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  1. #1
    Registered User Concubine's Avatar
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    Side Effects of thermogenics

    I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced side effects from thermogenic fat burners. Does having side effects a sign that it's working. My weight loss is going very slow despite dieting, exercising and being on a thermogenic. My side effects include chills, jitters, not being able to concentarte (probably because of the jitters) and worst of all nausea! I'm taking Hot Rox Extreme. Any explainations as to what is causes these side effects?
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  2. #2
    Registered User ChristianBBer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Concubine View Post
    I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced side effects from thermogenic fat burners. Does having side effects a sign that it's working. My weight loss is going very slow despite dieting, exercising and being on a thermogenic. My side effects include chills, jitters, not being able to concentarte (probably because of the jitters) and worst of all nausea! I'm taking Hot Rox Extreme. Any explainations as to what is causes these side effects?
    It's probably the caffeine, its an active ingredient in hot-rox, do you respond well to caffeine ??

    Try a non-caffeine fat burning supplement,
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mt/hydroxycf.html

    If your fat loss has stalled, dont always rely on the supplementation. Try manipulating your macros ( carb, fats protein) in your diet.

    Try carb cycling
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...rb+cycling+101

    Try cycling your calories, have a high day or a low day.
    When you hit a plateau that means your body has become adjusted to the intake. So subsequently, you need to alter your bodies regular intake.
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  3. #3
    Hero Of The Day MAS2208's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about the sides you are having. Unfortunately side effects do not actually mean the product is working, only the possible increased progress you are making while on the product versus while you were not on it can tell you if it is working. To me it just sounds like you are sensitive to stimulants. How are you dosing them? You may want to cut back to 1 dose 2-3 times a day, if you are doing the 2x2 that is recommended. Hot-Rox Extreme does contain caffeine, it is not disclosed how much but it is in there. Do you react this way to caffeine normally? Are you taking in enough calories and water each day? The only other suggestion I can make is to try a stim-free fat burner. I really can not recommend one since I have never used a thermogenic product though, sorry. Just search for stimulant free fat burners and you'll probably find hundreds of threads and numerous polls. Good Luck.
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  4. #4
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Concubine View Post
    Does having side effects a sign that it's working.
    Not necessarily... no.

    Usually it's a sign that you are very sensitive to one (or more) of the ingredients.

    Originally Posted by Concubine View Post
    jitters, not being able to concentarte (probably because of the jitters) and worst of all nausea!
    Typical side effects of caffeine... decrease dosage or discontinue use.
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  5. #5
    Registered User dan7681's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Concubine View Post
    I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced side effects from thermogenic fat burners. Does having side effects a sign that it's working. My weight loss is going very slow despite dieting, exercising and being on a thermogenic. My side effects include chills, jitters, not being able to concentarte (probably because of the jitters) and worst of all nausea! I'm taking Hot Rox Extreme. Any explainations as to what is causes these side effects?
    Some people just don't react well to stimulants. You could try using half dosages if you like.

    Honestly though it's probably in your best interest to use something with low stimulant effects:
    RPN DCP
    Green Tea Extract
    ALCAR
    Fish oil and Sesamin
    CLA
    Raspberry Ketones

    The main thing is to get your diet in order and increase cardio as needed
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  6. #6
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dan7681 View Post
    it's probably in your best interest to use something with low stimulant effects
    ^^^^

    Agreed... I would recommend:

