Roe v. Wade

[CalmWind]

Those words were written by a man who held slaves, and continued to hold slaves after that, and enthusiastically signed by many other slave-holders. This fundamental contradiction between stated principles and actions led to the civil war and many other kinds of conflicts in the United States in the years following.

I'm reminded of the conversation between Dubya and Putin, where he said he wished Russia would get some more freedom.
"Like you have brought to Iraq?" asked Putin.
"Exactly," said Dubya.
"You can keep it."

Rights without responsibilities is very adolescent.

America. LOL.

The Founding Fathers were forced to tolerate slavery. Yes, some of them had slaves, but they treated them humanely and were in fact, opposed to it as they thought it was immoral. George Washington, for example, was opposed to slavery, but he owned slaves... however he was famous for being good to them, treating them very well.


The country was being birthed and could not deal with that sort of civil war, shortly after winning the Revolutionary war.

They had no choice but to kick the can down the road, and accomplish the bigger task of forming the most free nation the world had ever seen.

[notorius1]

Rights without responsibilities is very adolescent.

America. LOL.

How does anyone think it a responsible move to have a kid that you know you do not want? Thats the most retarded thing ive ever heard of. I guess someone forgot to tell the anti abortionists that people have the freedom to choose when to become parents.

How is it a responsible move to force the burden onto the taxpayers if/when abortion becomes illegal?


Being against abortion makes zero sense.

[PlanoLifter]

Once you say that, liberals will do more fear mongering and say that women will start having back alley abortions or use coat hangers.

Except that seems to be exactly what happens. If you have evidence to the contrary then by all means please present it. In the meanwhile, there is this article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709326/

Some points from the article:

The same correlation appears when a given country tightens or relaxes its abortion law. In Romania, for example, where abortion was available upon request until 1966, the abortion mortality ratio was 20 per 100,000 live births in 1960. New legal restrictions were imposed in 1966, and by 1989 the ratio reached 148 deaths per 100,000 live births. The restrictions were reversed in 1989, and within a year the ratio dropped to 68 of 100,000 live births; by 2002 it was as low as 9 deaths per 100,000 births (Figure 3). Similarly, in South Africa, after abortion became legal and available on request in 1997, abortion-related infection decreased by 52%, and the abortion mortality ratio from 1998 to 2001 dropped by 91% from its 1994 level.6

And here's how unsafe abortions in the absence of legal abortion may be performed:

Methods of unsafe abortion include drinking toxic fluids such as turpentine, bleach, or drinkable concoctions mixed with livestock manure. Other methods involve inflicting direct injury to the vagina or elsewhere—for example, inserting herbal preparations into the vagina or cervix; placing a foreign body such as a twig, coat hanger, or chicken bone into the uterus; or placing inappropriate medication into the vagina or rectum. Unskilled providers also improperly perform dilation and curettage in unhygienic settings, causing uterine perforations and infections. Methods of external injury are also used, such as jumping from the top of stairs or a roof, or inflicting blunt trauma to the abdomen

[sveltegoddess]

if the infant would be kept living and breathing, then why would it be resuscitated? literally nowhere in your statement does it describe giving birth to a live, healthy baby, and then later killing it. there's a fundamental step thats not being described here.

it sounds like the abortion would occur before birth.

i dont support this, i support the viability test under current law, but i really dont like twisting words around to try to make something sound different than it really is. obviously if a live healthy baby is birthed it wouldnt need resuscitating. there's something not being explained here.

The law is that a full term, healthy, viable infant can be aborted on the day of its birth. Yes, they softened the language to fool people like you. This is why its hard to believe you are a "lawyah."

Are you really that easily fooled?

But you are also the guy that said you are ok with ****philia as long as you can ignore it and it doesnt affect you.

You are completely morally bankrupt, and a disgrace to the law profession.

[BFast55]

Except that seems to be exactly what happens. If you have evidence to the contrary then by all means please present it. In the meanwhile, there is this article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709326/

Some points from the article:



And here's how unsafe abortions in the absence of legal abortion may be performed:

No offense but do you honestly think we are supposed to assume the figures in 1966 Romania were legit. Seeing as figures under communist rule are always proven to be reliable and whatnot. Plus it relies on correlation, so add logical fallacy to that. Jus sayin

[AriGhold]

I’d love to see some conservatives ITT volunteer to adopt these babies if they want abortion outlawed so badly

[Tears]

I’d love to see some conservatives ITT volunteer to adopt these babies if they want abortion outlawed so badly

I'll adopt some potentially aborted babies when you house illegal migrants.

Funny how you want to solve abortion issues by forcing the responsibility on conservatives.

[sveltegoddess]

I’d love to see some conservatives ITT volunteer to adopt these babies if they want abortion outlawed so badly

Are you implying its farfetched for people to adopt babies? Several relatives of mine have adopted. I grew up with an adopted sibling. So many people are dying to adopt.

If this doesnt awaken people to the evils of the democrat party nothing will.

Brb let me murder a healthy baby and fukk off all the people lined up to take it in.

