Anyone here do Breathwork? Like Wim Hof or Grof's holotropic?

[_XYDREX_]

Anyone here do Breathwork? Like Wim Hof or Grof's Holotropic?


I've been doing Hof's intro one thats on youtube for about a yr now - 3 rounds deep breathing followed by exhaled-holds ~90sec.
I've progressed by doing the breaths more rapidly than suggested & doing longer holds coz that seems like the simplest way to progress.
Its super intensive when combined with thc, often reaching full psychedelic levels.

Apparently breathwork balances sympathetic & non-sympathetic nervous system function & alkalizes tissue.

I do have Hof's more advanced routines on disc but havent gotten around to them yet.
I also have Grofs book, started reading it recently.

I know people have mentioned bwork a fair bit in the meditation thread, but would like to hear some more specific experiences with various different protocols & routines; done in combo with plant-meds vs raw; including cold exposure etc.

[doughnutking]

What are Hof's credentials?

Didn't his wife commit suicide and he went a bit mental and started sitting in freezing cold water every day and that is where all of this started? Or did I get the story wrong?

I always thought it was some bro science that blew up after Joe Rogan got involved and then it was monetised.

[doughnutking]

and op can I ask how much you paid for his dvd's and what made you decide to buy them?

[A-GAME]

I did Wim Hof for a few months and found it to be quite tedious tbh. I didn't notice any benefits either. That's not to say there aren't any. I just didn't particularly enjoy practicing it every day so it seemed like a chore with no noticeable result.

Also, bless you MiscPrince.

[_XYDREX_]

What are Hof's credentials?

Didn't his wife commit suicide and he went a bit mental and started sitting in freezing cold water every day and that is where all of this started? Or did I get the story wrong?

I always thought it was some bro science that blew up after Joe Rogan got involved and then it was monetised.

and op can I ask how much you paid for his dvd's and what made you decide to buy them?

I got the discs from a friend, so didnt spend a cent myself. I've heard other people say you can easily download it from torrents etc.

I dont think he has any scientific background himself but he has had numerous medical tests performed on him during his sessions since becoming high profile & that has shown definite physiological benefits. Holds a few world records for cold exposure.

My understanding is that he was obviously pretty screwed up after his wife died which led him down this path.

The skepticism is fair enough, but you can do simple routines straight off youtube for free. Thats what Ive been doing actually.
Theres really not much money in it unless people want to do sessions with qualified trainers, including various cold exposure.
You can go at it yourself quite readily.

Various breathwork modalities have been around since ancient times.
Grof's holotropic routines can get you to changes in states of consciousness just as powerful as various psychedelics, but take a lot of time & effort.
Grof basically revised & simplified eastern ancient techniques.

I did Wim Hof for a few months and found it to be quite tedious tbh. I didn't notice any benefits either. That's not to say there aren't any. I just didn't particularly enjoy practicing it every day so it seemed like a chore with no noticeable result.

Also, bless you MiscPrince.

Yeah it is pretty tedious & takes effort which can become unfeasible if you already spend a fair amount of effort training with weights etc.

When I started I could feel pretty hyperventilated just from his beginners routine.
Now I breathe much quicker & forcefully than what is suggested which can take a fair bit of effort.
Thats why I was thinking if it may be feasible to get to the same result with more normal relaxed breathing rate but say using an oxygen tank to achieve the super-ventilation rather than breathing like a wild maniac. That way you could just do like a relaxed meditation session.
Wondering if anyone has tried anything like this.

[Caeculus]

No I hate the feeling of being high on oxygen. There used to be an oxygen bar here but I think the authorities shut it down.

[_XYDREX_]

No I hate the feeling of being high on oxygen. There used to be an oxygen bar here but I think the authorities shut it down.

Yeah Im gonna have to try that & see the difference.

[TheRedHerring]

Here is some interesting background info about this kind of stuff.

https://www.brighteon.com/e151f1ae-c...7-99104f69bfc9

[_XYDREX_]

Here is some interesting background info about this kind of stuff.

https://www.brighteon.com/e151f1ae-c...7-99104f69bfc9

Awesome, I saw that entire series a couple yrs back, highly recommended.
That doco set is what actually put me onto Hof, Grof etc.
Love Greenfield's material too, his interviews with Rogan are some of the best ever regarding all areas of human performance & longevity.

[AggressiveFun]

I haven't tried it on cannabis but doing it sober made my limbs tingly and feel like I am hyperventilating... a little uncomfortable. But kind of cool how I could hold my breath for like 2 minutes straight.

