Paleo Diet

[Lynne]

Does anyone do paleolithic eating? Loren Cordain's book, The Paleo Diet, recommends lean proteins, all the fruit you want (including bananas), all the nonstarchy vegies you want, good fats and nuts in moderation. Dairy, all starch, legumes, and sugar are out.

I thought, perhaps, fruit would get me through cardio???

Maybe I'll keep looking at the keto diet.

Lynne

[Zachary]

You know, I'm probably not terribly qualified to say this, as I can't be 100% sure I'm right, but frankly, I believe all these 'ways of eating', even the ones preached here, and more or less overrated.

Given that:

There's a caloric deficit!
You're getting EFAs.
You're get 1g protein / lb. of bodyweight.
Your diet is REASONABLY clean (many take this too far -- yes, cut sugars, yes cut trans-fats, super-processed foods and stuff, but rice, potatoes, beans, milk, yogurt, cereal, fruit (not the kiddie kind, but stuff like Kashi), etc. are probably pretty much fine.

I suspect that even the leanest of the lean would see progress. Admittedly, certain specialized ways of dieting may speed things up, especially for those who have sub-10% body fat (things like refeeds, super-low carbs, cutting diary, cutting fruit, only eating oatmeal, etc.)

But I've often wondered, with all the stress perfectly clean eating gets here, how important it is to be 'flawlessly clean'.

Keep in mind, I'm not talking oreos here -- in fact, I'd even count out baked potato chips and the like just due to the degree of processing. But for cutting diets especially, many cry out to cut dairy, fruits, any carbs that aren't oatmeal/brown rice, various less-than-perfect fats, and frankly -- I wonder if it really makes that much of a difference, even in endomorphs.

[Lynne]

I'm doing really great so far. I've lost two sizes since July eating a pretty clean diet: lean proteins (including dairy), moderate good fats, fruits, vegies (could use more), good quality starches like legumes, yes potatoes, and whole wheat. I actually had spaghetti with meat sauce one day before a workout. I did one hour of intense cardio, then lifted weights for an hour-and-a-half. I think dieting is overrated...

Lynne

[nathan101085]

I am at like 6-8%bf i have to watch my diet or ill even out at about 10% the fact of it is though that having a few grams of trans fat, sugar, ect ect isnt gonna do anything to you, many make it sound like if you look at soemthing thats been looked at by someone who thought about processing it then it will make you fat and blah blah, it wont. It will however if its the staple of your diet. Make your diet 80-90% clean if you arent gonna go over your totals cals and you want a pop tart then its not gonna kill you, just stay at your caloric limit thats the most important thing, many would seem to belive that the minute a carb touches your mouth then you'll store it, this is not the case. Even if you DID store it then if your under your cals you HAVE to take it out of storage to live.

[Zachary]

Originally posted by nathan101085
I am at like 6-8%bf i have to watch my diet or ill even out at about 10% the fact of it is though that having a few grams of trans fat, sugar, ect ect isnt gonna do anything to you, many make it sound like if you look at soemthing thats been looked at by someone who thought about processing it then it will make you fat and blah blah, it wont. It will however if its the staple of your diet. Make your diet 80-90% clean if you arent gonna go over your totals cals and you want a pop tart then its not gonna kill you, just stay at your caloric limit thats the most important thing, many would seem to belive that the minute a carb touches your mouth then you'll store it, this is not the case. Even if you DID store it then if your under your cals you HAVE to take it out of storage to live.

This really is true. Clean is important, but SOME bad stuff is okay too; don't stress! (Stress = Cortisol = VAT ) Also, remember that like I said, clean is more than just the BBing staples. Kashi, potatoes, fruit, dairy, rice (except maybe instant!), just about any vegetable are all okay in average-ish amounts. Really, the only things that aren't clean are anything that's been significantly processed (chips of any kind, most breads, white flour, sugar, etc.) and anything with trans-fat. Granted, this does rule out a huge number of foods, but a lot more foods are clean than people are willing to realize! Open your horizons!

I stress this because some people obsess that they NEED to eat just oatmeal, brown rice, egg whites, tuna, flax, and protein shakes and that's IT.

