Delta to charge unvaxxed employees extra $200 a month for health insurance

[Jayarbie]

So you're cool with them charging higher premiums when you start to gain weight?

Ironically, this will disproportionately affect black employees since urban blacks re one of the least vaccinated groups.

If there were an accurate measure of obesity that puts people at-risk, then sure. A charge for BMI is not it. That measure is useless at an individual level.

[Jayarbie]

As a side note, since the rona is so deadly why the high health ins premiums? If I get it I'm dead in about 5-7 days??

I mean, this stuff= BAD NEWS.

It's a hell of a lot cheaper than cancer for the ins co's. You'd think they'd be happy I got it as opposed to some long drawn out disease.

It's not like they have to pay for the casket

Please, can I have another heaping helping lib posturing?

You're not dead in 5-7 days, and the cost of ICU care and intubation are astronomical, and that's exactly what the jab is best at preventing, so it really is justified by cost increases.

[Jayarbie]

Discrimination based on personal medical decisions is not free market capitalism. Unless, you think whites only drinking fountains is free market capitalism too.

Being black isn't a "personal medical decision". Protected classes in civil rights law are generally things a person has no control over (race, gender, sexual orientation). Obstinate wingnut is not a protected class and you can always choose to just get the vax.

[FChumChum]

It's not a free market when uncle sam forces everyoner to have it

Uncle Sam isn't forcing everyone.

Private company said their employees need it. If you don't, then pay up.

Capitalism = making the users of good / services pay for it without putting others (usually the public or government) on the hook.

Edit: Insurance = risk mitigation, that is the business model. You can choose not to take it, therefore you are in a higher risk cohort therefore you pay more. It is math not a political statement in this instance.

[FChumChum]

Discrimination based on personal medical decisions is not free market capitalism. Unless, you think whites only drinking fountains is free market capitalism too.

This is some of the stupidest chit i've ever read ont he misc (srs).

[ChewYourFood]

It’s now obvious that the government cannot mandate the vax and are leaning on corporations to do their dirty work - just like the government can’t censor you, but 1/2 of the population cheers when private companies do it.

But heaven forbid a private cake shop doesn’t just bake the fkn cake…

[gun-G]

Uncle Sam isn't forcing everyone.

Private company said their employees need it. If you don't, then pay up.

Capitalism = making the users of good / services pay for it without putting others (usually the public or government) on the hook.

Edit: Insurance = risk mitigation, that is the business model. You can choose not to take it, therefore you are in a higher risk cohort therefore you pay more. It is math not a political statement in this instance.

Wrong
It's a BENEFIT my employer offers. If I decline I pay a tax penalty every year.
I didn't expect you to know the hurdles taxpayers deal with tho

[sooby]

would have no problem with this if they did the same for fat phucks, smokers and alcoholics

[BFast55]

If there were an accurate measure of obesity that puts people at-risk, then sure. A charge for BMI is not it. That measure is useless at an individual level.

The gray area is the rub. Like you said, the flawed BMI model.
Likewise, people smoke for decades and die of things other than lung cancer, nor do they suffer from many adverse effects.
What about white bishes that spend their 20 & 30s underneath a tanning booth. Should their premiums go up?

Regardless of the above, those are all lifestyle choices. Vaccinations, on the other hand, are medical decisions. The real questions is this: Do you think HIPAA laws are out dated? Should companies be allowed access to employees' medical records? That is where it seems we're at with this whole punishing for not getting covid vaccine. Hell, what if they have recovered, and don't require a vaccine? Still gonna fine them?

[BFast55]

It’s now obvious that the government cannot mandate the vax and are leaning on corporations to do their dirty work - just like the government can’t censor you, but 1/2 of the population cheers when private companies do it.

This right here.
Now that one vax has been FDA approved, this will give gov'ts license to apply more pressure.

[gun-G]

You're not dead in 5-7 days, and the cost of ICU care and intubation are astronomical, and that's exactly what the jab is best at preventing, so it really is justified by cost increases.

tell those vaccinated fuks in hospital beds that

[BFast55]

This is some of the stupidest chit i've ever read ont he misc (srs).

The important thing is that you never provide reasoning or a rebuttal to your hyperbole. Hell, don't even proof-read it.