[_XYDREX_]

I probably should have linked b4 the actual one Im doing - just the basic beginner's:



This was ok for about a month or so (probably 4 times a week) then I started tweaking it by:
*breathing faster (i now probably do ~3 breaths for every breath suggested) then just 'sprint' as fast as possible for the last 10 breaths (probably 5x suggested rate).
*i hold longer as well by about 30 sec.

I haven't tried it on cannabis but doing it sober made my limbs tingly and feel like I am hyperventilating... a little uncomfortable. But kind of cool how I could hold my breath for like 2 minutes straight.

Like Hof says the tingling is normal & ok. Initially will feel weird & uncomfortable but soon get used to it.

With thc, first I found it confusing - kept forgetting where im at during the holds etc. & stopped it.
But kept trying & eventually the routine became second nature where u just run on instinct & forgetting is no longer an issue - well worth it - very powerful psychedelic-like experience with (close-eyed) visuals. Prefer to do it in the dark. (*or facing the setting sun)
Also do often get some very useful ideas regarding whatever problem-solving issues on my mind.
I often do it a second time when in this state, then just some controlled deep-breath meditation afterwards for about 10mins.
What I've found is you actually dont need very much thc to get significant amplification in the breathwork effects. The synergy is fantastic.

For the record, Wim doesnt personally recommend using any psychoactive elements with the breathing, but he is not against it - leaves it up to personal choice.
He just prefers to use his own endogenous supply of everything.
I like comparing both experiences - like Steven Kotler said - 'the information is in the contrast'.

[AdamSMW]

What are Hof's credentials?

Didn't his wife commit suicide and he went a bit mental and started sitting in freezing cold water every day and that is where all of this started? Or did I get the story wrong?

I always thought it was some bro science that blew up after Joe Rogan got involved and then it was monetised.

He climbed Everest naked

[MilkforBrains]

You can condition yourself to the cold for sure. I hate the cold now but in my early 20s, I could walk around why a single layer in the winter.

[Kiop]

Rickson Gracie

[GodfreyW777]

I tried it for a while but my face kept getting itchy so I couldn't get in the zone during the long holds so I stopped..
I may give it another shot though.

[_XYDREX_]

You can condition yourself to the cold for sure. I hate the cold now but in my early 20s, I could walk around why a single layer in the winter.

I do the cold shower thing, takes while to get used to but well worth it.

Both out-of-the-comfort-zone cold & hot exposure is good for you - heat shock / cold shock proteins are released as we evolved to react to occasional such exposures.

I do alternating hot/cold showers as well & was thinking of getting one of those cheap tent saunas after hearing about benefit of heat shock proteins from Greenfield, Rogan, Rhonda Patrick etc.

Apparently Scandinavian studies shown 3x a week sauna increased life expectancy by over a decade or something - very comparable to exercise.

Rickson Gracie

Awesome, I was actually going to look this guy up for more info.
I currently dont give much regard to chest vs stomach breathing but wanted to check it out.

I tried it for a while but my face kept getting itchy so I couldn't get in the zone during the long holds so I stopped..
I may give it another shot though.

I used to get that sometimes too. Keep at it, you should break through it eventually.

[Paranoy]

I do the cold shower thing, takes while to get used to but well worth it.

Both out-of-the-comfort-zone cold & hot exposure is good for you - heat shock / cold shock proteins are released as we evolved to react to occasional such exposures.


I do alternating hot/cold showers as well & was thinking of getting one of those cheap tent saunas after hearing about benefit of heat shock proteins from Greenfield, Rogan, Rhonda Patrick etc.

Was listening to Greenfiled on Rogan the other day, he mentions how too many athletes take long ice baths after training which is a problem.

Apparently it curbs inflammation too much which interferes with recovery process. So better to do it before training or if after do only a short one like less than 10 minutes.

[jizzfarmer]

Yeah I did it for a couple of months I think. I was able to hold my breath for like 2 minutes and it's good for powerlifting. I stopped when the gym closed and haven't done it since. Sht is legit though, still do cold showers.

[_XYDREX_]

Was listening to Greenfiled on Rogan the other day, he mentions how too many athletes take long ice baths after training which is a problem.

Apparently it curbs inflammation too much which interferes with recovery process. So better to do it before training or if after do only a short one like less than 10 minutes.

Yes, similar issue to anti-inflammatory meds which also interfere with recovery process.
But cold exposure, if less than 10 minutes, is ok after exercise - wont interfere with recovery process.

Yeah I did it for a couple of months I think. I was able to hold my breath for like 2 minutes and it's good for powerlifting. I stopped when the gym closed and haven't done it since. Sht is legit though, still do cold showers.