Also, on the carbs -- it's actually even better than that. You see, carbs CAN'T be stored as fat -- they first have to go through a process called de novo lipogenesis which ONLY happens (more or less) in an extreme overabundance of carbs. Even then, it takes 450g or so of carbs to create just 150g of fat. And remember, this process for the most part never builds up significant amounts of fat.

That said, you obviously can't binge on carbs (with the exception of refeeds, which are another topic entirely), but they certainly aren't the evil that everyone makes them out to be. The same is true for lactose -- sheesh people, sugar <> evil. Unless ALL you eat is milk and fruit, you really don't need to worry about the liver glycogen stores being 'too full' (and thus at least in theory, causing lactose/fructose to be 'stored as fat').

[nathan101085]

exactly right zach, the thing is that for working out ect you use glucose, if you havnt eatn carbs and your not deep into ketosis and have a lot of ketones then your glucose is coming from your protein, the protein is broken down using cortisol and turned into glucose known as glucogenesis, if HIGH amounts of protein are eatn then the excess just gets turned into sugar through a process that stresses your body, granted that stress comes out in the end as more cals burned (why high protein promotes weight loss) but at the same time if your trying to build muscle then your just shorting yourself, if your body turned even 200g of protein into muscle a day then youd have a pound of new muscle about every 2.2 or 2.3 days, carbs decrease the amount of fat burned by encouraging glucose burning but at the same time even if you do store carbs as fat then start burning glucose those carbs that got stored arent carbs anymore so pretty soon your bodies gonna have to switch over to fat as insulin levels drop and if your within your caloric limit then those stored carbs get burnt anyway. Complex carbs that release slow really dont have much shot at becoming fat unless consumed in big huge quantities that continue to relase after glycogen stores are full. In weight lifters glycogen stores are always fluctuating as long you work out hard so an overflow is not usually a problem. Problems are run into however when you do this and then go over your caloric limit so the excess does go to fat and stay there until you create a demand for it. Remember 1 gram is itty bitty but it can grow over time still the change is small, mental image of ones body has a lot to do with it, statements that involve "getting fat overnight from eating a piece of cake" or something are probably more likely to be due to higher sodium intake and more subcontaneus water ect. The human body doesnt like to change rapidly. It definantly doesnt change as rapidly as a lot of our diets do hehe. So dont get too hung up on any of the "end all be all do this or get fat" information out there.

[Zachary]

Very true -- if people are finding that the insanely high protein diets are the only things that work, chances are, they're eating too much. Since 20% of protein calories or so, if used for energy, are wasted, by eating protein you're ultimately just eating fewer calories.

Carbs should really not be feared -- consider that despite all the fat Americans, there are lots of thin Americans (think: those crazy homeopathic Splenda-hating vegetarians) that eat diets which are almost pure carb (this is true in many parts of the world, think: Asia and rice) and they don't get fat. This is partially due to exercise, but more than anything just because they don't eat a lot.

The other thing is, if you eat low carbs for several days, leptin levels drop. I'm sure all of you have experienced super-low leptin levels. Oh, god. Not only do you feel like crap, but you have an insatiable hunger...binge time. Not good news (unless you do diets with refeeds, but that's pretty advanced).

EDIT: Actually leptin's gonna drop if you eat under maintenance, but it won't be nearly as bad if you eat more carbs.

[nathan101085]

This is a good point, obviously the only rut that people fall into with carbs and the sedentary lifestyle is this...

step 1. eat carbs and fats (generally these people arent really watcing what kind so it could easily be an insulin spike at every meal but the results are the same regardless)

Step 2. insulin promotes carb burning

Step 3. more carbs and fats

step 4 more insuline produces more carb burning

the cycles continues and these people on the road to weight gain are spiking theier insulin a lot causing a lot of the carbs to turn into fat as theri blood is cleared by the massive insuline surges causing more hunger and the feeling of a need for food so they eat again and it starts over again so they will feel hungry for more calories than they need cause they have put so many in storage and its easier to ingest the carbs than it is to pull them back out of storage and with a constant supply of carbs combined with overeating calories and a sedentary lifestyle the dietary fat really doesnt get touched and just stays where it is. This is the basis of the low fat in low fat high carb diets its really the dietary fats that arent being burnt because the carbs are they stay with you. However because of insulin spiking and sugar crashes causing hunger real "hunger" becomes very hard to discern this is what causes over eating calories that causes weight gain, carbs are just part of a chain of events.

