Big delts without side raises?

[HeMB]

I'd like to read some testimonials/experiences on whether is it possible to have decent shoulders without side raises; especially in the long run.

Solely from ohp and other exercises

[Garage Rat]

I did a lot of behind the neck presses in the day and had fairly decent delts.

[supramax]

I'd like to read some testimonials/experiences on whether is it possible to have decent shoulders without side raises; especially in the long run.

Solely from ohp and other exercises

I'm not a bodybuilder and I don't do laterals, but my shoulders are pretty muscular all the way around. I suggest dips, high pulls and power cleans and Arnold presses that evolve into Arnold push presses when the weight gets too heavy for strict.

[HeMB]

I did a lot of behind the neck presses in the day and had fairly decent delts.

I'm not a bodybuilder and I don't do laterals, but my shoulders are pretty muscular all the way around. I suggest dips, high pulls and power cleans and Arnold presses that evolve into Arnold push presses when the weight gets too heavy for strict.

Ahh, these are some good suggestions.

Arnold presses may be a novel thing to try ( have you noticed more side delt activation compared to OHP ?)


The main reason for the unwillingness to do side raises though is that they smash my shoulders in a bad way..( heavy, light weight, various form tweaks)
Compounds seem to stabilize them better.

Not sure how behind the necks would feel tho.

[supramax]

Ahh, these are some good suggestions.

Arnold presses may be a novel thing to try ( have you noticed more side delt activation compared to OHP ?)...

I'd like to answer you (right after doing the exercise), but I haven't recovered enough to do my scheduled workout today. The big bitch with the way I lift is longer recovery time.

[EndoToMeso]

Ahh, these are some good suggestions.

Arnold presses may be a novel thing to try ( have you noticed more side delt activation compared to OHP ?)


The main reason for the unwillingness to do side raises though is that they smash my shoulders in a bad way..( heavy, light weight, various form tweaks)
Compounds seem to stabilize them better.

Not sure how behind the necks would feel tho.

I'm having the same problems. Try fixing your scapula downward rotation syndrome, if u have it.

[BenMcLeodNZ]

Var raises or similar are how the guys with big shoulders train.

[SuffolkPunch]

OHPs do train lateral delts to some degree. High pulls or upright rows would probably help if you really don't want to do laterals. Or try laterals with cables = much better.

[supramax]

Var raises or similar are how the guys with big shoulders train.

I already told him how the guys with big shoulders train!

What's a Var raise?

[bishonen]

Behind the neck press, Sots press and snatch grip Sots press along with standing snatch grip behind the neck press, aka, Klokov press. I also do Smith machine high incline behind the neck press. Also second the recommendation of high pulls.

[HeMB]

Var raises or similar are how the guys with big shoulders train.

you mean bar raises? and plate raises maybe?

[Heisman2]

Be careful with anything behind the neck if you already have shoulder issues as some people don't have the mobility for this. Agreed with cable laterals if you haven't tried them.

[air2fakie]

Be careful with anything behind the neck if you already have shoulder issues as some people don't have the mobility for this.

Same for the upright rows mentioned above as they give some ppl problems too, esp with certain grip widths.

[PurmaBulker1984]

To keep external rotation, bend forward and do the bent arm bro lateral raises. It will work medical, rear and traps but protect the ac joint.

[BenMcLeodNZ]

you mean bar raises? and plate raises maybe?

An a var, of course, haha.

[SuffolkPunch]

*cough*

[HeMB]

An a var, of course, haha.

Oh well

[backinthegymbro]

Lateral raises are my favorite, and the reason i get complimented on my delts often. Why don't you want to do them op?
Form is most important though. I see everyone do them wrong.

Delts after only 6 months of lifting despite on a cut.

Spoiler!

The key is to twist your hands as soon as you come up so that your pinky ends up higher than your thumb at the top. Like you're pouring water out of a pitcher.
You also have to go really high with the dumbbells, higher than your head.

[HeMB]

To keep external rotation, bend forward and do the bent arm bro lateral raises. It will work medical, rear and traps but protect the ac joint.