[PlanoLifter]

No offense but do you honestly think we are supposed to assume the figures in 1966 Romania were legit. Seeing as figures under communist rule are always proven to be reliable and whatnot. Plus it relies on correlation, so add logical fallacy to that. Jus sayin

No offence taken. I think the take away is that criminalizing abortion will lead to black market abortion and to women trying to perform abortion themselves. That was the point. Whether the Romanian figures accurately reflect what would happen here I don’t know, but before roe vs wade abortions were happening in this country and women were trying to self abort.

[PlanoLifter]

Are you implying its farfetched for people to adopt babies? Several relatives of mine have adopted. I grew up with an adopted sibling. So many people are dying to adopt.

If this doesnt awaken people to the evils of the democrat party nothing will.

Brb let me murder a healthy baby and fukk off all the people lined up to take it in.

Adoption is a reasonable option for those who want to carry the baby to term and then give it up. But I find it morally bankrupt to force a woman to carry to term when she doesn’t want to based on nothing more than feels.

[ohiostate124]

I’d love to see some conservatives ITT volunteer to adopt these babies if they want abortion outlawed so badly

I'll adopt some potentially aborted babies when you house illegal migrants.

Funny how you want to solve abortion issues by forcing the responsibility on conservatives.

Rekt

[sveltegoddess]

Adoption is a reasonable option for those who want to carry the baby to term and then give it up. But I find it morally bankrupt to force a woman to carry to term when she doesn’t want to based on nothing more than feels.

With no restrictions? Any woman in any scenario can decide on a moments notice to abort? What about a married woman 9 months pregnant having a bad day, suddenly within 10 minutes showing up at a clinic...you dont believe in a cooling off period? Educating her where her baby is at developmentally? Maybe seeing if she needs some assistance or counseling? Or we should jump straight to ripping it out.l?

[PlanoLifter]

With no restrictions? Any woman in any scenario can decide on a moments notice to abort? What about a married woman 9 months pregnant having a bad day, suddenly within 10 minutes showing up at a clinic...you dont believe in a cooling off period? Educating her where her baby is at developmentally? Maybe seeing if she needs some assistance or counseling? Or we should jump straight to ripping it out.l?

I can’t remember if I mentioned it ITT or not but, no, not with no restrictions. I think the N.Y. and VA laws go too far. I think any time in the first and perhaps even second trimester is reasonable and no counselling should be required during that period.

[AriGhold]

I'll adopt some potentially aborted babies when you house illegal migrants.

Funny how you want to solve abortion issues by forcing the responsibility on conservatives.

There isn’t an abortion issue. It’s legal, it will stay legal. Your feelz shouldn’t impact what a woman wants to do with their body.

Like it or not, abortion keeps mothers incapable of or unwilling to raising children from doing so. It lowers crime. Reduces poverty. It makes society better. You want to increase taxpayer spending on social welfare? Make abortion illegal.

[sveltegoddess]

I can’t remember if I mentioned it ITT or not but, no, not with no restrictions. I think the N.Y. and VA laws go too far. I think any time in the first and perhaps even second trimester is reasonable and no counselling should be required during that period.

That sounds reasonable. I would still recommend such people to adopt out, or have the baby and make it work somehow. Or be extra careful in the first place. The lasting effects of having an abortion are downplayed imo. People should be fully informed before doing it and shouldnt do it out of pressure. Abortion is much too normalized. It should be rare.

[sandaltan]

The law is that a full term, healthy, viable infant can be aborted on the day of its birth. Yes, they softened the language to fool people like you. This is why its hard to believe you are a "lawyah."

Are you really that easily fooled?

But you are also the guy that said you are ok with ****philia as long as you can ignore it and it doesnt affect you.

You are completely morally bankrupt, and a disgrace to the law profession.

sick virtue signalling bro-ette. strong SJW bro-lady.

and i never actually said any of that stuff you said i said. you just made it up, like a liar. please feel free to cite to where i said im ok with p-e-d-o, unless of course youre just full of sh*t

lastly, still nobody has pointed out where in the law it says the mother can give birth to a baby and then later abort it. please feel free to cite to the portion of law that states this, unless of course youre once again full of sh*t and making up lies, like a liar.

[iifymbro]

With no restrictions? Any woman in any scenario can decide on a moments notice to abort? What about a married woman 9 months pregnant having a bad day, suddenly within 10 minutes showing up at a clinic...you dont believe in a cooling off period? Educating her where her baby is at developmentally? Maybe seeing if she needs some assistance or counseling? Or we should jump straight to ripping it out.l?

nah bro, see we need a week long waiting period for gun purchases, but women should be able to wander into a clinic whenever and have her baby's spine broken and skull crushed because she decided she doesn't want it anymore.

[sveltegoddess]

sick virtue signalling bro. strong SJW bro.

and i never actually said any of that stuff you said i said. you just made it up, like a liar.

lastly, nobody has yet to point out where in the law the mother can give birth to a baby and then later abort it. please feel free to cite to the law that states this.

