A bit confused about how body recomp works

[Runway37]

Recently I've started the process of trying to achieve a better physical aesthetic. My primary goal is to lose fat, and hopefully add muscle in the process. I am doing a strength and conditioning workout 3 days a week then trying to run 3 other days.

As for diet, I am restricting calories to 1690 a day, with calories earned for calories burned. Trying to get sufficient protein and veggies, with good fats. According to mapmyfitness my protein goal is 102g a day. I am doing pretty well on the other macros as well, though I can go over sodium sometimes.

My question is if it is reasonable to be losing fat and building muscle at the same time. And if so what can I expect? I'm learning that building muscle can really take a significant number of calories, which doesn't seem to jive with the fat loss.

So what is reasonable to expect? Do I lose fat then build muscle? Or can I do both at the same time?

Currently I am 6'0" and 204lbs as a 33yo male. I started at 218 in November. A dexascan when I was 212 showed me at 34% bodyfat.

[willybrokeback]

Recently I've started the process of trying to achieve a better physical aesthetic. My primary goal is to lose fat, and hopefully add muscle in the process. I am doing a strength and conditioning workout 3 days a week then trying to run 3 other days.

As for diet, I am restricting calories to 1690 a day, with calories earned for calories burned. Trying to get sufficient protein and veggies, with good fats. According to mapmyfitness my protein goal is 102g a day. I am doing pretty well on the other macros as well, though I can go over sodium sometimes.

My question is if it is reasonable to be losing fat and building muscle at the same time. And if so what can I expect? I'm learning that building muscle can really take a significant number of calories, which doesn't seem to jive with the fat loss.

So what is reasonable to expect? Do I lose fat then build muscle? Or can I do both at the same time?

Currently I am 6'0" and 204lbs as a 33yo male. I started at 218 in November. A dexascan when I was 212 showed me at 34% bodyfat.

If you are new to weight training you will probably experience some body recomp. After that its a bit more difficult and you can find varied information on whether or not it is even possible for more experienced lifters. At some point you will have to focus on bulking or cutting, but suck all you can out of the "noob gains" and continue to lift while losing weight. At least there is a consensus on that.

[Runway37]

So for now, don't worry about it? Later it sounds like it's a question of what you want to do in what time frame kind of thing.

[John Prophet]

no clue what "mapmyfitness" is but 100g seems quite low. When you are trying to lose weight you actually need relatively more protein in order to spare, or to build muscle. It seems backwards but when you are bulking you need relatively less protein because you have so many carbs etc coming in.

taking those dexa number, youd have around 140lbs lean mass....so personally id get at LEAST 140grams protein per day but Id rather err up to more like 180-200.

at 34%, you would be a prime candidate to see some recomping, especially if you havent lifted much before

1690 also seems quite low to me. of course you might get 300 different opinions thrown at you. But if you are doing 6 workouts per week AND on pretty low carbs....what will u do if/when the fat loss slows? gonna go to 1400? freak that lol.

to me it all sounds a bit over aggressive on the calorie cutting aspect. Im guessing you wont be doing too much recomping at such an aggressive rate of cutting. Instead you will be losing fat AND muscle most likely.

I guess one thing u can do is keep a close eye on how much you are losing per week. Aiming for around 1% of your total bodyweight is a decent rule of thumb. if you lose much faster than that, you risk more chance of losing more muscle.

[Runway37]

Thanks for the quick reply.

map my fitness is just a tracking app, owned by unerarmour. The 1690 calories is based upon a 2lb per week weight loss goal. It is also based off of a no exercise day. I'm tracking exercise calories with an apple watch (which seems to estimate way high on weight training, so I modify those by half or so) and calories I burn are more calories I can eat. So yesterday I ended up eating about 1950 calories.

I'll have to check the dexa report for my lean muscle mass. It sounds like I should be looking for a gram of protein per pound of lean muscle mass at least.

