Why would Americans reject universal healthcare?

[goody1]

I might give it a shot if you completely close down the border and kick out all the illegals.

[stevebec]

Rand corp did a study on this, and it ended up costing only 70B or so to give everyone healthcare. We spent more on Ukraine.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3106.html

It is definitely doable. Keep in mind, we are spending 1 T annually on the military.

Did you even read the report? It's 1.4 T, not 70B.

[ufkndipchit]

Did you even read the report? It's 1.4 T, not 70B.

Did you? Look at total cost and not just federal cost. Federal spending would increase, but you're ignoring the effects of saving. The status quo is nearly as high due to private and state expenditures. Read the report. Compare the total national health expenditures.

[gachase21]

Did you? Look at total cost and not just federal cost. Federal spending would increase, but you're ignoring the effects of saving. The status quo is nearly as high due to private and state expenditures. Read the report. Compare the total national health expenditures.

This study doesn't even touch the increase in social security cost, the increase in housing cost, and the environmental impact cost.

It doesn't come close to including real cost.

[Polaris]

I might give it a shot if you completely close down the border and kick out all the illegals.

What about obese people?

[Phil9]

Don't worry OP, the GOP have been promising monumental healthcare insurance reform since 2010. I'm sure they will unveil their plan any day now.

[ufkndipchit]

This study doesn't even touch the increase in social security cost, the increase in housing cost, and the environmental impact cost.

It doesn't come close to including real cost.

This is about healthcare costs. Are you seriously making the fascist argument that it is better to let people die? You're ignoring the cost of people dying early due to lack of proper healthcare. It is a net harm on society, Thanos.

[gachase21]

This is about healthcare costs. Are you seriously making the fascist argument that it is better to let people die? You're ignoring the cost of people dying early due to lack of proper healthcare. It is a net harm on society, Thanos.

It is about doing a proper study- you have to include all associated cost.

what route you want to take - good bad best - based on the information can be debated.
What concessions or changes you want to make can be debated.

But the facts need to be clear.

[IPoopStandingUp]

I work harder than most people and earn kind of a lot, so I generally prefer to pay my own way than have things become "free" and have to pay for others. The people whining about health care and student loans remind me of the people standing in the median at traffic lights with signs asking for money. Yes selfish

[Thebigzub]

As long as I get a 5 pound block of Government cheese I'm good with it...

[ufkndipchit]

It is about doing a proper study- you have to include all associated cost.

what route you want to take - good bad best - based on the information can be debated.
What concessions or changes you want to make can be debated.

But the facts need to be clear.

The facts are clear. We are the richest country on Earth and do not provide healthcare coverage for everyone. It's ridiculous. We have 1 T annually for the military, but not money for healthcare.

[gachase21]

The facts are clear. We are the richest country on Earth and do not provide healthcare coverage for everyone. It's ridiculous. We have 1 T annually for the military, but not money for healthcare.

I'm not even against national healthcare. I'm just saying that study is incomplete..

For example - if it included the true change in Social Security cost (which would be significant)

- I would argue they the average productivity of Americans would increase less sick and downtime (increase gdp and productivity margins - this increasing tax revenue when equity, wealth growth)- and in average healthier Americans could work longer - then we could increase the age on the "prime age workforce" from 55 to 60- and increase Social Security qualification age to 70.

This would also result in a larger, already existing citizen, workforce and reduce the need for immigration- this offset housing needs (housing costs will also be significantly impacted)


Your study was incomplete

[ufkndipchit]

I'm not even against national healthcare. I'm just saying that study is incomplete..

For example - if it included the true change in Social Security cost (which would be significant)

- I would argue they the average productivity of Americans would increase less sick and downtime (increase gdp and productivity margins - this increasing tax revenue when equity, wealth growth)- and in average healthier Americans could work longer - then we could increase the age on the "prime age workforce" from 55 to 60- and increase Social Security qualification age to 70.

This would also result in a larger, already existing citizen, workforce and reduce the need for immigration- this offset housing needs (housing costs will also be significantly impacted)


Your study was incomplete

These studies will always be incomplete because there are tons of secondary and tertiary effects. It's ridiculous to think providing medical care to our people is worse than letting them die and suffer.

Yeah a healthier population would help us. Moon lands on man.

[gachase21]

These studies will always be incomplete because there are tons of secondary and tertiary effects. It's ridiculous to think providing medical care to our people is worse than letting them die and suffer.

Having everything on them never will be possible, but they excluded an enormous chunk.

Stop posting bad studies.

[ufkndipchit]

Having everything on them never will be possible, but they excluded an enormous chunk.

Stop posting bad studies.

You're being ridiculous.

The impacts you are talking about are not an enormous chunk at all. We are talking about differences in nearly 4 trillion dollars in expenditures.

[gachase21]

You're being ridiculous.

The impacts you are talking about are not an enormous chunk at all. We are talking about differences in nearly 4 trillion dollars in expenditures.

You don't think increasing lifespan will significantly impact Social Security cost at our current age payments?

You don't think lengthening time of housing occupancy will impact the price of housing?

You do know in many of these cases housing is a government expenditure don't you?

Right wrong or in different we have to be honest with everyone about the cost when we are discussing legislation.

[ufkndipchit]

You don't think increasing lifespan will significantly impact Social Security cost at our current age payments?