[Dave22reborn]

tell those vaccinated fuks in hospital beds that

Since a simple breeze would put Jayarbie underground, he should pay higher premiums.

[gun-G]

Since a simple breeze would put Jayarbie underground, he should pay higher premiums.

I always read the name as Jay Barbie, a nice unisex name

[Dave22reborn]

The important thing is that you never provide reasoning or a rebuttal to your hyperbole. Hell, don't even proof-read it.

The dude is a virgin, who supports harsh lockdowns and an unarmed civilian population. Then in the same sentence claims to be conservative......

[Dave22reborn]

You're not dead in 5-7 days, and the cost of ICU care and intubation are astronomical, and that's exactly what the jab is best at preventing, so it really is justified by cost increases.

You're claiming all the above happens to everyone who gets it?

Also.......

Surgeon General says only mRNA vaccines matter.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...0514183&page=1

Looks like your sickly, worthless ass got the wrong vaccine.

[metroins]

I think....

If you are unvaccinated and exposed to covid, the CDC guidelines tell the person to stay home for 10 days.

If you are vaccinated and exposed, you just need a negative test in 3 days and you wear a mask at work.

I would assume Delta is trying to prevent workers calling out sick and disrupting the tight timelines airlines have. I only own small businesses, so everybody is vaccinated that works for us. My brother in law is a Director at a large company and he has to deal with these things. I might be wrong, but I think that is the reasoning.

The CARES act will cover 10 days of pay for taking care of yourself up to $500/day and 60 days of taking care of a child at 66%? But I think for larger companies the employees being at work are more important than the loss of pay.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019..._1609683680044


Most workplaces should follow the Public Health Recommendations for Community-Related Exposure. The most protective approach for the workplace is for exposed employees close contacts yo quarantine for 14 days, telework if possible, and self-monitor for symptoms. This approach maximally reduces post-quarantine transmission risk and is the strategy with the greatest collective experience at present.Although CDC continues to recommend a 14-day quarantine, options are provided for shorter quarantine that may end after day 7 or after day 10 based on certain conditions.

Alternatives to the 14-day quarantine are described in the Options to Reduce Quarantine for Contacts of Persons with SARS-CoV-2 Infection Using Symptom Monitoring and Diagnostic Testing. Shortening quarantine may increase willingness to adhere to public health recommendations. However, shortened quarantine may be less effective in preventing transmission of COVID-19 than the currently recommended 14-day quarantine.Workplaces could consider these quarantine alternatives as measures to mitigate staffing shortages, but they are not the preferred options to mitigate staffing shortages.

Workplaces should understand that shortening the duration of quarantine might pose additional transmission risk. Employers should also consider workplace characteristics when considering if this additional transmission risk is acceptable e.g., level of community transmission, ability to maintain social distancing, proportion of employees at increased risk for severe illness, and priority for continuity of operations.


Employers should counsel workers about the need to monitor for symptoms and immediately self-isolate if symptoms occur during the 14 days after their exposure and the importance of consistent adherence to all recommended mitigation strategies e.g., mask wearing, social distancing, hand hygiene, cleaning and disinfection, and proper ventilation.

Alternative options -- the 10 days I talked about.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...uarantine.html

Read the guidelines if you want, I didn't fully read them yet. We just had a workplace exposure today but the employee was scheduled to work remotely for the next 10 days anyway.

[gun-G]

I think....

If you are unvaccinated and exposed to covid, the CDC guidelines tell the person to stay home for 10 days.

If you are vaccinated and exposed, you just need a negative test in 3 days and you wear a mask at work.

I would assume Delta is trying to prevent workers calling out sick and disrupting the tight timelines airlines have. I only own small businesses, so everybody is vaccinated that works for us. My brother in law is a Director at a large company and he has to deal with these things. I might be wrong, but I think that is the reasoning.

The CARES act will cover 10 days of pay for taking care of yourself (up to $500/day) and 60 days of taking care of a child at 66%? But I think for larger companies the employees being at work are more important than the loss of pay.

Covid should be a one time event...

Should people ( cant say "women') have a mandatory requirement from Delta to take a pill so they dont get pregnant and distrupt the schedule due to morning sickness?

[metroins]

Covid should be a one time event...

Should people ( cant say "women') have a mandatory requirement from Delta to take a pill so they dont get pregnant and distrupt the schedule due to morning sickness?