[Zachary]

So very true...

A few days ago I tried eating some 'normal' foods (rice cakes, cereal, etc.). Oh. My. God. I ate about 300 calories of rice cakes and wanted about 2000 calories more. Hell, those things aren't even all that bad GI-wise (comapratively), but my god, they made me hungrier than I can ever remember being.

It is true that GI isn't as important (and is often overstated), but in terms of controlling hunger, it really is a godsend.

[as0l0]

thaqt's why people promote oatmeal, sweet potato and such...it's more about controlling hunger than the fear of what rice or pasta or bread might do to your fat stores.

at the same time, many, many people fear carbs for no good reason

[johnnyironboard]

I am always amazed at the so called "caveman" diets that say eat all the fruit you want. Plant fruit trees and vines in your back yard and you know what you will learn? Cavemen ate fruit about 2 to 3 weeks out of the year!!

[Lynne]

Fruit all year long.... I wondered about that one, too. Most people do not live in a tropical climate. Also, Cordain bases much of what he says on evolution (theories, not science). I don't believe a caveman would look at his kill and say, "Darn, I can't eat that part, there's too much fat!"

[johnnyironboard]

I guess Samoa and Hawaii had fruit year around. Being fat and from Samoa is a cliche'.

[as0l0]

Originally posted by johnnyironboard
I am always amazed at the so called "caveman" diets that say eat all the fruit you want. Plant fruit trees and vines in your back yard and you know what you will learn? Cavemen ate fruit about 2 to 3 weeks out of the year!!

good post!

[bango skank]

Other Internet Resources
http://www.paleodiet.com/ - “The Paleolithic Diet Page
What the Hunter/Gatherers Ate,” Many links to other resources, websites, articles, books, studies, etc.

http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html - Dr. Ben Balzer's page. He is a family physician in Australia. This is probably the clearest introduction on the web. Goes into greater detail on toxins found in Neolithic foods.

http://www.performancemenu.com/forum...daysprune=&f=8 – The Performance Menu’s Paleolithic Diet community forum.

http://www.performancemenu.com/zen/i...products_id=78 - Cooking for Health & Performance by Scott Hagnas with Robb Wolf & Nicki Violetti; E-Book with over 80 gluten and dairy-free recipes to support optimal health and athletic performance. Recipes are Paleo-friendly and Zone block counts are provided.

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ - “Health and Nutrition by Dr. Michael R. Eades, M.D,” Nutritional blog advocating a cereal/gluten free lifestyle, updated daily with anecdotal reports, science, journal reviews, and recipes.

http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_de...ebcastid=21216 – “The Quality of Calories: What Makes Us Fat and Why Nobody Seems to Care,” Webcast lecture by Gary Taubes, author of Good Calories, Bad Calories at UC Berkeley on the topic of obesity.

[Oldskoolfan]

Tag for links.

[Thebigcorbowski]

Terrible diet. Unless you're on a bulk. If you;re on a cut, eating all the fruit you want os pure ****ing bull****. Veggies are reasonable. Lean protein 1 g/lb BW.....


sounds like a lazy, vague, and uneducated diet to me.

[The Clap]

Terrible diet. Unless you're on a bulk. If you;re on a cut, eating all the fruit you want os pure ****ing bull****. Veggies are reasonable. Lean protein 1 g/lb BW.....


sounds like a lazy, vague, and uneducated diet to me.

Met a guy yesterday that is on this diet. He's been on it a year and a half. No calorie counting, very simple, very easy rules to follow. The guy is built like a jaguar. Not huge (though he's really tall), but he's not a bodybuilder either. He looks like he could chase down a gazelle and kill it with his bare hands though.

Personally I'm at a point in life where I don't have time to count calories or macronutrient ratios. I don't have a problem going without grains though. I think I'll eat this way for a while.

I figured this diet wouldn't get a lot of good press here.