You don't think lengthening time of housing occupancy will impact the price of housing?

You do know in many of these cases housing is a government expenditure don't you?

Right wrong or in different we have to be honest with everyone about the cost when we are discussing legislation.

It will impact it but not much. You are overestimating impact on lifespan due to medical care for elderly. In fact, most elderly already have medical care. What this will do is help younger and middle aged folks who would otherwise have not made it. We already have tons of healthcare plans for the very elderly. I want to add how important regular healthcare coverage is. There are tons of people who miss screenings and suffer from preventable harms, which end up costing the entire system a lot more down the road.

Impact on price of housing will be minimal. You are disguising the "let them die" fascist argument, Thanos. It isn't working.

[gachase21]

It will impact it but not much. You are overestimating impact on lifespan due to medical care for elderly. In fact, most elderly already have medical care. What this will do is help younger and middle aged folks who would otherwise have not made it. We already have tons of healthcare plans for the very elderly. I want to add how important regular healthcare coverage is. There are tons of people who miss screenings and suffer from preventable harms which end up costing the entire system a lot more down the road.

Study?


See- it should have been included

[bigcat3655]

Rand corp did a study on this, and it ended up costing only 70B or so to give everyone healthcare. We spent more on Ukraine.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3106.html

It is definitely doable. Keep in mind, we are spending 1 T annually on the military.

If you think $70bn is enough to cover everyone in the US with full healthcare you're fukkin stupid. 70 billion divided by 330 million is 212. $212 per person for healthcare, not counting all the illegals who would be given access to it as well.

[ufkndipchit]

If you think $70bn is enough to cover everyone in the US with full healthcare you're fukkin stupid. 70 billion divided by 330 million is 212. $212 per person for healthcare, not counting all the illegals who would be given access to it as well.

Read the study. It's 70 billion more than the status quo. You're forgetting how much is already spent. The doctor still has to treat your dumb ass when you go without health insurance and let a preventable disease get horrible. They still have to treat the illegals, etc. They are doing this now, currently. Read. Try reading. Hey, did you try READING?

[goody1]

What about obese people?

One thing at a time. First shut the border down and kick out every single illegal.
Then we can work on the unhealthy citizens

[adamsz]

because it's chit and the free market is a million times better

[freeheeler]

This is about healthcare costs. Are you seriously making the fascist argument that it is better to let people die? You're ignoring the cost of people dying early due to lack of proper healthcare. It is a net harm on society, Thanos.

If you smoke or do drugs why should my taxes pay four treatment?

If you eat **** food and weigh 500lbs+ Drop dead

Why should an illegal, hot from coming here illegally get any treatment, be able to give birth free of charge??

[ParsleyTea]

We do have the government run Medicare for those 65 and old and Medicaid for those not able to afford medical costs, health programs in America. There is also the veteran hospitals for the military veterans.

[crupiea]

Simple.

How much of your paycheck are you willing to give up to pay for it? nothing is free in life.

Look at your paystub right now. See the part where it lists the tax deductions? Thats usually way higher than people care for.

Now take that amount and double it.

Then when you file your taxes at the end of the year, remove that line that says amount you will be refunded. That wont exist anymore either.

This would be about what it would take to even introduce the start of universal healthcare.

It would be cheaper for everyone to just buy insurance.

[freeheeler]

Read the study. It's 70 billion more than the status quo. You're forgetting how much is already spent. The doctor still has to treat your dumb ass when you go without health insurance and let a preventable disease get horrible. They still have to treat the illegals, etc. They are doing this now, currently. Read. Try reading. Hey, did you try READING?

Why do we HAVE to treat illegal pond scum? Send them back across the border if they’re about to drop a another baby or feel sick and we end
Up having to treat their whole ****ing family of criminals

[Zelensky]

You can't have open borders with mass immigration and also have"free" healthcare.

/thread

[AgRyan]

We already have some free healthcare. Look at Emergency Rooms in major cities (my experience is limited to CA in this regard). They are overrun with homeless people, some who make things up to get a warm bed, some get taken in my paramedics or police because some do-gooder called on them, they live on the street so have a ton of stuff wrong with them and can use any of those things to go to the ER and get a bed, and the ER can't refuse treatment.

Most of this is due because of fire/police, so they're essentially getting the next available bed compared to people coming in off the street. AKA normal people with jobs who are doing things the right way. However, people seem to treat the ER like urgent care and go for anything and everything, and the ER can't turn people away, so all these people are getting treated. This leads to places like level 1 trauma centers (meant to see the worst of the worst, the only ER that can handle brain injuries and stuff like gunshot wounds and loss of limb), being impacted (aka not accepting ambulance rides because they're so full) because of stupid people walking in. So now that person who was just in a car accident and lost their arm, or the person who just got shot, has to travel out of the county to the next trauma center.

Do we want to make all healthcare more like this?

[badreligion]

Look at how the VA is run if you want to see what it would be like, here is a hint, it will not be run well. Plus, Americans are so f ucking entitled, why should someone who takes care of themselves by eating right, exercising etc be forced to pay for some fat f uck's 3rd bypass because they sit on their ass all day chain swallowing Devil Dogs? If they want UHC then there needs to be requirements to qualify.

[6gorillion]

You can't have open borders with mass immigration and also have"free" healthcare.

/thread

Canada and Europe have open borders with "mass immigration" and also have "free" healthcare".