AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VII

[nightanole]

So, I'm going to have to skip my workout today. Cycle 3 and today would be medium day 11 reps. 2nd covid shot has me down.

With Monday being test day, should I do another heavy day tomorrow or Friday, or medium day tomorrow and light day Saturday?

Doing a heavy heavy week would be best with a friday workout. But you can not work out 72 hours before a heavy, including test day, so sat is a no go.

Your last choice is to YOLO it and just skip everything till test day. Any iffy passes, you do the normal "do 1 set of 10 reps with the 110% or whatever new working weight" on light day of that week, to see if it was a true pass.

[FitBeyondForty]

Doing a heavy heavy week would be best with a friday workout. But you can not work out 72 hours before a heavy, including test day, so sat is a no go.

Your last choice is to YOLO it and just skip everything till test day. Any iffy passes, you do the normal "do 1 set of 10 reps with the 110% or whatever new working weight" on light day of that week, to see if it was a true pass.

Ok. I think I'd rather do the 2nd heavy on Friday and regular test day on Monday.

[FitBeyondForty]

Ok. So test day didn't happen due to Thanksgiving etc.

So I'm thinking I can repeat the medium and light day 11 rep workouts tomorrow and Friday and then do test day Monday.

Thoughts?

[nightanole]

Ok. So test day didn't happen due to Thanksgiving etc.

So I'm thinking I can repeat the medium and light day 11 rep workouts tomorrow and Friday and then do test day Monday.

Thoughts?

You can attempt to, but repeating 10 rep and 11 rep weeks are torture since they are not sustainable. But since you took a week off, it may work.

But the generic response is just to start the cycle over at 9 rep week.

[FitBeyondForty]

You can attempt to, but repeating 10 rep and 11 rep weeks are torture since they are not sustainable. But since you took a week off, it may work.

But the generic response is just to start the cycle over at 9 rep week.

Ugh, was hoping it wouldn't be that much of a set back.

[nightanole]

Ugh, was hoping it wouldn't be that much of a set back.

You can always just say fork the police, and do a 10 rep test. Just add 110-115% to all your lifts, and do 10 reps of each. If you fail any, you repeat with your current working weight on that lift.

[FitBeyondForty]

You can always just say fork the police, and do a 10 rep test. Just add 110-115% to all your lifts, and do 10 reps of each. If you fail any, you repeat with your current working weight on that lift.

So, just one set of 10 reps for each exercise?

And if I pass them all I start back at a regular 8 rep cycle with that weight?

[nightanole]

So, just one set of 10 reps for each exercise?

And if I pass them all I start back at a regular 8 rep cycle with that weight?

Just like "test day". The exercises you get 10 reps in, you start next cycle with that weight. The exercises you fail at, you repeat with this cycles working weight.

And yes, its just 1 set of ten for each exercise.

And then next workout is the start of the next standard cycle of 2 sets of 8.

[FitBeyondForty]

Just like "test day". The exercises you get 10 reps in, you start next cycle with that weight. The exercises you fail at, you repeat with this cycles working weight.

And yes, its just 1 set of ten for each exercise.

And then next workout is the start of the next standard cycle of 2 sets of 8.

Shouldn't they all be an easy pass? I mean, I've completed the 3 days of 11 reps with 2 warm up sets and 2 working sets. Shouldn't one work weight set ( no warm ups) be easy?

EDIT: I forgot about the adding 10%-15% part.
Makes more sense now.

[FitBeyondForty]

Ok. What way would be more beneficial?

Start back at the 9-10 rep range and work back up to test day or do 10 rep "test" at the higher weight and go from there?

[nightanole]

Ok. What way would be more beneficial?

Start back at the 9-10 rep range and work back up to test day or do 10 rep "test" at the higher weight and go from there?

Id say the 10 rep test.

If you reset to 9 rep week, thats 4 weeks of training before you can bump
If you do the 10 rep test, thats dam near zero weeks of training before can bump, or worst case, 5 weeks of training before you can bump if you fail every test.

