More exercises as a beginner could lead to more developed physique?

[fattofame3]

Hey Guys,

Just another curious questions here. What are your guys thought on noobs or novices doing intermediate programs or a range of lifts for body parts when starting out? I am asking this questions because I was thinking lets say a new person does a full body spilt for a year right, in that split they are doing most compound lifts with some accessory lifts etc but not many exercises. Now if we look on the other hand if we say have a new person doing an intermediate program that is like the full body and accessory lifts with some additional lifts, would they not develop a more fuller, not fuller but lets say developed or more hypertrophy all over compared to the other that is doing the main lifts with some accessory ? For example person 1 is doing chest but it does not include incline bench for the year in his novice routine and person 2 another novice not following a program but going balls to the wall with every machine at the gym is adding incline. At the end of the year wouldn't person 2 be more developed in the chest area compared to person 1 as they were targeting the chest in so called more areas hypothetically speaking than person 1 and this could apply to other body parts aswell. In theory person 2 will look much better than person 1 lol? Thoughts?

Cheers

[faithbrah]

probably not. there's a reason beginner programs are for beginners, otherwise every beginner would be doing an intermediate program

[MilkforBrains]

Seems pointless. How hard and intensely you train is more important than whether you do fancy excerices. Weighted dips, chin-ups, Smith machine and barbell squats are more than enough for a beginner.

Take what I say with a great of salt though, I've only really done calisthenics.

[SuffolkPunch]

Not necessarily

1. Intermediate programs have reduced rates of planned progression - so you could be taking longer than you actually need to progress

2. Volume requirements are lower for novices. As a one-off workout, perhaps more will do more - but that doesn't mean you can sustain this over time. You have to balance it against fatigue

3. You adapt to what you do. Doing the max volume you can do now effectively paints you into a corner. Later when you need an increase in volume to sustain progress, you won't be able to cope with one.

[WolfRose7]

I think the biggest problem for most novices is skill acquisition and in a lot of cases, just proprioception in general.

Adding too many exercises is a good way to stay **** at doing them all.

For an example I'll take most Martial Art syllabuses, most probably have at maximum 10 techniques for the first grade (3-6 months of training probably 2x a week).

So there is an argument that doing more might contribute more, but doing less and more focused is quite likely to build a better base to work off in future

[air2fakie]

More is better, or as much as possible, is a common mistake for many beginners.

Also common are beginners who spend much more time talking about working out than just working out consistently. This leads to endless questions about how to get the best pump, why someone else seems to get better results, why most programs don't include shrugs, what program or changes would be best for their special needs, and in the end - the questions almost all seem the same and they end up spinning their wheels.

The solution to the above is generally to get on a proper program and eat properly based on your goals, do it consistently and progress over time, then re-assess or adjust after you've actually made gains. There's nothing wrong with wanting to learn more while you work out but you have to make sure this isn't constantly leading you in the wrong direction.

[TolerantLactose]

I get why you ponder things like this. With the amount of self-sabotage you do, it very unlikely you'll move beyond the beginner stage.

[RapidFail]

In direct answer to the to the thread title, yes but only
to a certain extent. For example, I think it's likely a beginner would gain more muscle and more balanced muscle growth doing Fierce 5 Novice than Starting Strength, mostly due to the greater volume and partly due to the extra lift variety.

I don't think this extends to beginners doing intermediate programs, for the reasons SuffolkPunch outlined.

[DCSpartan]

A beginner who trains like an intermediate or advanced lifter is leaving gains on the table. You dont need 3 different biceps exercises and 20 sets ofback exercises - doing pullups will do more good in less time. Once you get up to multiple sets of 10-12 you can branch out.

[fattofame3]

probably not. there's a reason beginner programs are for beginners, otherwise every beginner would be doing an intermediate program

Valid point.

[fattofame3]

Seems pointless. How hard and intensely you train is more important than whether you do fancy excerices. Weighted dips, chin-ups, Smith machine and barbell squats are more than enough for a beginner.

Take what I say with a great of salt though, I've only really done calisthenics.

All opinions are welcome never know what someone may say that could have a positive effect.

[fattofame3]

Not necessarily

1. Intermediate programs have reduced rates of planned progression - so you could be taking longer than you actually need to progress

2. Volume requirements are lower for novices. As a one-off workout, perhaps more will do more - but that doesn't mean you can sustain this over time. You have to balance it against fatigue

3. You adapt to what you do. Doing the max volume you can do now effectively paints you into a corner. Later when you need an increase in volume to sustain progress, you won't be able to cope with one.