    Carnitine
    SesaGLOW
    Forskolin
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  7. #7
    Registered User rbakous1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Concubine View Post
    I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced side effects from thermogenic fat burners. Does having side effects a sign that it's working. My weight loss is going very slow despite dieting, exercising and being on a thermogenic. My side effects include chills, jitters, not being able to concentarte (probably because of the jitters) and worst of all nausea! I'm taking Hot Rox Extreme. Any explanations as to what is causes these side effects?
    I'm currently taking Hot Rox Extreme myself for about 2 weeks now. It is a very powerful thermogenic. I have been taking them (thermorgenics) for the past 4 months, lipo 6, Xenadrine, ect and my body was "accustomed" to them, so I thought. I am currently taking only 1 pill a day and BSN NO Explode (1 scoop) roughly 8 hours later and I still have some moderate to severe jitters, anxiety, and other side effect. I'm forced to cut down my BSN to 1/2 scoop 8-10 hours after taking Hot Rox. One side effect I'm having is waking up in the middle of the night to urinate. I have noticed some fat loss and I do feel it's better than all the other thermogenics I've taken. You just have to realize that it's a strong stimulant and have to adjust accordingly to it, as I am. BTW I'm 5'10" 160 lbs in good shape. What causes these side effects is the person's timing of consumption, i.e. taking one or more stimulate based products within a brief time span and consuming amounts that are in excess of a person's tolerance. Remember, the directions on the bottle are general directions based on the average person, it doesn't apply to each person, adjust accordingly to fit your tolerance.
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  8. #8
    Registered User Concubine's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MAS2208 View Post
    Sorry to hear about the sides you are having. Unfortunately side effects do not actually mean the product is working, only the possible increased progress you are making while on the product versus while you were not on it can tell you if it is working. To me it just sounds like you are sensitive to stimulants. How are you dosing them? You may want to cut back to 1 dose 2-3 times a day, if you are doing the 2x2 that is recommended. Hot-Rox Extreme does contain caffeine, it is not disclosed how much but it is in there. Do you react this way to caffeine normally? Are you taking in enough calories and water each day? The only other suggestion I can make is to try a stim-free fat burner. I really can not recommend one since I have never used a thermogenic product though, sorry. Just search for stimulant free fat burners and you'll probably find hundreds of threads and numerous polls. Good Luck.
    I'm taking 2 in the morning and then another one in the afternoon. I don't really want to cut down on them though, I'm making slow progress which is better than none so I'll suffer through the side effects if it means eventual success. My intake of water and fluids is always moderate to well, however some days I drastically reduce calories other days I have plently of calories.

    Does a stimulant free fat burner work to a lesser degree? I've always thought that it wouldn't work as well as a stimulant fat burner.

    My goal is to lose 11lbs in 5 weeks so it's not an unrealistic goal. My signature is wrong, since college my weight has gone up to 136lbs and 19% BF!!! I've just been too ashamed to change my sig.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Concubine's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rbakous1 View Post
    I'm currently taking Hot Rox Extreme myself for about 2 weeks now. It is a very powerful thermogenic. I have been taking them (thermorgenics) for the past 4 months, lipo 6, Xenadrine, ect and my body was "accustomed" to them, so I thought. I am currently taking only 1 pill a day and BSN NO Explode (1 scoop) roughly 8 hours later and I still have some moderate to severe jitters, anxiety, and other side effect. I'm forced to cut down my BSN to 1/2 scoop 8-10 hours after taking Hot Rox. One side effect I'm having is waking up in the middle of the night to urinate. I have noticed some fat loss and I do feel it's better than all the other thermogenics I've taken. You just have to realize that it's a strong stimulant and have to adjust accordingly to it, as I am. BTW I'm 5'10" 160 lbs in good shape. What causes these side effects is the person's timing of consumption, i.e. taking one or more stimulate based products within a brief time span and consuming amounts that are in excess of a person's tolerance. Remember, the directions on the bottle are general directions based on the average person, it doesn't apply to each person, adjust accordingly to fit your tolerance.
    What is BSN?
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by Concubine View Post
    I'm taking 2 in the morning and then another one in the afternoon. I don't really want to cut down on them though, I'm making slow progress which is better than none so I'll suffer through the side effects if it means eventual success. My intake of water and fluids is always moderate to well, however some days I drastically reduce calories other days I have plently of calories.

    Does a stimulant free fat burner work to a lesser degree? I've always thought that it wouldn't work as well as a stimulant fat burner.

    My goal is to lose 11lbs in 5 weeks so it's not an unrealistic goal. My signature is wrong, since college my weight has gone up to 136lbs and 19% BF!!! I've just been too ashamed to change my sig.
    Depends but I've personally had better results with stimulants for fat burning then non-stimalant type compounds.