I think its worth the 1 week risk.

[t0msto]

Hi,

I’m 27 guy with a desk job, first cycle 4th week (11 reps) at medium weights. Had lower back pain today during the workouts. Not sure if it makes sense, but the sides of my lower back hurt? Still made all my reps but it was through some pain. Am I doing the exercises wrong or it could be something else?

Thanks

[nightanole]

Hi,

I’m 27 guy with a desk job, first cycle 4th week (11 reps) at medium weights. Had lower back pain today during the workouts. Not sure if it makes sense, but the sides of my lower back hurt? Still made all my reps but it was through some pain. Am I doing the exercises wrong or it could be something else?

Thanks

Yes you are doing an exercise wrong, not sure which one. Generally the one that hurts doing it, is just revealing a problem in another exercise.

But what you are feeling, is fatigue(or hopefully not strain) of the spinal erectors. These are 2 muscle lumps that are were your back curves in, just above the hips. These little guys have steel bands that run up your spine. There job under normal circumstances is to keep your back aligned while under stress. These guys are really really good at keeping your back straight and not moving. Now what these little guys suck at is "dynamic work". So if your back is flexing during squats, and rows for example, you are going to fatigue them VERY quickly. And if you flexing your back up to get the weight up, called "backing it up" then you REALLY are going to stress the little guys out.

To put it into perspective, doing the "old school" stiff legged deadlift (you will find pictures of arnold doing it) is dynamic work for the spinal erectors. But its always with a maximum of HALF your squat working weight. So just imagine the strain on them if you are using them dynamically in a true squat.


I would film yourself from the side, and see if you are flexing your back towards the end of the sets when you get tired. Odds are what is happening is your primary movers are giving out (because this is your first cycle and they have not built up endurance yet) and the erectors are trying to complete the rep.

[t0msto]

Yes you are doing an exercise wrong, not sure which one. Generally the one that hurts doing it, is just revealing a problem in another exercise.

But what you are feeling, is fatigue(or hopefully not strain) of the spinal erectors. These are 2 muscle lumps that are were your back curves in, just above the hips. These little guys have steel bands that run up your spine. There job under normal circumstances is to keep your back aligned while under stress. These guys are really really good at keeping your back straight and not moving. Now what these little guys suck at is "dynamic work". So if your back is flexing during squats, and rows for example, you are going to fatigue them VERY quickly. And if you flexing your back up to get the weight up, called "backing it up" then you REALLY are going to stress the little guys out.

To put it into perspective, doing the "old school" stiff legged deadlift (you will find pictures of arnold doing it) is dynamic work for the spinal erectors. But its always with a maximum of HALF your squat working weight. So just imagine the strain on them if you are using them dynamically in a true squat.


I would film yourself from the side, and see if you are flexing your back towards the end of the sets when you get tired. Odds are what is happening is your primary movers are giving out (because this is your first cycle and they have not built up endurance yet) and the erectors are trying to complete the rep.

Thanks a lot. I’ll record myself doing the exercises to try and address what I’m doing wrong.

[itsjoedoe]

Thanks a lot. I’ll record myself doing the exercises to try and address what I’m doing wrong.

I also had lower backpain. I think I went a bit to hard, and my body wasn't ready to adjust.
I swapped Rows out for Cable rows 2 weeks, and that seemd to help a lot.

[FitBeyondForty]

Id say the 10 rep test.

If you reset to 9 rep week, thats 4 weeks of training before you can bump
If you do the 10 rep test, thats dam near zero weeks of training before can bump, or worst case, 5 weeks of training before you can bump if you fail every test.

I think its worth the 1 week risk.

So I did this yesterday.

Passed them all. BOR was a close one.

Going to start the next cycle (4) on Monday.

Here are my weights.

Squat - 175lbs
Bench - 125lbs
BOR - 165lbs
OHP. - 65lbs
SLDL. - 125lbs
Curls. - 75lbs

I think I may need to get an ez curl bar. Getting some pain in my left elbow. Was fine the first 2 cycles, but with more weight I can feel the strain.