[John Prophet]

Thanks for the quick reply.

map my fitness is just a tracking app, owned by unerarmour. The 1690 calories is based upon a 2lb per week weight loss goal. It is also based off of a no exercise day. I'm tracking exercise calories with an apple watch (which seems to estimate way high on weight training, so I modify those by half or so) and calories I burn are more calories I can eat. So yesterday I ended up eating about 1950 calories.

I'll have to check the dexa report for my lean muscle mass. It sounds like I should be looking for a gram of protein per pound of lean muscle mass at least.

1950 sounds way more reasonable to me.

A lot of people aim for 1gram per pound of bodyweight...or I have seen .8g per lb listed as a bare minimum. So u end up with a range of 160-200 using those numbers. and again, if you are cutting you tend to need relatively more protein


In a sense you want to be cutting on the highest calories possible that still lets u lose weight etc. That way you dont have to get down to stupid low calories. and eventually you will probably have to wade into the subject of "diet breaks" when and if your weight loss stalls....or when u just need a break. Some say just set a defecit and stay there forever and drop 100 calories every 10lbs lost.....others say only diet for 12ish weeks and then do some sort of diet break to "reset" the metabolism etc. I dont get too hung up on arguing the specifics.

A few years back i was 259 and hadnt lifted for years and had no plans to get into the gym so i went to some site and ran a calculator and it spit out 2000 calories so thats what I did. I did that for 6 months or so and then I cut it to 1800. Long story short I lost 60lbs in a year and was never really hungry lol. of course i wasnt lifting so thats the catch....I surely lost plenty of muscle


I got back into the gym about a year ago...just swimming at first but then in June i resumed properly with the weights. Even though i was fat i still went into a surplus at first so I could get all my nice muscle memory gains and it worked nicely. I gained like 3 lbs but lost like 7lbs of fat and a few% according to my handheld BIA. The mirror verified it though I still looked gross to me eye lol

So basically i planned to cut of course but I built my calories up first and got my work ethic right and i assume this means my metabolism was popping pretty good. After the surplus period I did a lowish volume one month maintenance phase because I was pretty beat up. I ended up maintaining my weight on 3400 calories...which was a lot and frankly i was tired of eating that much. I couldnt wait to start cutting lol

So i started a cut on Oct 11 at around 2700 cals and I snipped off more cals here and there. I ended that cut on 12-15 and the next morning weighed 228.8. Basically I went into a 2 week diet break/deload where i relaxed my eating quite a bit. Enjoyed some stuff I had cut out etc. I tracked it all of course but I havent added it up yet but I was back up around 3200-3300 on some days etc, maybe 2900 on other days. So a nice relaxed break. All told I gained like 4 ounces lol.

So now i am back cutting as of 12-30. So far its been pretty easy so i guess I will become a believer in taking strategic diet breaks as needed.


Measuring bodyfat is a hazy subject. No great methods exist AFAIK lol. I use handheld BIA every morning when i weigh in. My handheld and the InBody scanner at the gym put me around 30% currently. Then I got a DEXA about a week ago and it shows 23% lol. So who knows

[Runway37]

I did a bit of research on measuring bodyfat before I got the Dexa, and it seems to be the most accurate short of going to a legit research facility. I plan on going back at between 4-6 months to see where I'm at so I can see what has changed and especially how the relationship between body fat and lbm has changed. I have a BIA built into my scale, but I don't know that I've ever paid attention to that number. I've heard there's way too much error and I'm sure I'll psych myself out if I look at it everyday.

So far as diet goes I do an 8/16 fast, eating between 1200-2000, and fasting at other times. I get pretty hungry between 0900-1200, but during the eating period I'm having to pick my foods and eating times carefully in order to get enough calories, just because I feel so full. Under the more conventional 3 meals a day or more, I just end up being hungry more often and overeating. This method makes discipline easier for me.

I'll aim to increase my protein, and stick with calories as it's laid out. The roughly 1900ish seems to make sense given my exercise routines currently. As it is I'm right on target for 2lb a week weight loss.