How much of a forward lean do you suggest?

I have done them with a very slight lean, like 10deg, and no difference in terms of discomfort

[HeMB]

Lateral raises are my favorite, and the reason i get complimented on my delts often. Why don't you want to do them op?
Form is most important though. I see everyone do them wrong.

Delts after only 6 months of lifting despite on a cut.

Spoiler!

I already said - I get all kinds of shoulder pain from them.


P.s.mirin those delts
P.p.s after your edit about the form tips,... no offense brah but that is a recipe for the impingement. Literally everything wrong compared to the general consensus of proper form.

[backinthegymbro]

I already said - I get all kinds of shoulder pain from them.

Sufficient warm ups and working on your mobility (stretching), might help you over come the pain.
However if you absolutely can't do them, i would recommend the Arnold press with dumbbells.
It's a twisting motion that will work the side delts as well.

P.p.s after your edit about the form tips,... no offense brah but that is a recipe for the impingement. Literally everything wrong compared to the general consensus of proper form.

They don't hurt my shoulders at all going that high. And it only makes sense to go higher than parallel to the floor.
The shoulders still get activated when you raise them higher, it's the same as doing an OHP where you push them up.
But to each their own. You gotta do what works for you. Doing lat raises Arnold style has been one of the exercises that helped me the most.

[PurmaBulker1984]

How much of a forward lean do you suggest?

I have done them with a very slight lean, like 10deg, and no difference in terms of discomfort

45 degrees probably. Use plenty of momentum and traps to move the weight. Medial delts are probably a secondary muscle but get plenty of work.

This it's probably the closest thing I could find online. https://youtu.be/9RWuTCXkHyw

I do them standing.

[jk202]

Give these a try. You can do these in a more externally rotated position which should feel better, maybe not, worth a try. You can also do them with cables like suffolk said, which is a lot better imo

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3xVWLLjgCt/

[HeMB]

45 degrees probably. Use plenty of momentum and traps to move the weight. Medial delts are probably a secondary muscle but get plenty of work.

This it's probably the closest thing I could find online. https://youtu.be/9RWuTCXkHyw

I do them standing.

never thought about this. Thanks for suggestion.

[Gxp23]

Sufficient warm ups and working on your mobility (stretching), might help you over come the pain.
However if you absolutely can't do them, i would recommend the Arnold press with dumbbells.
It's a twisting motion that will work the side delts as well.

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/vTV7dfv7/ll.png[/]





They don't hurt my shoulders at all going that high. And it only makes sense to go higher than parallel to the floor.
The shoulders still get activated when you raise them higher, it's the same as doing an OHP where you push them up.
But to each their own. You gotta do what works for you. Doing lat raises Arnold style has been one of the exercises that helped me the most.

Wish I could do them that way as my medial/shoulder in general needs major attention, but...impingement on both (yes both) shoulders...they would destroy me.

I enjoy cable Y raises and cross body upright cable rows (youtube them).

As for leaning forward, like mentioned 45 degrees but you can always set an incline up and brace yourself against it while again, using cables as well.

[dazitmayn]

rarely ever do them except for giggles, or might just throw them in randomly for 3 weeks

don't really have a preference, DBs, cables, actually I like banded ones as they provide more resistance at the part of the movement where you want more resistance

[EliKoehn]

I'd like to read some testimonials/experiences on whether is it possible to have decent shoulders without side raises; especially in the long run.

Solely from ohp and other exercises

Lateral raises are about the only shoulder-specific exercise I have ever done consistently and long-term, and I'm pleased with my shoulders. I have done them two or three times a week for about five years. Shoulder development has always come a little easier to me though (likely from other compounds to which they're ancillary), unlike, say, my relatively underdeveloped quads or triceps.

Anyway, for whatever my anecdotal experience is worth, I've never regularly done OHPs, upright rows, or military presses and my shoulders are one of my stronger and more developed groups. (I shouldn't be neglecting them though.) That seems to be pretty much only from lateral raises and whatever shoulder involvement I have in the other basic compounds.