[nightanole]

So I did this yesterday.

Passed them all. BOR was a close one.

Going to start the next cycle (4) on Monday.

Here are my weights.

Squat - 175lbs
Bench - 125lbs
BOR - 165lbs
OHP. - 65lbs
SLDL. - 125lbs
Curls. - 75lbs

I think I may need to get an ez curl bar. Getting some pain in my left elbow. Was fine the first 2 cycles, but with more weight I can feel the strain.

I have to flip my grip on rows every 2 cycles to keep from getting tennis elbow.

EZ bar curl will help with bicep tendon issues, but wont help with the joint. At best hammer grip is prehab for bench press elbow issues.

[FitBeyondForty]

I have to flip my grip on rows every 2 cycles to keep from getting tennis elbow.

EZ bar curl will help with bicep tendon issues, but wont help with the joint. At best hammer grip is prehab for bench press elbow issues.

The pain is along the top (with palm up) just to the left of center.

I've used an ez curl before and it seemed to help.

How do the weights look? In "spec"?

[nightanole]

The pain is along the top (with palm up) just to the left of center.

I've used an ez curl before and it seemed to help.

How do the weights look? In "spec"?

Sounds like a bicep tendon, so yes ez or hammer would be great

Everything looks in spec. However if you pass bench and fail OHP, you will be out of spec next cycle.

[ddosh]

Hey there!

I want to do allpros workout but i can only workout 2x/week. What do i need to adjust?

Thanks!

[nightanole]

Hey there!

I want to do allpros workout but i can only workout 2x/week. What do i need to adjust?

Thanks!

Yea do two heavies, at least 72 hours apart, and 3 sets for the first 3 exercises instead of two. "test day" is still 2 sets of everything.

[jasonp360]

Yea do two heavies, at least 72 hours apart, and 3 sets for the first 3 exercises instead of two. "test day" is still 2 sets of everything.

Question on this two day structure:

I fell off the wagon 7 years ago at 40yrs, being the best shape ever after doign the All Pro Beginner routine strictly religously for a few years. I loved it.

Fast forward, not working out for 7 years, this year at age 47 I started it again BUT to keep things "simple" and maybe make faster gains, I have been doing every day a heavy day, with 3 working sets, 3 times a week. ie: I do 2 warmups, 3 working sets, 3x a week, all the same weight, every other day.

My question is: do you think if I drop one of my workouts and just do two a week, 72h apart, I'll actually make better gains?

Or wait until I start really stalling out before changing anything from 3x a week?

Thank you

[nightanole]

Question on this two day structure:

I fell off the wagon 7 years ago at 40yrs, being the best shape ever after doign the All Pro Beginner routine strictly religously for a few years. I loved it.

Fast forward, not working out for 7 years, this year at age 47 I started it again BUT to keep things "simple" and maybe make faster gains, I have been doing every day a heavy day, with 3 working sets, 3 times a week. ie: I do 2 warmups, 3 working sets, 3x a week, all the same weight, every other day.

My question is: do you think if I drop one of my workouts and just do two a week, 72h apart, I'll actually make better gains?

Or wait until I start really stalling out before changing anything from 3x a week?

Thank you

The joke is "if you can do heavies 3x a week, you are not going heavy enough".

Now what you could do for "max gainz" is the new auto regulated variant i put in the faq. That program you could run 5 days a week if you wanted to. The program will auto adjust to your unique recovery and diet. So if you were bulking the reps would not drop as much, and you would "pass" more often. Running the same thing on a cut, would result in much lower rep totals at the end of the week, and several weeks extra before you "pass".


But the 2 heavies 72 hours apart will result in the same amount of gains as the HML, but it is DAM hard, and most people burn out and stop running it after 2 cycles. Its fine to run a Heavy heavy when you know you will have a hetic week ahead. I call it the "holiday pattern" so you dont have to workout on a birthday/graduation/big game etc.

[jasonp360]

The joke is "if you can do heavies 3x a week, you are not going heavy enough".

