tank for now during recovery rather than going to failure. Pre-exhaust with dumbbell pullovers before pressing. This works especially well when also supersetting active recovery sets.

Dumbbell pullover 3 x 12 (warmup/rampup sets)
Dumbbell flat bench press 4-5 x 8-12 superset with face pull and/or shoulder breakers
Cable machine variations
Dip and/or press up variations

Hope this helps you recover while keeping your routine as close to what you like as possible. On the other hand, sometimes big changes are good too.

[kirasmart]

Listen to you body. Do not go through your pain.

[Midnightbast]

It's great to hear that you're back into training and enjoying it! Shoulder pain during push workouts can be challenging, but there are ways to address it. Consider modifying your exercises to reduce strain, such as using lighter weights, incorporating resistance bands, or trying different variations like push-ups. Additionally, prioritize proper warm-up and stretching routines to improve flexibility and reduce discomfort. If the pain persists, consulting a physical therapist or trainer for personalized advice can be beneficial. Stay proactive and don't hesitate to adjust your routine to prioritize your shoulder health. Keep up the good work!