    11 lbs in 5 weeks is a reasonble. Depending on your intensity level you should be hitting cardio about 5 days per week and you need to stay away from cheat meals.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Concubine View Post
    What is BSN?
    It a supplement company. I hear they make decent stuff, but it's rather expensive.
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    Originally Posted by dan7681 View Post
    Some people just don't react well to stimulants. You could try using half dosages if you like.

    Honestly though it's probably in your best interest to use something with low stimulant effects:
    RPN DCP
    Green Tea Extract
    ALCAR
    Fish oil and Sesamin
    CLA
    Raspberry Ketones

    The main thing is to get your diet in order and increase cardio as needed
    I agree with everything on that list except the CLA since the 9,11 and 10,12 isomers effectively cancel one another out since one is a PPARgamma agonist, while one is an antagonist, therefore rendering it pretty much useless.

    Par Deus himself has noted that if the 10,12 isomer was available commercially, stand-alone, it might have merit. However, the literature doesn't stack up to real-world results, I'm afraid. Furthermore, the actual effective dosage is something like 12 g/day or more, which doesn't have the best of health implications.



    Other than at the very least 500-700mg EGCG/day and 6 g/day of fish oil (as you've already alluded to), a sizeable intake of lecithin and EVOO can also augment fat-loss in quite positive way.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Concubine View Post
    What is BSN?
    Sorry,

    BSN NO Explode. It's a pre-workout supplement that also contains caffeine in addition to other stimulants.
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    The worst side effect that I have had is dehydration. You need to look at a normal formula. Ask the moron who recommended the extreme why they would before they knew your tolorence. If used wrong most of these things can be dangerous.
    If you not feeling the burn your not pushing hard enough.

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  15. #15
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    Sorry an easy one to start with is Red Acid. No real caffine and based in natural foods.
    If you not feeling the burn your not pushing hard enough.

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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by cakedonkey View Post
    I agree with everything on that list except the CLA since the 9,11 and 10,12 isomers effectively cancel one another out since one is a PPARgamma agonist, while one is an antagonist, therefore rendering it pretty much useless.

    Par Deus himself has noted that if the 10,12 isomer was available commercially, stand-alone, it might have merit. However, the literature doesn't stack up to real-world results, I'm afraid. Furthermore, the actual effective dosage is something like 12 g/day or more, which doesn't have the best of health implications.



    Other than at the very least 500-700mg EGCG/day and 6 g/day of fish oil (as you've already alluded to), a sizeable intake of lecithin and EVOO can also augment fat-loss in quite positive way.
    X2 I also agree CLA is useless

    AS for carb cycling , I found it to be very very effective, to my amazment I have dropped 2.5% bf in only 15 days while eating extremly clean and often. (I have also slightly increased lean body mass )

    I did 4 days no carb ( very low about 5-8 % of my calories) followed by 1 day high carb, at the begining I was really grumpy and feeling very weak but you stick with it and you see results and regain strength after body adapts , ensure proper glycogen replenishment after workouts also .

    here is the thread on how to get started
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=706139

    Good luck
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by BiggJohn View Post

    11 lbs in 5 weeks is a reasonble. .
    She weighs the same as me. 6 lbs a month is reasonable. 11 lbs in 2 months. That is with reduced cals and cardio and weights.

    The most someone can lose without losing muscle is about 1% of bodyweight each week.
    31-26-36.

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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by terracotta View Post
    The most someone can lose without losing muscle is about 1% of bodyweight each week.
    Depends, weight loss usually isn't linear (i.e. you lose alot at first then your progress slows down). If you jump on diuretics, you can shedd 3-5 lbs in your first week for some people. Limiting carbs and reducing your muscle glycogen levels can also knock off a pound or two rather quickly.

    I typically lose 5-6 lbs dieting the first week when I start up an EC cycle.
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by knightowl View Post
    X2 I also agree CLA is useless

    AS for carb cycling , I found it to be very very effective, to my amazment I have dropped 2.5% bf in only 15 days while eating extremly clean and often. (I have also slightly increased lean body mass )

    I did 4 days no carb ( very low about 5-8 % of my calories) followed by 1 day high carb, at the begining I was really grumpy and feeling very weak but you stick with it and you see results and regain strength after body adapts , ensure proper glycogen replenishment after workouts also .

    here is the thread on how to get started
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=706139

    Good luck

    Not that I believe it, but there was recently a study out of the university of wisconsin that showed CLA effective at 3 g per day.
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    Thumbs down

    Oh, and a little more "reading material" on CLA for the people who still believe in this garbage:


    Daily intake of conjugated linoleic acid-enriched yoghurts: effects on energy metabolism and adipose tissue gene expression in healthy subjects.