[throwdown12]

I am a fan.
Regardless of the the science behind it, or what 'cavemen' really ate or not, I have seen great results with this kind of diet. I eliminated all grains and processed foods, eat as much fruits, vegetables and meat as I want - which obviously would have a good effect for fat loss, but it has not hindered my performance at all.

In 1 month I lost 5lbs of fat, but kept all my muscle, even increased in size a little. My strength continued to go up...even my running performance increased (mostly due to weight loss).
This was about two months ago. Am still eating this way and have seen no negative effects. I even feel healthier.

6 Days a Week: Eat lean meat, vegetables, fruit, nuts, seeds, and drink water. Don't eat carbs (bread, spuds, rice) or sugar.
1 Day a Week: Cheat like a mother! Beer, pizza, ice cream - you name it!

[SDC77]

This is a good point, obviously the only rut that people fall into with carbs and the sedentary lifestyle is this...

step 1. eat carbs and fats (generally these people arent really watcing what kind so it could easily be an insulin spike at every meal but the results are the same regardless)

Step 2. insulin promotes carb burning

Step 3. more carbs and fats

step 4 more insuline produces more carb burning

the cycles continues and these people on the road to weight gain are spiking theier insulin a lot causing a lot of the carbs to turn into fat as theri blood is cleared by the massive insuline surges causing more hunger and the feeling of a need for food so they eat again and it starts over again so they will feel hungry for more calories than they need cause they have put so many in storage and its easier to ingest the carbs than it is to pull them back out of storage and with a constant supply of carbs combined with overeating calories and a sedentary lifestyle the dietary fat really doesnt get touched and just stays where it is. This is the basis of the low fat in low fat high carb diets its really the dietary fats that arent being burnt because the carbs are they stay with you. However because of insulin spiking and sugar crashes causing hunger real "hunger" becomes very hard to discern this is what causes over eating calories that causes weight gain, carbs are just part of a chain of events.

The "don't eat carbs and fats together" bit is pure mythology. Total **** that was debunked eons ago.

It all comes down to total calories.

[pump6]

I am a fan.
Regardless of the the science behind it, or what 'cavemen' really ate or not, I have seen great results with this kind of diet. I eliminated all grains and processed foods, eat as much fruits, vegetables and meat as I want - which obviously would have a good effect for fat loss, but it has not hindered my performance at all.

In 1 month I lost 5lbs of fat, but kept all my muscle, even increased in size a little. My strength continued to go up...even my running performance increased (mostly due to weight loss).
This was about two months ago. Am still eating this way and have seen no negative effects. I even feel healthier.

6 Days a Week: Eat lean meat, vegetables, fruit, nuts, seeds, and drink water. Don't eat carbs (bread, spuds, rice) or sugar.
1 Day a Week: Cheat like a mother! Beer, pizza, ice cream - you name it!

Only 5 lbs of fat in a month? I guess it depends how much fat you have on you. I have heard about obese guys on this diet and their fat just melts off. I am doing it right now so I can lose fat. It hasn't effected my lifting or anything so I am loving it so far.

[rmani]

Met a guy yesterday that is on this diet. He's been on it a year and a half. No calorie counting, very simple, very easy rules to follow. The guy is built like a jaguar. Not huge (though he's really tall), but he's not a bodybuilder either. He looks like he could chase down a gazelle and kill it with his bare hands though.

Personally I'm at a point in life where I don't have time to count calories or macronutrient ratios. I don't have a problem going without grains though. I think I'll eat this way for a while.

I figured this diet wouldn't get a lot of good press here.

this is what sold me on this diet. friend of mine who swears by it and looks fantastic. not like an enormous bodybuilder but extremely muscular with fantastic definition. he only works out 3x a week to to maintain. Since I started the diet I've lost 5-7 lbs but my friend said the same thing happened to him for the first couple of months, and then he started to gain weight but nearly all of the weight gain was muscle. I have been doing the diet for a few weeks now and so far i'm liking the results. strength has increased as has my stamina. body looks very slightly leaner but also more muscular (something most people say is impossible to do without steroids). I'm not 100% sold yet, and I do cheat every now and then with a brown rice meal or a bagel in the AM, but overall I'm happy with it. And it's simple too, just stay away from rice, pasta, bread, and eat a lot of meat, nuts, fruit & veggies.