Wrong.

This is you: If people are having sex with kids, if I dont see it....who cares? It doesnt affect me! Just ignore it! Let people do what they want as long as Im not involved! Why care?!

[PlanoLifter]

That sounds reasonable. I would still recommend such people to adopt out, or have the baby and make it work somehow. Or be extra careful in the first place. The lasting effects of having an abortion are downplayed imo. People should be fully informed before doing it and shouldnt do it out of pressure. Abortion is much too normalized. It should be rare.

Yes it should be more rare than it is. We clearly need better sex education and even free access to contraception. Neither of these will eliminate the need for abortion but can hopefully make it more rare. And to expand on my statement about counselling. I think counselling should be offered but should not be mandatory.

I know two women who have had abortions in their early twenties. Neither relished it. Neither was happy about having the procedure performed. Both now have children of their own and both say that having the abortion was the right thing at the right time, for them.

[sveltegoddess]

sick virtue signalling bro-ette. strong SJW bro-lady.

and i never actually said any of that stuff you said i said. you just made it up, like a liar. please feel free to cite to where i said im ok with p-e-d-o, unless of course youre just full of sh*t

lastly, still nobody has pointed out where in the law it says the mother can give birth to a baby and then later abort it. please feel free to cite to the portion of law that states this, unless of course youre once again full of sh*t and making up lies, like a liar.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2...ds-bill-allow/

[sandaltan]

Wrong.

This is you: If people are having sex with kids, if I dont see it....who cares? It doesnt affect me! Just ignore it! Let people do what they want as long as Im not involved! Why care?!

no, thats literally something you just typed yourself you fking liar. stfu and go plz, or cite to an actual quote of mine. stop making up quotes and attributing them to others - it makes you look stupid.

also sick generic link to the article instead of pointing out the actual language you're talking about. are you too lazy to actually find it or does it not exist?

[Ikeman83]

Libs overplayed their hand on this so hard. LOL

[sveltegoddess]

no, thats literally something you just typed yourself you fking liar. stfu and go plz, or cite to an actual quote of mine. stop making up quotes and attributing them to others - it makes you look stupid.

also sick generic link to the article instead of pointing out the actual language you're talking about. are you too lazy to actually find it or does it not exist?

I cant be bothered now to dig up your quote. I think it was in the thread about the tranny boy though.

[sandaltan]

I cant be bothered now to dig up your quote. I think it was in the thread about the tranny boy though.

oh, okay. i guess you cant be bothered now. lazy af

[sandaltan]

No bro, you said you are fine with all that chit. Desmond the little 11 year old and all that you said you were cool with. As long as it doesn't affect you, you said you are ok with it.

plz quote me waffles, because i guarantee you i never said i was ok with pe-do. i may have said a kid dancing didnt affect my life, but then again thats not actually pe-do-phile, now is it?

[sandaltan]

Nancypants, you are ok with Desmond being photographed with a naked adult and dancing for a bunch of gays. that is pretty sick.

i dont know who desmond is or who was naked or what the deal was. a kid dancing on a bar (even a gay bar!) is not pe-do-philia no matter how you try to spin it. pe-do-phile is an adult in a sexual relationship with a kid, and nobody in their right mind would be ok with that. a kid taking pics with a naked adult is also not ok, although again, thats not exactly pe-do-phile either.

definitions matter.

[sveltegoddess]

oh, okay. i guess you cant be bothered now. lazy af

Not lazy but Im on a mobile atm with slow connection. Took me long enough to dig up this thread. This is a busy forum. I will dig it up when Im on a faster connection.

[sandaltan]

oh look at little nancypants backpedal on Desmond taking pics with naked adults as being ok. Nice to see you change your views. Even if things do not affect you, you certainly should care what goes on in your country and community. You previously stating otherwise was rather despicable.

pfffff get outta here with your virtue signalling SJW morality screeching. and still no actual quotes to attribute to me. my views are unchanged. its nice to know you guys consider dancing on a bar to be pe-do-philia. i dont, and neither does anyone else with a brain. theres a big difference between dancing on a bar and actual pe-do-philia and you (hopefully) know it.

[Tears]

Like it or not, abortion keeps mothers incapable of or unwilling to raising children from doing so. It lowers crime. Reduces poverty. It makes society better. You want to increase taxpayer spending on social welfare? Make abortion illegal.

Why the **** are they incapable or unwilling to raise children?

Abortion reduces poverty and makes society better?

[sveltegoddess]

pfffff get outta here with your virtue signalling SJW morality.

Yes, thanks. Im virtue signalling in all the ways you leftists are pushing destruction of society. To you its virtuous to look the other way when children are sexualized, to provide needles and drugs to addicts, and abort a baby about to be born. You reeee at anyone attempting to hold society together. You are living in crazy land.

Me: I dont think murdering a baby is good.
You: oooooh SJW over here!

Also you: ****philia? Doesnt affect me? I dont care!

There is a special place in hell for people like you.