Unfortunately it is not a one time event. People are being reinfected whether they were unvaccinated or vaccinated

You may not agree with my post, but if I am correct about it, it's not a political/vaccination decision as much as a business decision following government guidelines.

[gun-G]

Unfortunately it is not a one time event. People are being reinfected whether they were unvaccinated or vaccinated

You may not agree with my post, but if I am correct about it, it's not a political/vaccination decision as opposed to a business decision following government guidelines.

Well then, you just stepped on a land mine as based on your theory the delta employees, whether they are vaccinated or unvaccinated, still have to quarantine when they test positive.

[icetrauma]

I think....

If you are unvaccinated and exposed to covid, the CDC guidelines tell the person to stay home for 10 days.

If you are vaccinated and exposed, you just need a negative test in 3 days and you wear a mask at work.

I would assume Delta is trying to prevent workers calling out sick and disrupting the tight timelines airlines have. I only own small businesses, so everybody is vaccinated that works for us. My brother in law is a Director at a large company and he has to deal with these things. I might be wrong, but I think that is the reasoning.

The CARES act will cover 10 days of pay for taking care of yourself up to $500/day and 60 days of taking care of a child at 66%? But I think for larger companies the employees being at work are more important than the loss of pay.



Read the guidelines if you want, I didn't fully read them yet. We just had a workplace exposure today but the employee was scheduled to work remotely for the next 10 days anyway.

The article said Delta is finding the majority of Covid admissions are from unvaccinated employee's and each admission is costing them 50k.

[icetrauma]

Unfortunately it is not a one time event. People are being reinfected whether they were unvaccinated or vaccinated

You may not agree with my post, but if I am correct about it, it's not a political/vaccination decision as much as a business decision following government guidelines.

IMO, I wouldn't call it a political decision, more of an employer driven initiative like the flu vaccine, except with a harsher result if you don't get the vaccine. And at 50K an admission for treatment, they're definitely thinking about saving/recouping some of the money spent.

[metroins]

Well then, you just stepped on a land mine as based on your theory the delta employees, whether they are vaccinated or unvaccinated, still have to quarantine when they test positive.

My post was about cdc guidelines being 10 days if unvaccinated and 3 days vaccinated with negative test. These aren't my personal opinions.

My personal opinion is delta is trying to get employees vaccinated so they can follow CDC guidelines and have less employees out of work.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...uarantine.html

Someone who has been fully vaccinated and shows no symptoms of COVID-19. However, fully vaccinated people should get tested 3-5 days after their exposure, even they don’t have symptoms and wear a mask indoors in public for 14 days following exposure or until their test result is negative.

----------

The article said Delta is finding the majority of Covid admissions are from unvaccinated employee's and each admission is costing them 50k.

Thanks looks like it is more about their health insurance costs instead of staffing and my guess was wrong. I missed that in the article.

Delta airlines is primarily self insured health plans, so the company eats the costs directly.

[Dave22reborn]

Unfortunately it is not a one time event. People are being reinfected whether they were unvaccinated or vaccinated

You may not agree with my post, but if I am correct about it, it's not a political/vaccination decision as much as a business decision following government guidelines.

Your immunity is higher if you already had the Rona. Why should someone get the jab, if they already had Covid?

[metroins]

Your immunity is higher if you already had the Rona. Why should someone get the jab, if they already had Covid?

You can study it if you want; vaccination increases efficacy.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2782139

Compared with 6 months prior, participants who were not vaccinated maintained most of their plasma antibodies against the virus’s receptor binding domain (RBD) and their plasma had similar neutralizing activity against a nonreplicating virus engineered with the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein. Their memory B cells that produce anti-RBD antibodies were only slightly lower in number than at the previous visit and had evolved to produce a broader and more potent range of antibodies. However, their plasma had less neutralizing activity against the variants B.1.1.7 (alpha), B.1.351 (beta), B.1.526 (iota), and P.1 (gamma), with the greatest loss of activity against the beta variant first detected in South Africa.