1. I see.

2. I have experienced this so get what you are saying.

3. Could you elaborate on this point further? Are you saying that for example If I did an intermediate program and maxed it out to my full potential that I would not be able to increase my total volume as I would have adapted to my workload? and therefore would require more excessive volume in order to milk the tank. Where as if I do a novice routine I could max it to my full potential then milk the intermediate program for the extra gains with the additional volume? My question would be how would it matter though as I would basically be doing the same or similar exercises or are you referring to total volume as in sets x reps x weight?

[fattofame3]

I think the biggest problem for most novices is skill acquisition and in a lot of cases, just proprioception in general.

Adding too many exercises is a good way to stay **** at doing them all.

For an example I'll take most Martial Art syllabuses, most probably have at maximum 10 techniques for the first grade (3-6 months of training probably 2x a week).

So there is an argument that doing more might contribute more, but doing less and more focused is quite likely to build a better base to work off in future

Nice perspective or analogy did not think of it like that. I guess I am trying to reach for everything at once in real life and lifting which probably no bueno.

[fattofame3]

More is better, or as much as possible, is a common mistake for many beginners.

Also common are beginners who spend much more time talking about working out than just working out consistently. This leads to endless questions about how to get the best pump, why someone else seems to get better results, why most programs don't include shrugs, what program or changes would be best for their special needs, and in the end - the questions almost all seem the same and they end up spinning their wheels.

The solution to the above is generally to get on a proper program and eat properly based on your goals, do it consistently and progress over time, then re-assess or adjust after you've actually made gains. There's nothing wrong with wanting to learn more while you work out but you have to make sure this isn't constantly leading you in the wrong direction.

Man you did your research on me hahaha this hit hard but in a good way :l I get what you are saying and everyone is saying the same things you are and you guys are right. I am however curious but that is not an exercise as you have mentioned. Thanks for the advice, probably what I needed to hear.

[fattofame3]

I get why you ponder things like this. With the amount of self-sabotage you do, it very unlikely you'll move beyond the beginner stage.

The savage and truth is on another level but your right. I do train when I am asking these questions but always looking for the optimal way but like others have stated ****ing do it, see what happens then evaluate in lifting.

[SuffolkPunch]

1. I see.

2. I have experienced this so get what you are saying.

3. Could you elaborate on this point further? Are you saying that for example If I did an intermediate program and maxed it out to my full potential that I would not be able to increase my total volume as I would have adapted to my workload? and therefore would require more excessive volume in order to milk the tank. Where as if I do a novice routine I could max it to my full potential then milk the intermediate program for the extra gains with the additional volume? My question would be how would it matter though as I would basically be doing the same or similar exercises or are you referring to total volume as in sets x reps x weight?

You would have been doing more than you need for the same progression.

If you can't increase your volume without overreaching then you can't progress. The only solution to this is to take time off completely to re sensitise. More time wasted.

[fattofame3]

In direct answer to the to the thread title, yes but only
to a certain extent. For example, I think it's likely a beginner would gain more muscle and more balanced muscle growth doing Fierce 5 Novice than Starting Strength, mostly due to the greater volume and partly due to the extra lift variety.

I don't think this extends to beginners doing intermediate programs, for the reasons SuffolkPunch outlined.

Yeap

[fattofame3]

/closed

[TonedJordan]

What are people’s thoughts on progressive volume increase during a cutting phase?

[SuffolkPunch]

What are people’s thoughts on progressive volume increase during a cutting phase?

You can try it to see if you can recomp - I would do it more conservatively and only in response to slowdowns in progress. You can run out of steam (overreach) more easily during a cut and then your only option is to fall back on maintenance and abandon any hopes of recomp.

[pondman]

I'd spend a year working on the compounds lifts, building mass and strength. You are going to be able to do 80% of what you want with compounds. And you'll be a heck of lot stronger than when you started.

At the point you've got reasonable strength, then take a look at yourself. Everyone has a couple areas that look great. And everyone has weaknesses. That's the point when you want to start filling in your shoulder or back with different angles. And you'll know how your legs fill in. Some people can grow legs, others got to change their routines.

[TonedJordan]

You can try it to see if you can recomp - I would do it more conservatively and only in response to slowdowns in progress. You can run out of steam (overreach) more easily during a cut and then your only option is to fall back on maintenance and abandon any hopes of recomp.

I think I will try adding one set every other week, as I’m only going to be cutting for another 8.5 weeks until September, then I’ll maintenance for a month and then back on the bulk train!

Thanks for the response!

Edit; Just realized I actually meant to post my question in the other thread but accidentally posted it here, hence why I couldn’t find it!