Now what you could do for "max gainz" is the new auto regulated variant i put in the faq. That program you could run 5 days a week if you wanted to. The program will auto adjust to your unique recovery and diet. So if you were bulking the reps would not drop as much, and you would "pass" more often. Running the same thing on a cut, would result in much lower rep totals at the end of the week, and several weeks extra before you "pass".


But the 2 heavies 72 hours apart will result in the same amount of gains as the HML, but it is DAM hard, and most people burn out and stop running it after 2 cycles. Its fine to run a Heavy heavy when you know you will have a hetic week ahead. I call it the "holiday pattern" so you dont have to workout on a birthday/graduation/big game etc.

Thank you
This makes perfect sense because in my case, being scared of injury I started lighter then my 10 rep max to REALLY ease into things. So, the reality is I'm probably not _really_ doing 3 true heavies yet. Maybe one or two more cycles - then it will most likely destroy me.

I better flip to the real program before I get discouraged when that point comes.

Thank you.

You konw it's funny, I read all these "can I do this instead" questions and always think "JUST DO THE PROGRAM!" but then when MY brain thinks of something different, for some reason that's the special exception?!?!

LOL.

Ok I get it. I will just do the damn program.

[FitBeyondForty]

So I'm doing warm-ups for every exercise up until I hit the 10 rep range. Once I hit the 10-12 rep range on heavy day I'm doing warm ups for the first three as required, but not the rest. On medium and light days in the 10 and 12 rep range I'm doing warm-ups for all of them. Come test day I'm only doing warm-ups for the first three again.

Is that cheating?

[nightanole]

So I'm doing warm-ups for every exercise up until I hit the 10 rep range. Once I hit the 10-12 rep range on heavy day I'm doing warm ups for the first three as required, but not the rest. On medium and light days in the 10 and 12 rep range I'm doing warm-ups for all of them. Come test day I'm only doing warm-ups for the first three again.

Is that cheating?

Nope. I tell people to do 2 sets of 10, using 2 weights, for the entire cycle. No fancy different weights for heavy day vs light day, or 8 reps on 8 rep day, but 12 reps on 12 rep day. And if you want to do warmups for every exercise go for it. If you want to do some band traction or other prehab in-between exercises go for it.

Id say the only way you would be cheating is if you "planned" on taking longer rests than usual in between exercises, on test day. And remember we dropped warmups for everything but the first 3 exercises, because it was a bit too much volume for some people. Personally id be doing traction/prehab on the last four exercises vs warmups, but its whatever works for you. I some times have to do extra warmup sets for OHP, and thats normally a no no due to the high chance of failure.

[dmesg]

Hello, long time lurker, thanks nightanole for all your work.

A bit of my background, 34 year old male, 6'0'', currently 174 lbs. Started lifting back in 2016, but was never consistent and never got to go to the gym for more than a few months at a time. I've done a ton of reading about nutrition for a while, and I think that I have that somewhat under control, so I managed to stay somewhat lean.

I've run AllPro's in the past, and it's the program I enjoy the most. I started it again recently and I'm at the first cycle, just completed heavy day of week 4 yesterday.

I have a few questions I didn't find searching previous posts:

1) Is it OK if I start the workout with bench press? For logistical reasons, it's best for me to start with it so I can then reserve a rack for the rest of the exercises (busy gym)

2) Are my lifts "in spec"? I'm happy with my squat, but bench and OHP seem low. My stats (weights I lift on worksets for heavy day) are the following:

Squat = 135
Bench = 105
Row = 85
OHP = 55
SLDL = 95
Curl = 50

3) I don't really struggle with Row and SLDL, is it OK if I bump more than 10% on those if I pass them on test day?

4) Finally, re: bulking or cutting. See pics for how I currently look. I was on a low cal diet that brought me down from 81 kg (heaviest I've been in my life) to 79 kg body weight, but I was starting to feel low energy so I decided to start tracking again and I was evidently not eating enough cals (2000 on avg). I switched to the vanilla AllPro diet (100P / 200-300 C / 100 F) properly tracked, so I can tune from there. I already feel better.