[m1ke78]

this is what sold me on this diet. friend of mine who swears by it and looks fantastic. not like an enormous bodybuilder but extremely muscular with fantastic definition. he only works out 3x a week to to maintain. Since I started the diet I've lost 5-7 lbs but my friend said the same thing happened to him for the first couple of months, and then he started to gain weight but nearly all of the weight gain was muscle. I have been doing the diet for a few weeks now and so far i'm liking the results. strength has increased as has my stamina. body looks very slightly leaner but also more muscular (something most people say is impossible to do without steroids). I'm not 100% sold yet, and I do cheat every now and then with a brown rice meal or a bagel in the AM, but overall I'm happy with it. And it's simple too, just stay away from rice, pasta, bread, and eat a lot of meat, nuts, fruit & veggies.

Personal experience is what sold me too. Tried it for 30 days, never looked back. 6 Months later I'm stronger and leaner than I ever have been before (on both counts). Also haven't been sick in 6 months and feel like I recover from workouts a little faster (may be mental).

[SDC77]

Gayleo

[wingnut4772]

Any updates?

[metalheadz]

The idea of eating as many fruits as you want on the paleo diet was apparently not Cordain's original intention. According to Robb Wolf in his podcast the editors modified the book to make it more friendly and mainstream. I haven't read the book, this is only hearsay from listening to Robb Wolf's podcast so I can't guarantee anything,

[Beth21]

I am a fan.
Regardless of the the science behind it, or what 'cavemen' really ate or not, I have seen great results with this kind of diet. I eliminated all grains and processed foods, eat as much fruits, vegetables and meat as I want - which obviously would have a good effect for fat loss, but it has not hindered my performance at all.

This! I ate this way without ever thinking it was a diet out there and felt great! I just started cutting a bunch out. Now grains/dairy make me sick :/

[anonymous]

care to share a typical day's menu with us?

i would consider trying out this diet...would something like this work?

breakfast- bowl of blueberries, raspberries and cashews

lunch- chicken breast and string beans

snack- banana, almonds

dinner- steak and broccolli


would obviously have to get normal sized portions, but does that outline work?


also- fish? yay or nay?

black coffee- yay or nay?

carbonated beverages?

[adoniscomplex]

paleo makes sense for the average person who wants to be healthy and in good shape
eat what we were meant to be eating

[jborgschulte]

care to share a typical day's menu with us?

i would consider trying out this diet...would something like this work?

breakfast- bowl of blueberries, raspberries and cashews

lunch- chicken breast and string beans

snack- banana, almonds

dinner- steak and broccolli


would obviously have to get normal sized portions, but does that outline work?


also- fish? yay or nay?

black coffee- yay or nay?

carbonated beverages?

For the most part, you've got it. Just a couple things to note:

• Swap out the beans with something like baby spinach with a light vinaigrette. Legumes aren't on the paleo diet and spinach is loaded with a ridiculous amount of good stuff. It's widely considered the healthiest veggie out there.

• When you eating nuts as a snack, choose the ones with the most omega-3 fatty acids whenever possible. Walnuts are the best. Whole Foods sells them the cheapest I've found. $3.99 for a pound in the packaged nuts section in the bulk foods department.

In regard to your questions...

FISH: oh hell yeah. Wild Alaskan salmon's the best. Great fats, great protein. Mahi's a good choice, too. A bit more affordable.

COFFEE: it's best to avoid caffeine on the paleo diet, but we find it's ok in moderation. Green and black tea is another good alternative too. You get some good antioxidants in there along with the great benefits of EGCG in the green variety. If you still want the coffee, the most important thing to remember is not use milk or sugar. Although a nut milk or coconut milk and stevia could be occasionally used.

CARBONATED BEVs: another thing that's best to avoid while on paleo. Diet sodas are a given no-no. There's too many artificial ingredients. Club soda probably isn't going to hurt, but I'd rather reach for a cup of tea myself.

Hope this helps. If you're looking for some paleo recipes, visit my site at realgrubbin[dot]com.