I actually found that the breathwork is more intense soon after waking.
I'll do some light exercise first thing for about 15 minutes, then cold shower, followed by the breathwork.
If breathwork &/or meditation is done soon after waking it appears to have a deeper effect on consciousness - I think what they call the veil is still thinner as your brain gradually wakes into normal consciousness - perhaps not all the filters are fully on yet.

[trippped]

what are the benefits of this buttercup?

[jizzfarmer]

Yes, similar issue to anti-inflammatory meds which also interfere with recovery process.



I actually found that the breathwork is more intense soon after waking.
I'll do some light exercise first thing for about 15 minutes, then cold shower, followed by the breathwork.
If breathwork or meditation is done soon after waking it appears to have a deeper effect on consciousness - I think what they call the veil is still thinner as your brain gradually wakes into normal consciousness - perhaps not all the filters are fully on yet.

Yeah I used to do it right after waking up. Got good lung capacity gains srs and helped my lifts. All gone now though since I haven't lifted or done sht since the gyms closed. Phuking covid phuked all our gains up.

[Paranoy]

I haven't tried it on cannabis but doing it sober made my limbs tingly and feel like I am hyperventilating... a little uncomfortable. But kind of cool how I could hold my breath for like 2 minutes straight.

You are literally hyperventilating, I think thats the whole point.
With getting visuals like mandalas, I never know if you are actually seeing something of any significance or just seeing random stars from approaching fainting & your mind just invents something out of them..

I have done Hof's more challenging routines that include doing some exercise while holding exhaled breath - pushups etc.

[_XYDREX_]

I tried it for a while but my face kept getting itchy so I couldn't get in the zone during the long holds so I stopped..
I may give it another shot though.

Holy sht man, like I mentioned I used to get this myself, just push thru it. LOL After u mentioned it can u believe I started getting it again ??

You are literally hyperventilating, I think thats the whole point.
With getting visuals like mandalas, I never know if you are actually seeing something of any significance or just seeing random stars from approaching fainting & your mind just invents something out of them..

I have done Hof's more challenging routines that include doing some exercise while holding exhaled breath - pushups etc.

You know... I used to contemplate the exact same thing...

We see, in many forms, the situation you describe... seeing stars from close to passing out.. --> conditioned response --> just focus on getting back to.... 'consensus realty'

'Consensus Reality', a term, like explained by Graham Hancock in the 2016 Psychedelica series is something we cling onto..

So... if we experience something else, like seeing stars from close to passing out, we start to 'intentionally' (consciously) focus realllyyyy hard on getting bacckk....

But what if we actually 'consciously' examine wtf is really going on.... now, that may be stretching the definition of 'consciously' (defly NOT something we are trained or raised to do).

I'm starting to think there may be a shyt-load we can actually learn from the state of consciousness of the state: about to lose consciousness.......

Perhaps hyper-ventilating can take us there..... like a re-boot of the brain... where the filters we normally have GRADUALLY come back on... remember we filter over 90% of the neurological info that comes into our brain via social-conditioning




So perhaps those filters only gradually come back on if we are in a state of:- about to lose consciousness ..... so we can experience a certain state with only some of the pre-conditioned filters activated, as they slowly come back on one a at a time..... to give us a glimpse of what else...

[Silvercock]

I've done the ones with the stretching during the breath holds. Very effective at clearing the mind, getting ready for focus etc.
Great to do in the mornings, just started getting used to cold showers (every time I'm about to get in keep thinking of that scene from Seinfeld when George says 'Theyre for psychotics').
Good stuff though.

You are literally hyperventilating, I think thats the whole point.
With getting visuals like mandalas, I never know if you are actually seeing something of any significance or just seeing random stars from approaching fainting & your mind just invents something out of them..

That's pretty interesting, but your mind does form some pretty intricate shapes while in this state.
Pretty hard to argue that its just going funny from being close to passing out, where logically you would expect 'break-down' of the picture you are seeing rather than an advanced assembly of complex patterns.

[_XYDREX_]

That's pretty interesting, but your mind does form some pretty intricate shapes while in this state.
Pretty hard to argue that its just going funny from being close to passing out, where logically you would expect 'break-down' of the picture you are seeing rather than an advanced assembly of complex patterns.

Yes I agree with this. Sometimes breathwork visuals can start off as just a cloudy blur of stars, but do often form into more intricate stuff later on in the session & as you gain experience.