Compared with unvaccinated participants, those who had received at least 1 dose had higher plasma anti-RBD antibodies and a nearly 50-fold increase in neutralizing activity. According to Nussenzweig, vaccination boosts the memory antibodies that develop after infection, producing an “outstanding response.” In this group, neutralizing antibody levels against the variants surpassed the levels observed against the wild-type virus in infected or fully vaccinated individuals in other studies. Additional research supports this. Two teams, in North America and the UK, recently published studies in Science demonstrating that a single dose of an mRNA vaccine substantially enhances the immune response to SARS-CoV-2 variants among patients with a prior infection—a phenomenon some are calling “hybrid immunity.”

Unvaccinated health care workers appeared to have less protection against the delta and beta variants compared with alpha about a year after they recovered from mild COVID-19. While 88% of this group had neutralizing antibodies against alpha, only 47% neutralized delta.

However, recovered health care workers who had received 1 dose of the AstraZeneca, Pfizer, or Moderna vaccines had a marked increase in neutralizing antibody levels against all 3 of these variants compared with their unvaccinated peers. “Vaccination of convalescent individuals boosted the humoral immune response [against delta] well above the threshold of neutralization,” the authors wrote. “These results strongly suggest that vaccination of previously infected individuals will be most likely protective against a large array of circulating viral strains, including variant [d]elta.”

[Dave22reborn]

No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests.

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/new...nic-study.aspx

[gachase21]

I'm perfectly okay with this- As long as the businesses aren't forced to do it.


It is unquestionably an increased cost to the risk pool.


The company I'm with is self-insured- and the hospital cost for unvaccinated vs vaccinated- ick, it sucks.


Just to give a rudimentary example of who this works.


So we have an insurance company that administers the plan- I.e Blue cross anthem, united healthcare, kaiser, etc.

Our yearly goal is for the total cost to come 50% from employee's paid premiums, and 50% paid by the company.

So if the total cost is 100 million a year- we try to budget 50 million from premiums, we pay 50 million


So when a 400k hospital bill happens, we pay it- and hopefully, all those added together- with the other cost- end up matching that portion.

If it gets more expensive than the budget for the year, it eats into company profits- i.e the cost is more than anticipated- but the premiums are set for a year- so we could end the year with the company paying 60% employee premiums 40%

or the company 70% employee premiums 30%


Or worst-case scenario- last year we went to about 85-15 company employees-

What we then do is anticipate the inflated cost, etc- and take the previous year's data to determine next year's premium cost- in hopes of hitting 50% again.

One thing we can say for sure about covid- the cost for unvaccinated is more than vaccinated - and it's not even close


We payout millions in hospital bills for unvaccinated hospitalized- and almost nothing meaningful so far for vaccinated


Say what you want about mortality rates, studies, case fatality rates, etc------- the $$$$ Doesn't lie



And when you talk to brah at the desk that has to shovel these bills across- I get wanting to charge a surcharge if you willingly enter that risk pool.



The same way we surcharge smokers and vappers.




Should the unvaccinated get socked in premiums when the math clearly says they aren't the ones butchering, and inflating, the budget?



Add this lost business, lost hours, and lost productivity in- it's a no-brainer.

[metroins]

No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests.

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/new...nic-study.aspx

A little more studying Dave....

https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org...tion-research/

Cleveland Clinic recommends those who are eligible receive the COVID-19 vaccine.   

In June, we shared research that provided insight into how the immune system protects the body after a confirmed COVID-19 infection. The study followed Cleveland Clinic caregivers over five months as the vaccination process was beginning. The data showed that the vaccine was extremely effective in preventing COVID-19 infection. In addition, during the study, none of the employees who had confirmed positive PCR tests and remained unvaccinated were re-infected.  It’s important to note that this study was conducted in late 2020 and early 2021, before the emergence of the Delta variant.   

More research is needed. We do not know how long the immune system will protect itself against re-infection after COVID-19, as our study only looked at individuals over a five-month period, or how well-protected previously infected individuals are against variants. It is also important to keep in mind that this study was conducted in a population that was younger and healthier than the general population.  

It is safe to receive the COVID-19 vaccine even if you have previously tested positive, and we recommend all those who are eligible receive it.  

[FChumChum]

The dude is a virgin, who supports harsh lockdowns and an unarmed civilian population. Then in the same sentence claims to be conservative......

U mad?

[Dave22reborn]

U mad?

Nope, because it's all true. Does reading about the harsh lockdowns in Australia and Vietnam give you a chubby? Boot-licking bitch.