[xsquid99]

I did a bit of research on measuring bodyfat before I got the Dexa, and it seems to be the most accurate short of getting an autopsy.

^^^ Fixed.

Even Dexa isn't that accurate, and numbers can vary wildly based on hydration levels and other factors. I've seen crazy swings in results (like losing or gaining 5 lbs of muscle mass in a week, which is impossible), which pretty much confirmed to me that they are garbage.

Not sure what the fascination is with everyone wanting a bodyfat percentage number. Nobody walks around with a sign on them telling the world what their bodyfat percentage is, and at the end of the day the only thing that matters is how you perceive your physique when you look in the mirror.

[Grizvok]

^^^ Fixed.

Even Dexa isn't that accurate, and numbers can vary wildly based on hydration levels and other factors. I've seen crazy swings in results (like losing or gaining 5 lbs of muscle mass in a week, which is impossible), which pretty much confirmed to me that they are garbage.

Not sure what the fascination is with everyone wanting a bodyfat percentage number. Nobody walks around with a sign on them telling the world what their bodyfat percentage is, and at the end of the day the only thing that matters is how you perceive your physique when you look in the mirror.

This. Use the mirror. It is your friend.

[Runway37]

Well I suppose people like numbers to see what direction they're going in. But you're absolutely right that perception is the real arbiter.

[xsquid99]

Well I suppose people like numbers to see what direction they're going in. But you're absolutely right that perception is the real arbiter.

The mirror tells you what direction your going in, you don't need to pay $100 for some machine to tell you.

[Runway37]

Should have said people like to have all sorts of evidence about where they're going. And numbers feel like they have something that's beyond fickle perception. Especially when you may not have a good image of yourself. Right now I love jumping on the scale every morning, because most mornings it shows a little bit less. But I do have to make sure I'm not getting so excited about that that I'm undereating at the expense of fitness and muscle just for the sake of losing weight.

Definitely not arguing that you'll know you've gotten better when you can see it in the mirror. I can't quite see it in the mirror yet, but my clothes fit better, which is definitely motivating.

[Tommy W.]

FORGET recomping. You need to concentrate on fat loss. I looked at your pic in your profile. Go with a fairly aggressive deficit, a good Proven beginner weight training Program, up your protein and you’ll MAINTAIN muscle and lose fat. Once you lean out then concentrate on building muscle with a small calorie surplus.

[Runway37]

FORGET recomping. You need to concentrate on fat loss. I looked at your pic in your profile. Go with a fairly aggressive deficit, a good Proven beginner weight training Program, up your protein and you’ll MAINTAIN muscle and lose fat. Once you lean out then concentrate on building muscle with a small calorie surplus.

Understood. I feel like my deficit is fairly aggressive at a 2lb a week goal. My weight training is done under supervision in a group class. I'm aiming for at least 140g protein a day. The challenge with protein is getting varied sources but maintaining a calorie deficit.

[Tommy W.]

Understood. I feel like my deficit is fairly aggressive at a 2lb a week goal. My weight training is done under supervision in a group class. I'm aiming for at least 140g protein a day. The challenge with protein is getting varied sources but maintaining a calorie deficit.

Varied doesn't matter. Whether or not you'll lose 2 lbs a week remains to be seen.If you DO manage 2 lbs a week consistently that's a big deficit and you'll lose the fat fairly quickly which should be your goal and don't be afraid of taking in even more protein as it is muscle sparing and very satiating which will reduce hunger.

Get away from the group classes unless they're using mostly compound exercises

[Runway37]

Varied doesn't matter. Whether or not you'll lose 2 lbs a week remains to be seen.If you DO manage 2 lbs a week consistently that's a big deficit and you'll lose the fat fairly quickly which should be your goal and don't be afraid of taking in even more protein as it is muscle sparing and very satiating which will reduce hunger.