    * Nazare JA,
    * de la Perriere AB,
    * Bonnet F,
    * Desage M,
    * Peyrat J,
    * Maitrepierre C,
    * Louche-Pelissier C,
    * Bruzeau J,
    * Goudable J,
    * Lassel T,
    * Vidal H,
    * Laville M.

    Centre de Recherche en Nutrition Humaine de Lyon, Universite Claude Bernard Lyon 1, France.

    Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is a group of positional and geometric isomers of conjugated dienoic derivatives of linoleic acid. The present study was designed to determine whether 14-week CLA supplementation as triacylglycerols (3.76 g) with a 50 : 50 combination of the two main isomers (35 % cis-9, trans-11 and 35 % trans-10, cis-12) added to flavoured yoghurt-like products was able to alter body composition in healthy subjects and to alter the expression of several key adipose tissue genes (PPAR gamma, lipoprotein lipase (LPL), hormone-sensitive lipase (HSL) and uncoupling protein 2 (UCP-2)). Forty-four healthy subjects were randomly assigned to consume daily either a CLA-supplemented yoghurt-like product or a placebo yoghurt for 98 d. There were no significant effects of CLA supplementation on body weight, fat mass or free fat mass. Basal energy expenditure expressed as kg free fat mass increased significantly in the CLA group (123.3 (SEM 2.5) kJ/kg free fat mass per d on day 98 v. 118.7 (SEM 2.3) kJ/kg free fat mass per d on day 0, P = 0.03). PPAR gamma mRNA gene expression increased significantly with CLA supplementation (53 (SEM 20) %, P < 0.01) and a significant reduction in mRNA levels of HSL was observed ( - 42 (SEM 7) %, P = 0.01). The levels of UCP-2 and LPL mRNA were not affected. The present results suggest that a 98 d supplementation diet with a 50 : 50 mixture of the two CLA isomers cis-9, trans-11 and trans-10, cis-12 in a dairy product was unable to alter body composition, although a significant increase in the RMR has been induced. Moreover, changes in mRNA PPAR gamma and HSL in adipose tissue were recorded.

    PMID: 17298695 [PubMed - in process]

    The effects of t10,c12 CLA isomer compared with c9,t11 CLA isomer on lipid metabolism and body composition in hamsters.

    * Bissonauth V,
    * Chouinard Y,
    * Marin J,
    * Leblanc N,
    * Richard D,
    * Jacques H.

    Department of Food Science and Nutrition, Laval University, Quebec, Canada.

    The objective of the present study was to examine the effects of two different isomers of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), c9,t11 CLA and t10,c12 CLA, compared with linoleic acid (LA) used as control, on body composition, lipoprotein profile, hepatic lipids and fecal fat content in hamsters. Animals were assigned to the three diet groups (n=15) during 28 days. The diet was composed of 2% of the experimental fat, and throughout the experimental protocol, the hamsters experienced similar food intake. No significant differences were noted in body weight gain among the three diet groups. However, the t10,c12 CLA-fed animals showed higher low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) concentrations (0.9+/-0.1 mmol/L) than those who ingested either LA (0.6+/-0.1 mmol/L) or c9,t11 CLA isomer (0.7+/-0.1 mmol/L), although the t10,c12 CLA consumption decreased hepatic cholesterol and triglycerides and increased fecal fat content compared with the other two groups. Under the present experimental conditions, the dietary c9,t11 CLA isomer showed no positive beneficial effect on plasma lipids. Furthermore, the t10,c12 CLA isomer induced undesirable higher LDL-C, although it reduced hepatic lipids and fat digestibility in hamsters.

    PMID: 16481156 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    The effect of 6 months supplementation with conjugated linoleic acid on insulin resistance in overweight and obese.