In any case people shouldnt focus too much on this as there are many physiological & mental benefits, not just some visual entertainment. Visuals can vary a lot bw people & significance is not clear. Many find breathwork great for clearing the mind & deep thought without seeing complex mandalas. Ive spoken to ppl who dont get nice patterns & disappointingly think its not working, I think this is the wrong way to view it.
Having said that, visuals do initially attract many out of curiosity

[overtrainbrah]

What are Hof's credentials?

Didn't his wife commit suicide and he went a bit mental and started sitting in freezing cold water every day and that is where all of this started? Or did I get the story wrong?

I always thought it was some bro science that blew up after Joe Rogan got involved and then it was monetised.

pretty fuking epic that he just discovered this by himself if that's the case, like finding a cheat code in a video game lmao

[Bzdura]

Anyone here do Breathwork? Like Wim Hof or Grof's Holotropic?


I've been doing Hof's intro one thats on youtube for about a yr now - 3 rounds deep breathing followed by exhaled-holds ~90sec.
.

What position you doing it in?

I know people they do like splits or hamstring stretches while doing Wim, I know in the vid u linked Wim says sit, lie whatever so wondering if any additional benefit from stretches at the same time or is it just to save timne doing both things at once?.

I did the intro run a dozen times or so semi-seriously, a few times I did it driving in the car LOL to save time - make sure not much traffic around on quiet street.

[_XYDREX_]

pretty fuking epic that he just discovered this by himself if that's the case, like finding a cheat code in a video game lmao

Like Dr. Stan Grof explains, both emotional &/or physical trauma has the potential to trigger major personal transformation.
He has seen numerous examples of this during his career, as well as referencing many traditional indigenous stories such as those who have been struck by lightning becoming spiritual & physical healers.

[_XYDREX_]

What position you doing it in?

I know people they do like splits or hamstring stretches while doing Wim, I know in the vid u linked Wim says sit, lie whatever so wondering if any additional benefit from stretches at the same time or is it just to save timne doing both things at once?.

I did the intro run a dozen times or so semi-seriously, a few times I did it driving in the car LOL to save time - make sure not much traffic around on quiet street.

I just sit on the floor in an adductor stretch with the feet together.

During the last 15 sec of exhaled breath hold I try to bring my head down as far as possible. Sometimes, during that last 15 sec, I'll go up onto my knees & put my head on the floor. On the breathe-in I'll sit back up, leaning back onto something (sofa edge).

For some reason I find that having my head low during those final moments b4 the breathe-in amplifies altered consciousness.
With that in mind, I'd like to try the routine on one of those inversion tables where you pivot at the hip & can easily rotate bw upright & upside down positions.

I've done the whole routine lying down with feet elevated & found it slightly different.
When I get my hands on an inversion table, id like to try head low during the latter phase of long hold, followed by head high for the breathe-in.

Thats my experience, Wim has had some medical tests performed while stretching during the breathwork which from memory showed some additional effect. I cant remember the specifics but if I find it I'll link it here.

BTW wouldnt recommend during driving LOL, I can see how it would be tempting during long commutes to save time. If you do, pls only very mildly as u can easily lose awareness of your surroundings.

[delineator]

When I started I could feel pretty hyperventilated just from his beginners routine.
Now I breathe much quicker & forcefully than what is suggested which can take a fair bit of effort.
Thats why I was thinking if it may be feasible to get to the same result with more normal relaxed breathing rate but say using an oxygen tank to achieve the super-ventilation rather than breathing like a wild maniac. That way you could just do like a relaxed meditation session.
Wondering if anyone has tried anything like this.


I probably should have linked b4 the actual one Im doing - just the basic beginner's:
This was ok for about a month or so (probably 4 times a week) then I started tweaking it by:
*breathing faster (i now probably do ~3 breaths for every breath suggested) then just 'sprint' as fast as possible for the last 10 breaths (probably 5x suggested rate).
*i hold longer as well by about 30 sec.

It would certainly be interesting to see the effect of enriched oxygen air-supply during breathwork, but effects of super-ventilation is just one aspect of such practices. I believe it would be a mistake to focus entirely on this alone.

Traditional practices using breathwork like yoga say the most important aspect is how the motion of the lungs affect specific nerve pathways that lead to increased control over various parts of your body. They view this motion as a flywheel for the rest of the body's functions & actual breath is just one of those functions, but not the sole focus.

So breath is a result of this motion but not the whole point. I believe most breathwork should be rhythmic (rather than wild erratic sprinting) as it fine-tunes control aspects.

The pic below is a page from a Raja Yoga text from over 100 yrs ago. I reckon Stan Grof's Holotropic book you are reading will probably state similar views (although I have never read it myself) as its based on ancient practices.