Question is, should I lose that belly fat first? or should I aim to build some muscle? I do feel that my shoulders and chest need some work before I can start cutting. What do you think? Overall, I know I need to build muscle everywhere, I know I'm a skinny MFer. But I'm not so sure on how to approach that part at this point.

Thanks!

[nightanole]

Hello, long time lurker, thanks nightanole for all your work.

A bit of my background, 34 year old male, 6'0'', currently 174 lbs. Started lifting back in 2016, but was never consistent and never got to go to the gym for more than a few months at a time. I've done a ton of reading about nutrition for a while, and I think that I have that somewhat under control, so I managed to stay somewhat lean.

I've run AllPro's in the past, and it's the program I enjoy the most. I started it again recently and I'm at the first cycle, just completed heavy day of week 4 yesterday.

I have a few questions I didn't find searching previous posts:

1) Is it OK if I start the workout with bench press? For logistical reasons, it's best for me to start with it so I can then reserve a rack for the rest of the exercises (busy gym)

2) Are my lifts "in spec"? I'm happy with my squat, but bench and OHP seem low. My stats (weights I lift on worksets for heavy day) are the following:

Squat = 135
Bench = 105
Row = 85
OHP = 55
SLDL = 95
Curl = 50

3) I don't really struggle with Row and SLDL, is it OK if I bump more than 10% on those if I pass them on test day?

4) Finally, re: bulking or cutting. See pics for how I currently look. I was on a low cal diet that brought me down from 81 kg (heaviest I've been in my life) to 79 kg body weight, but I was starting to feel low energy so I decided to start tracking again and I was evidently not eating enough cals (2000 on avg). I switched to the vanilla AllPro diet (100P / 200-300 C / 100 F) properly tracked, so I can tune from there. I already feel better.

Question is, should I lose that belly fat first? or should I aim to build some muscle? I do feel that my shoulders and chest need some work before I can start cutting. What do you think? Overall, I know I need to build muscle everywhere, I know I'm a skinny MFer. But I'm not so sure on how to approach that part at this point.

Thanks!

Squat/bench/row need to be done first in no particular order, followed by the rest in no particular order.

OHP will be low if you pass bench and fail OHP on test day. You really want to keep it above 60% of bench.

10% bumps in the min, not the max. If you want to try for 15-20%, then on light day of test week do one set of 10 with the "new weight". If you can get in 10 reps you are gold for next cycle, else stick to 10% ish.

Honestly for you id lose about 2-3kg in one cycle, then slow bulk 1kg for 3 cycles and see where you are at. It will be much easier to cut the first cycle when you are learning the lifts and building up endurance. Its going to be much harder to cut when things get rough. Plus it will have more motivation to see some muscle separation vs your meat tubes just getting thicker. And for additional motivation take lots of side shots, humans get thicker faster than they get wider.

[itsjoedoe]

I'm playing soccer 2-3 times a week, my legs will explode if I do 2 soccer trainings + 3 Squats a week. Will it be ok for me to drop squat 1 day a week, and replace it with chin-ups?

[nightanole]

I'm playing soccer 2-3 times a week, my legs will explode if I do 2 soccer trainings + 3 Squats a week. Will it be ok for me to drop squat 1 day a week, and replace it with chin-ups?

If that is the case, i would run "10 sets of 3", or greyskull lp, for the squat pattern.

Your choice:

sets of 3 with 30 seconds of rest. Stop at a sloooooow rep. If you get in all 10 sets, bump the weight 5-10% to knock you down to 5-6 sets next session.

2 sets of 5 with at least 3 minutes of rest. And a final AMRAP set. If you get at least 5 reps, bump 2.5lbs next session. If you get at least 10 reps, bump 5lbs next session. If you get less than 5 reps, instant reset 10% and start working your way up again. Even if it was a "bad day" you would end up getting over 10 reps for several sessions in a row.