    * Syvertsen C,
    * Halse J,
    * Hoivik HO,
    * Gaullier JM,
    * Nurminiemi M,
    * Kristiansen K,
    * Einerhand A,
    * O'shea M,
    * Gudmundsen O.

    1Scandinavian Clinical Research AS, Kjeller, Norway.

    Background:Contradicting results have been published regarding the effect of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) on insulin resistance. However, only a few studies have used the euglycemic hyperinsulinemic clamp method, which is considered the standard for measuring insulin resistance.Objective:To evaluate if CLA as a mixture of the main isomers trans-10 cis-12 and cis-9 trans-11 affects the insulin resistance in healthy overweight and obese male and female adults.Design:The main study was a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial with change in body composition as primary end point comprising 118 subjects receiving supplementation with either placebo (olive oil) or CLA (Clarinol) for 6 months. A sub-population of 49 subjects agreed additionally to participate in an euglycemic hyperinsulinemic clamp study at baseline and after 6 months of supplementation with study drug. The primary outcome was the change in glucose uptake (M) as measured by the hyperinsulinemic euglycemic glucose clamp method. Secondary outcomes were the correlates between insulin resistance and changes in body composition or blood chemistry parameters. Forty-one subjects completed the clamp test at both time points.Results:The median M of the CLA group was 11.0 mg min(-1) lean body mass (lbm)(-1) (n=24) at baseline, 10.3 mg min(-1) lbm(-1) (n=24) after 6 months, and the median difference was +0.21 mg min(-1) lbm(-1) (n=24). The median M of placebo group was 8.4 mg min(-1) lbm(-1) at baseline and 9.3 mg min(-1) lbm(-1) after 6 months and the median difference was -0.22 mg min(-1) lbm(-1) (n=17). No significant (P<0.05) differences were found within groups or between groups. Likewise, the glucose uptake insulin concentration ratio during clamp (M/I) was independent of treatment and time. Homeostasis model assessment (HOMA) and quantitative insulin sensitivity check index derived from fasting glucose and insulin were also independent of treatment and time, and HOMA for the clamp population (n=49) corresponded well with HOMA for the per protocol population (n=83). Correlation analysis showed that changes in M were inversely correlated to changes in glucohemoglobin (P=0.002), but did not correlate with changes in either glucose, insulin, insulin c-peptide, leptin, adiponectin or percent body fat.Conclusions:CLA does not affect glucose metabolism or insulin sensitivity in a population of overweight or obese volunteers. International Journal of Obesity advance online publication, 10 October 2006; doi:10.1038/sj.ijo.0803482.

    PMID: 17031391 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]


    So there you have it. Either believe the most recent literature, or megadose the stuff and pray that it works.
    Last edited by cakedonkey; 03-10-2007 at 02:05 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Concubine View Post
    I'm taking 2 in the morning and then another one in the afternoon. I don't really want to cut down on them though, I'm making slow progress which is better than none so I'll suffer through the side effects if it means eventual success. My intake of water and fluids is always moderate to well, however some days I drastically reduce calories other days I have plently of calories.

    Does a stimulant free fat burner work to a lesser degree? I've always thought that it wouldn't work as well as a stimulant fat burner.
    I think your best bet would be to drop dosage to 1 about 30 minutes before your workout and another at least 5-6 hours before or after that depending on what time of the day to workout. Maybe the sides will be more bearable evening out and spreading out the dosage.
    Also, when it comes to weight loss I am not a huge proponent of calorie cycling, increasing and reducing them from day to day. Calculate your daily needs with one of the calculators here and do your best to stick to that - a deficit of 750 cals per day will cause you to drop about 1lb every 5 days. Monitoring your diet and workouts are key.
    As far as the stim. free fat burners people tend to think they work as well they just fore go that boost you need while on a reduced calorie diet, a big help with workouts when you are tired. Designer's Melting Point gets alot of hype for stim free.
    What is your cardio like BTW? Maybe changing things up a bit will help out too. Mix in 2-3 days of HIIT along with your regular cardio, intervals have always helped me out when dropping a few pounds for the beach.

    Best of luck.
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