Get away from the group classes unless they're using mostly compound exercises

Yep, lots of compound exercises, barbell, kettlebell based stuff. Squats, deadlifts, swings etc. Usually the first half is dedicated to compound lifts and the second is conditioning, conditioning often including lots of the kettlebell exercises as well. The only cardio equipment in the gym is some airdynes and rowers that are used mostly for warmups and cooldowns. I tried to pick a gym that was weight training focused and would be able to help me do the lifts properly. So far I am on target with 2lbs a week. We'll see how that holds.

I'd heard different information on the protein sources though, that is was a good idea to be getting it from things other than shakes and the like. I'll have to do some looking into it.

Thanks for the help.


ETA:
To maybe illuminate the exercises I'm doing, here is one day that was fairly light

Work up to squat 5 rep max

4x10 Squats at 60% of max

10 min AMRAP
10 KB thrusters
10 KB squats
10 Body weight lunges
10 Pushups
5 Burpees

3x10 Single leg squat to box each leg

about 10 min on exercise bike to close the move ring on my watch

[sunsean]

Yep, lots of compound exercises, barbell, kettlebell based stuff. Squats, deadlifts, swings etc. Usually the first half is dedicated to compound lifts and the second is conditioning, conditioning often including lots of the kettlebell exercises as well. The only cardio equipment in the gym is some airdynes and rowers that are used mostly for warmups and cooldowns. I tried to pick a gym that was weight training focused and would be able to help me do the lifts properly. So far I am on target with 2lbs a week. We'll see how that holds.

I'd heard different information on the protein sources though, that is was a good idea to be getting it from things other than shakes and the like. I'll have to do some looking into it.

Thanks for the help.

Generally you want most of your diet (and macros) to come from real food as opposed to supplements...more satiating and better for your overall health (micronutrients and other things).

Shakes/bars and the like are "supplements" to your diet, nothing wrong with them but you don't want it to be your only source of calories/protein. I generally try stick to 1/day, whether shake, bar, or whatever.

Nothing wrong with the classes if you feel it motivates you. But not necessary for progress, all you need is a decent weight room and a good plan like Fierce 5 (can find it on the workouts forum).

[Runway37]

Lots of good advice in here. Thanks to everyone who has contributed. I do feel like I'm on a good track and this has helped be adjust a few things

I am doing the class because of the motivation, to make sure I'm doing lifts properly, and so I don't get paralysis by analysis about what I should be doing.

[Tommy W.]

Yep, lots of compound exercises, barbell, kettlebell based stuff. Squats, deadlifts, swings etc. Usually the first half is dedicated to compound lifts and the second is conditioning, conditioning often including lots of the kettlebell exercises as well. The only cardio equipment in the gym is some airdynes and rowers that are used mostly for warmups and cooldowns. I tried to pick a gym that was weight training focused and would be able to help me do the lifts properly. So far I am on target with 2lbs a week. We'll see how that holds.

I'd heard different information on the protein sources though, that is was a good idea to be getting it from things other than shakes and the like. I'll have to do some looking into it.

Thanks for the help.


ETA:
To maybe illuminate the exercises I'm doing, here is one day that was fairly light

Work up to squat 5 rep max

4x10 Squats at 60% of max

10 min AMRAP
10 KB thrusters
10 KB squats
10 Body weight lunges
10 Pushups
5 Burpees

3x10 Single leg squat to box each leg

about 10 min on exercise bike to close the move ring on my watch

As much of the protein from food as possible, especially lean meat. The shakes are for supplementation if you're gonna fall short that day.

[John Prophet]

Not sure what the fascination is with everyone wanting a bodyfat percentage number

the only thing weirder than people being fascinated with bodyfat numbers...is people being fascinated with other people being fascinated about bodyfat numbers

Do you know what you weigh? Do you know what you bench? do you know how tall you are? do you know how many calories you eat? do you know how much $$$ you earn in a year?

why is knowing a bodyfat% any different than those things?

What can be measured can be improved